The Official Timeline Cheated.

[ZestanorLink]

Hey. I haven't been here in a while. Recently I picked up a Zelda game after a while, and then I remembered all about the timeline! Anyway,
This

........................../ - WW/PH - ST
SS - MC - FS - OoT - LttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL
..........................\MM - TP - FSA

is the official timeline.

Hate it or love it, this is what Nintendo decided was the best way to arrange all the stories at the moment. If you analyze it for just a minute you logically conclude that something is off; someone... "cheated." Namely, with the new "third" branch. It isn't really a branch at all. It is an alternative to the AT; they can't exist exist as parallels. Why? Because one contradicts the other. This is not the same as the way the AT and CT coexist. Those two are physically separate continuities that are equally as real as the other. The new branch is simply an alternate universe. So really, that timeline means this

........................../ - WW/PH - ST
SS - MC - FS - OoT
..........................\MM - TP - FSA

OR this

........................../ - LttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL
SS - MC - FS - OoT
..........................\MM - TP - FSA

And that is "OR," not "AND."
And therein lies the problem. This is where the Nintendo execs cheated. They did not construct a master timeline.

They constructed two.

That is the only way I can accept it. They have created two (debatable) infallible timelines, and only one can be true at a time. As long as that's the case, we're still in business! The search for a master timeline continues!

If we begin with what Nintendo has, and we strictly weed out all the inconsistent links based on the rule that the original language in-game text and instruction manuals cannot lie (and this must hold true throughout my argument), we arrive at this

........................../ - WW/PH - ST
SS - MC - FS - OoT
..........................\MM - TP

Because the backstory to ALttP is not consistent to OoT (even if Link fails), as the official timeline would seem to imply. Also, FSA can only exist in conjunction with FS; it treats FS as a prequel, referring specifically to the characters "Link" and "Zelda" in that game, as opposed to its hazy treatment of MC. If FSA can't be with FS, then it can't be at all. So, were are successful in returning the number of timelines back down to one. There must be a way that the rest of the games could fit this timeline. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine, but your alternative is two timelines, not one. Here is what I have always assumed

......................./ - WW/PH - ST
SS - MC - OoT
..................\MM - TP - FS/FSA - LttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL

Now, the backstory of ALttP, the Seal War, is causing problems again. The Seal War cannot be FSA, despite certain similarities. Some event must happen that undoes the effects of FSA, and sets up for the Seal War. Ganon with Trident must leave his Four Sword seal, become human again, and return to society. This is my wild guess:

Ganon, upon leaving the mortal realm and entering the seal of the Four Sword, is reverted to Ganondorf, even though he retains his trident. This new seal is now guaranteed by a duplicate that exists in a palace in the sacred realm. The Four Sword cannot be pulled from its pedestal in the mortal realm anymore; it's too risky. Still, a doppelganger of Link finds its way into the palace in the sacred realm, and pulls the sword. (I get this from the GBA ALttP special dungeon. In it, a shadow Link split in four by the sword resides in the Palace of the Four Sword.) The seal in the regular world is broken, and Ganondorf returns to society.

They couldn't make that into a game, but it's not impossible. That's how I get rid of the 50/50 raffle timelines and put the older games in a logical position. Do you all think this is a reasonable explanation?

 

[DarkestLink]

Better yet, just make two universes and one single timeline per universe.

Universe #1

Legend of Zelda-->Adventure of Link-->Minish Cap-->Four Swords-->A Link to the Past-->Oracle of Ages/Seasons-->Link's Awakening-->Four Swords Adventure

Universe #2

Skyward Sword-->Twilight Princess(?)-->Ocarina of Time-->Majora's Mask-->Twilight Princess(?)-->Wind Waker-->Phantom Hourglass-->Spirit Tracks

Twilight Princess could fit in either spot. Either way, to me, this makes far more sense, especially since the Wind Waker fits on two of the split timelines. The timeline was officially screwed when they put the origin story at the end.

 

[Locke]

Well, you had me at "there are two timelines" but then you lost me when you tried to supersede the official timeline(s). Yes, they cheated with the so-called "cop-out timeline", but at the moment there's no point trying to fix or argue with it. It's still an official timeline, even if it's two official timelines.

To give a little more meat to your argument in that regard: unless you get into quantum multiverse theory (e.g. Shrodinger's Cat), it is impossible for both the adult timeline and the cop-out timline to proceed from the same unified timeline. The child timeline branches off because Link returning to the past changed the course of events. In order for Link to lose to Ganondorf, something must have changed (i.e. a force external to that continuity) relative to the continuity in which he defeats Ganondorf, but there's no evidence of such a change.

Say, for example, Link lost because he only had 19 heart containers, while the version that defeated Ganondorf had 20. What caused him to miss that one heart piece? Perhaps he didn't think to use the Song of Storms by the tree outside Hyrule Castle. Now it seems the timeline actually split there, not right when Ganondorf defeated him. But why didn't he think to use the Song of Storms, while his AT counterpart did? There must be some cause even before that point in time. This continues until the beginning of time itself with no common point at which a branch occurs, showing that there are actually two entirely separate timelines -- two copies of SS-MC-FS-OoT, one following into WW, the other following into LttP. (btw, the CT wouldn't happen on the cop-out timeline, since Link can't be sent back in time.)

But just for fun, I'll argue with your own timeline... why does FS/FSA fit better on the CT than on the AT?

 

[ZestanorLink]

Well, you had me at "there are two timelines" but then you lost me when you tried to supersede the official timeline(s). Yes, they cheated with the so-called "cop-out timeline", but at the moment there's no point trying to fix or argue with it. It's still an official timeline, even if it's two official timelines.

Right. But it's fun for me, and I think whenever they release another game the whole thing will have to be reconsidered again. So I'm just one step ahead, I guess.

To give a little more meat to your argument in that regard: unless you get into quantum multiverse theory (e.g. Shrodinger's Cat), it is impossible for both the adult timeline and the cop-out timline to proceed from the same unified timeline. The child timeline branches off because Link returning to the past changed the course of events. In order for Link to lose to Ganondorf, something must have changed (i.e. a force external to that continuity) relative to the continuity in which he defeats Ganondorf, but there's no evidence of such a change.

Oh yeah! The CT can't exist on the version where Link dies.

Say, for example, Link lost because he only had 19 heart containers, while the version that defeated Ganondorf had 20. What caused him to miss that one heart piece? Perhaps he didn't think to use the Song of Storms by the tree outside Hyrule Castle. Now it seems the timeline actually split there, not right when Ganondorf defeated him. But why didn't he think to use the Song of Storms, while his AT counterpart did? There must be some cause even before that point in time. This continues until the beginning of time itself with no common point at which a branch occurs, showing that there are actually two entirely separate timelines -- two copies of SS-MC-FS-OoT, one following into WW, the other following into LttP. (btw, the CT wouldn't happen on the cop-out timeline, since Link can't be sent back in time.)

Right, that's exactly why.

But just for fun, I'll argue with your own timeline... why does FS/FSA fit better on the CT than on the AT?

Well, it seems like both branches could work. The original Ganondorf is dead, so either branch could just as likely give rise to a new one, right? There are pros and cons for either, ranging from trivial to really important.

Pro Child Timeline
-The Gerudo, cannot be proven extinct from Hyrule. They aren't prevalent during TP, but there's no proof that they are gone forever.
-FSA was developed as a CT game
-The Trident

Con Child Timeline
-Ganon has to undo his Four Sword seal to begin the SW.
-Hyrule goes from being landlocked, to being surrounded by water, and then back.

Pro Adult Timeline
-Ganon is not needed in another game.
-Hyrule is surrounded by water
-Force gems
-Tetra's trackers

Con Adult Timeline
-No Gerudo
-There was no "new Hyrule" when FSA was made.
-Ganon died with the old Hyrule. (Essentially, having him in the new Hyrule would compromise the integrity of WW's ending.)

I think the case for CT is greater than the case for the AT. The big issue with it being on the AT are that the Gerudo aren't there. Further, in the grand scheme of things, Ganon is tied to Hyrule. We see this in WW. That when FSA was made, Hyrule was non-existent on the AT, coupled with the fact that FSA was almost the SW, shows that FSA really has no business being on the AT. I don't think that simply because Hyrule now exists again on the AT, and that force gems and other trivialities like the prevalence of water seem to tie it together with FSA, is enough evidence to retroactively yank FSA from its (I'll admit somewhat ambiguous) place on the CT. But I don't want to leave anything out, so I will now refute each of the con-CT and pro-AT points that I haven't just answered.

"Hyrule goes from being landlocked, to being surrounded by water, and then back."
In TP, Hyrule is not noticeably surrounded by water. If FSA is on the CT, and since Hyrule is surrounded by water, that means something big happened. And then for ALttP, Hyrule is landlocked again. This isn't a problem. Suppose Hyrule has actually always been on an island (we don't know how large, or how far the next portion of land is). Suppose at the time of FSA, Hyrule was at its greatest power, and it controlled the entire island. It even ruled over the Gerudo, whom they hadn't in TP. Then from the time of FSA to the time of ALttP, Hyrule regressed back to its TP-era control, being again landlocked by other kingdoms.

"Force gems"
I've seen this one argued before. There are force gems in ST, there are force gems in FSA. Instant match! ... I mean, it's not completely bogus, but seriously; it's just a gameplay element. I really can't refute this one; it's so trivial.

"Tetra's trackers"
This is almost exactly the same as the Force gem argument. This was a multiplayer minigame meant to supplement WW, and what better way to do this than to split Link in four, like they did in FS (not FSA, that came much later) for the GBA? You can't have multiplayer LoZ without the tetracolor Links nowadays. This doesn't mean that the Four Sword was in any way involved in the minigame. And even if the Four Sword was a central part of this minigame, that would mean that Vaati is free, and the backstory to FSA is suddenly missing an important part of the tale: when the brave adventurer accidentally broke the seal and failed to do anything about it.

Because of all that, FS/FSA has a less difficult time fitting on the CT, if you are in the business of fitting everything on a single real timeline.