The Queen of Hyrule and the Origins of Ganondorf (Theory)

[Fraxinus]

There is also the fact that Hyrule Historia has a quote from the person who designed Demise who says Demise was created to intentionally resemble Ganon/Ganondorf.

That's such a shallow design choice considering Demise was implied to look different to all who saw him. Groose said something that made it pretty apparent he saw something vastly different than Link/the player did. And saying what Link/we saw is the objective appearance is absolutely a waste of a strange concept like that, and it's totally pointless to even say he looked different to each person if there was an "objective" form only seen by Link in that he resembled Ganondorf run over by a steam roller and set on fire. Sounds like an effortless attempt to connect Demise specifically to Ganon in his allegedly "fluid" appearence, but that doesn't mean his other appearances didn't resemble something or someone else also depicted in the series as an antagonist.

Also, RE: light force, it's possible it refers to the essence of Hylia in the case of the force within Princess Zelda and therefore may or may not mean those who seek her out for her life in that regard could be linked to whatever curse set in motion by Demise. Ghirahim sought Zelda out for the same reason. Bellum arguably wanted Tetra for her life/light force as well. There's something specifically unique about the essence within the Hyrulean royal bloodline and that would supposedly be its link to Hylia.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

That's such a shallow design choice considering Demise was implied to look different to all who saw him. Groose said something that made it pretty apparent he saw something vastly different than Link/the player did. And saying what Link/we saw is the objective appearance is absolutely a waste of a strange concept like that, and it's totally pointless to even say he looked different to each person if there was an "objective" form only seen by Link in that he resembled Ganondorf run over by a steam roller and set on fire. Sounds like an effortless attempt to connect Demise specifically to Ganon in his allegedly "fluid" appearence, but that doesn't mean his other appearances didn't resemble something or someone else also depicted in the series as an antagonist.

This is possible, but lately I've found the Japanese text of the games to be very interesting, because oftentimes the English translations turn out different. For example, the Japanese version of the hate curse itself suggests that the hatred cycle he is telling Link about is something that's already happened before in the past, and will continue to occur. Essientially, he may not be the first Demon King to have existed.

Now, if the Japanese text also coincides with the English translation that states Demise appears differently to all who lays eyes on him, and in each epoch, that's probably a superstition in the form of a legend: the people of the past attributed every past evil to Demise although he is not the same being (but does share the same Hate Curse).

I'll probably look more into this tonight, because I recall coming across a full compilation of the Japanese text in Skyward Sword that someone translated.

 

[Pockets]

This theory also assumes that Zelda could be a Lesbian.

 

[Fierce_Deity]

Now this next thing is verrrrry far fetched. It is my theory on the origin of Ganondorf. (Don’t judge me XD)
So let‘s say that a male Gerudo is born right, just your average Gerudo, not having any evil intent or anything, maybe even good. And let’s just say that through the fame of their birth, a Zelda just so happens to fall in love with this male Gerudo, and they decide to have a child, and you know what’s born? Ganondorf himself. Now, this may explain why Ganondorf has powers. Do you see the female Gerudo casting spells? No. They wield spears and rely on groups for protection, so we can assume that he would not have gained powers from that hereditary line, but from Zelda’s! I mean. Come on, she is of the blood of the goddess, that screams power. But why would Ganondorf use these powers for evil? The answer is... Repression. He was shunned for being different. For being the spawn of Gerudo and the Royal Family. So through his repression he has grown distant from his family and seeks the power to be known, to gain the same fame his father had. So he starts dwelling in dark magic. And, he is able to use magic due to his mothers power. And this may also explain how he is in the possession of the piece of power.

Okay. Thanks for attending my Ted Talk. Just wanted to throw my opinion out there.

It's stated in game that Koume/Kotake/Twinrova are the "surrogate" mother(s) of Ganondorf. The father is a mystery, but it's also stated in game that Gerudo females venture out to Hyrule in search of men. So the father could be just any one.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Twins? Or, triplets?
Would they, in your opinion, share the soul, or would they house different goddesses?

 

[PokaLink]

He hated the gods, and he said his reincarnation would have a lust for the Triforce.

Did he actually say this? Haven't played the game in awhile but the wiki says the quote is just:
"Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again! Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!" — Demise

For Demise's constant reincarnation to be a good concept it would be kind of lame for him to only have one incarnation, ie. Ganondorf.

I feel like Malladus for sure is a reincarnation (as he's the only other villain referred to as "demon king"), and he wasn't trying to directly get the Triforce as far as we are aware. It's also possible some of the other big bad villains that become essentially pseudo-gods are as well (Vaati, Bellum).

I feel like the biggest indicator of a Demise reincarnation is a desire for world domination, and some actual capability to do it (why I don't think OoS and OoA villains, Zant and some other's aren't all that likely to be reincarnations). That paired with Link and Zelda always being destined to attempt to stop him.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Did he actually say this? Haven't played the game in awhile but the wiki says the quote is just:
"Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again! Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!" — Demise

For Demise's constant reincarnation to be a good concept it would be kind of lame for him to only have one incarnation, ie. Ganondorf.

I feel like Malladus for sure is a reincarnation (as he's the only other villain referred to as "demon king"), and he wasn't trying to directly get the Triforce as far as we are aware. It's also possible some of the other big bad villains that become essentially pseudo-gods are as well (Vaati, Bellum).

I feel like the biggest indicator of a Demise reincarnation is a desire for world domination, and some actual capability to do it (why I don't think OoS and OoA villains, Zant and some other's aren't all that likely to be reincarnations). That paired with Link and Zelda always being destined to attempt to stop him.

"The hate for the gods that has boiled in my veins... You will taste all of it in the bite of my blade." - Demise

"...It won't be long now. At last, the almighty power I've sought for millennia... I will take the Triforce for my own...
And the world shall be under my foot
for eternity!" - Demise

He doesn't outright say it, but from these quotes we can piece together that his hatred is for the gods and he has a lust for the Triforce. Plus Demise's whole goal through the entire game was to get the Triforce.

 

[Pen]

For example, the Japanese version of the hate curse itself suggests that the hatred cycle he is telling Link about is something that's already happened before in the past, and will continue to occur. Essientially, he may not be the first Demon King to have existed.

That's very interesting since it's obvious that Demise creates the curse at that very moment in Skyward Sword, so it shouldn't have been created before that. It is known though that Demise has supposedly conquered time itself somehow, so with that in mind it still makes sense that Demise creates the hate curse in Skyward Sword, but the curse affects the land both in the future and in the past. I like this idea since it also gives Nintendo some leeway to make Zelda games that take place before Skyward Sword and can still have antagonists that are reincarnated (or should I say preincarnated) from Demise's hatred.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

That's very interesting since it's obvious that Demise creates the curse at that very moment in Skyward Sword, so it shouldn't have been created before that. It is known though that Demise has supposedly conquered time itself somehow, so with that in mind it still makes sense that Demise creates the hate curse in Skyward Sword, but the curse affects the land both in the future and in the past. I like this idea since it also gives Nintendo some leeway to make Zelda games that take place before Skyward Sword and can still have antagonists that are reincarnated (or should I say preincarnated) from Demise's hatred.

Well no, it's more like the curse is already in place and he is simply invoking it with his dying breath. He was in no shape at the end to exert power to place an eternal curse. He also wasn't at his peak power, he probably hadn't even scratched the surface of his power when Link fought him - for context, I'd say Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power was slightly more powerful than Demise in the final battle of Skyward Sword.

 

[Pen]

Well no, it's more like the curse is already in place and he is simply invoking it with his dying breath. He was in no shape at the end to exert power to place an eternal curse. He also wasn't at his peak power, he probably hadn't even scratched the surface of his power when Link fought him - for context, I'd say Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power was slightly more powerful than Demise in the final battle of Skyward Sword.

Even if the curse was already in place since prior to Demise's duel with Link I still think it would extent both into the future and into the past though. It's totally something Demise would have done with the powers he had.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Even if the curse was already in place since prior to Demise's duel with Link I still think it would extent both into the future and into the past though. It's totally something Demise would have done with the powers he had.

So you're saying Demise is the source of the curse?

Here's the translated version of the curse from the Japanese text:

"My hatred... The curse of the Demon Tribe... They shall continously go on reincarnating until the end of all times." - Demise

He's associating it with his tribe here, which I take as his ancestors. I think Fi's relation of Demise appearing in each epoch and to all who lay eyes on him is more like every past demon king associated with the Demon Tribe was considered an incarnation of Demise. With this hate curse in mind, it's true to an extent.

 

[Pen]

So you're saying Demise is the source of the curse?

Here's the translated version of the curse from the Japanese text:


He's associating it with his tribe here, which I take as his ancestors. I think Fi's relation of Demise appearing in each epoch and to all who lay eyes on him is more like every past demon king associated with the Demon Tribe was considered an incarnation of Demise. With this hate curse in mind, it's true to an extent.

When he associates his hatred with his tribe I just interpret that as the magic he uses comes from his tribe. Remember that Demise is a character and there's no info about Demise himself being reincarnated; only his hatred and the curse of his tribe (which supposedly is to forever plague the royal bloodline and the spirit of the hero) gets reincarnated. Demise was an even match for the Goddess Hylia. They were both immortal and couldn't defeat each other as they were, so with that in mind I imagine Demise has been around long enough to probably be the founder of his demon tribe, which would make the tribe's curse his own. Having mastered time itself is an incredibly powerful ability after all.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

When he associates his hatred with his tribe I just interpret that as the magic he uses comes from his tribe. Remember that Demise is a character and there's no info about Demise himself being reincarnated; only his hatred and the curse of his tribe (which supposedly is to forever plague the royal bloodline and the spirit of the hero) gets reincarnated. Demise was an even match for the Goddess Hylia. They were both immortal and couldn't defeat each other as they were, so with that in mind I imagine Demise has been around long enough to probably be the founder of his demon tribe, which would make the tribe's curse his own. Having mastered time itself is an incredibly powerful ability after all.

I don't see how he mastered time in a considerably weak state, unless he set the curse in motion back when he was at the peak of his power prior to the war with Hylia. Or, Hylia being a goddess associated with time, Demise inherited that aspect if her power that was stored within Zelda, but that's a stretch.

 

[Pen]

I don't see how he mastered time in a considerably weak state, unless he set the curse in motion back when he was at the peak of his power prior to the war with Hylia. Or, Hylia being a goddess associated with time, Demise inherited that aspect if her power that was stored within Zelda, but that's a stretch.

In Skyward Sword it's stated specifically that Demise has conquered time itself. With a feat of that calibre Demise would have absolutely foreseen his own demise and responded by setting his spiteful curse in motion ahead of time.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

In Skyward Sword it's stated specifically that Demise has conquered time itself. With a feat of that calibre Demise would have absolutely foreseen his own demise and responded by setting his spiteful curse in motion ahead of time.

See, that's where it's a cop out though and I dislike the notion. If you know you are going to die in a specific battle, why not just neglect to engage in that battle? If he was omnipresent surely he could do better, which makes me think he didn't literally conquer time.