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The "Nostalgia Goggles" Straw Man

Hanyou

didn't build that
You sometimes have to wonder how certain arguments become popular.

One of the most ridiculous arguments bandied about by gamers is the "nostalgia goggles" straw man. Say you prefer an old game to a new one, and many times you're immediately assaulted with allegations that your judgment is "clouded by nostalgia" or something of the sort. Worse, I've seen people apologize for their preference of an older game over a newer one, or claim themselves that it may just be due to nostalgia.

Can you imagine people applying this argument to any other art form? If I said I preferred the 1931 Dracula starring Bela Lugosi to the Looney Tunes-esque 1990s Coppola version, or the original King Kong to Peter Jackson's laborious remake, even those who disagreed with me might consider whatever arguments I have to make. Yet as soon as I dare say I like Ocarina of Time and dislike Twilight Princess, or the original 8-bit Phantasy Star to Mass Effect, or Morrowind to Skyrim, regardless of how good my arguments are, a flock of harpies descends on my arguments and steals away all the premises, leaving only the "nostalgia goggles" straw man in its wake.

This is just the sort of argument that would see a child dismissed from a middle school English class ("Shakespeare is so trite and dated! You only like it because you grew up with it!"), but it's trotted out by otherwise sane and intelligent adult gamers on a regular basis.

Why do people make these arguments? Why does the gaming community at large continue to give it any attention or credence? What good can possibly come of it?
 
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Joined
Nov 28, 2011
I'm pretty sure people continue to rely on the nostalgia argument because it is something that is completely inarguable. No one can tell you, "That's not nostalgic," because it's in the eye of the beholder. I think it's just a way for people to squirm their way out of arguing their point. People tend to ignore real arguments, regardless of quality, just so long as they can disagree with them. They can't disagree with whether or not someone finds something nostalgic, so people cling to that so as to not incite the wrath of opinion destroying gamer trolls.

Excellently written thread, by the way. Rarely do I see someone use the term "Straw Man" correctly.
 
Joined
May 5, 2010
Location
Canada
Ahh nostalgia, a swear word of the internet to people who like an older game. Because it can't be possible for an older game to still be enjoyable or in fact better than a new one. That's how I always thought of it.
 

Clash

Super Melee Brawler
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
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I think nostalgia is a ligitamite reason to like a game, but nostalgia is almost never the lone reason someone likes one game over the other. No one gets nostalgic over a bad game.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Most of the time it most certainly is just gamers using a straw man argument. However, there are times it's actually true. I saw quite a few comments on IGN's SS vs. OoT results video raging at voters (and, for some reason, IGN) for SS winning the contest. Like, pure all-caps rage. Some even went on to say things like, "Those who voted for SS clearly didn't play OoT as children." If that doesn't scream nostalgia goggles from the rooftops, then I don't know what does, because that's just as much of a straw man argument as automatically assuming those who like older games more/thing some older games are better than newer ones are better. If not more so. I only pull out the nostalgia card when there's no doubt in my mind that it needs to be pulled. Otherwise I leave it alone.
 

MW7

Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Ohio
The logic behind using this kind of argument lies simply in the nature of gaming. It's an aspect of the technology market and as such to say you prefer an older game is, at times, comparable to saying you prefer desktop computers from the 1980's unless you can provide a valid reason for such preference. I agree it's silly to fall back on that rather than providing a decent argument but at the same time it's comparably silly to say you prefer a game without being able to provide a decent reason for such. "OoT is the best game in the series because it's the game I grew up with". Personally I've always found the argument that a game is better because it was more impressive at the time lacking as well. If people do not want me to call them out for their 'nostalgia goggles' then I expect them not to wear them.

I think this is a very valid reason. Many gamers care a lot about aspects of games that are very dependent on technological advancement such as graphics. Plus there's the huge impact of more content in newer games. Still it's very possible to prefer older games to newer games regardless of nostalgia because there are aspects of games that aren't so dependent on technological advancement like music or gameplay (both partially affected though). For instance I steadfastly believe Legend of Zelda and A Link to the Past are better games than the rest of the Zelda series, and the basis of that belief is in their gameplay. Also I know that nostalgia has little to do with that because I played several other games in the series before playing either of those two games. I prefer Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask to both of those games, and I believe the only possible explanation why two games I believe to be inferior can be preferred by me is nostalgia.
Most of the time it most certainly is just gamers using a straw man argument. However, there are times it's actually true. I saw quite a few comments on IGN's SS vs. OoT results video raging at voters (and, for some reason, IGN) for SS winning the contest. Like, pure all-caps rage. Some even went on to say things like, "Those who voted for SS clearly didn't play OoT as children." If that doesn't scream nostalgia goggles from the rooftops, then I don't know what does, because that's just as much of a straw man argument as automatically assuming those who like older games more/thing some older games are better than newer ones are better. If not more so. I only pull out the nostalgia card when there's no doubt in my mind that it needs to be pulled. Otherwise I leave it alone.
Oh yes I remember that well. I remember reading comments exactly like that and shaking my head. As one of Ocarina's supporters in the SS vs. OOT argument, I just wanted to crawl in a hole when I read that because that made all of us Ocarina supporters look like idiots.

My main argument back then wasn't even related to the content of either games though. I just felt baffled that they would run a contest so soon after the release of SS when no one's opinion could possibly be fully formed, but the worst thing of all was the awful choices for categories- it was like "which randomly selected four aspects of these two games does everyone prefer?"
 
I agree. Nostalgia isn't peculiar to the videogames industry; it is, however, treated in a distinctly negative light. There is absolutely no reason for this. I believe this negative view of nostalgia for older games has been strongly fanned by the increased emphasis on online play this generation. Younger gamers especially spurn not only contemporary games which lack an (online) multiplayer component but also tend to disregard older games for the same reason.

On this forum, I have been persecuted for my views in defense of older Zelda games over newer ones. I was accused of being blind due to calling Ocarina of Time better than Skyward Sword and my opinion was called wrong because some video on IGN allegedly showed Skyward Sword to be better.

It's time for gamers to stop mudding the waters of true classics. A game is the same game forever. Games don't grow worse over time, gamer's perceptions change. Gamers aren't clouded by rose tinted nostalgia glasses; they're drunk to intoxication with HD graphics, "innovative" control methods, and online multiplayer. It's time to reconsider and give classics the respect they deserve whether new or old.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
It's time for gamers to stop mudding the waters of true classics. A game is the same game forever. Games don't grow worse over time, gamer's perceptions change. Gamers aren't clouded by rose tinted nostalgia glasses; they're drunk to intoxication with HD graphics, "innovative" control methods, and online multiplayer. It's time to reconsider and give classics the respect they deserve whether new or old.

You do realize that you're using a stereotype right there and, in a way, using a straw man argument in reference to modern gamers with what you just said, right?
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
This, to me, sounds like the opposite of the nostalgia goggles straw man. "Young gamers prefer new games simply because they have better graphics".

It's actually the same point you made in your post, just the inverse. You're right--some people actually do think older games are better just because they're older. That is invalid and hardly objective. Some people prefer newer games because of HD, "new" mechanics, etc.--that, too, is invalid. It's also quite pervasive in the game community, even among critics--see how games' scores plummet on rerelease, and read the reviews, and you'll see reference to "dated" mechanics and the like. I can retrieve examples, but I'm sure you've seen it before.

I don't think either you or A Link in Time was building a straw man, necessarily. It would be a straw man if you used it as a bludgeon against someone who was making a different argument--which is precisely what the nostalgia goggles straw man does.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2011
Location
USA, NJ
I would liek to think nostalgia also has to do with how much games have changed since they originally came out. NES games are very different (and a whole heck of a lot harder) then the more modern games - Zelda is a perfect example of this. I love Zelda, each one for its different qualities, but if you can honestly tell me the puzzles in Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess where just as hard as they were int he original NES games or even some of the GBA games you need to go back and replay those games. Again, loved the Zelda games, all of them, but like many new games that are coming out difficulty levels for various reasons are decreasing - if games are difficult its for other reasons then they used to be. They just don't make them like they used to. but, is that always a bad thing? Maybe not, but in ways, I am more then sure. I absolutly loved it when hey made MegaMan 9 and 10 for example, very nostalgic and difficult, unlike say X or Legends ;/ I could say the same about Sonic 4 over Sonic Generations ;/ All good games but for different reasons that do make me feel nostalgic
 

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