• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

The Kokiri (Can They Die from Ageing)

Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Location
United States
As you know, Kokiri live in the forest as they are eternally young with fairy companions on their side. So since they don't get any older, could they actually die from old age? If they don't get any older and stay young how could they die? The only way I see possible is actually being physically killed by some force. What do you think? Can the Kokiri actually die from old age?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
No of course not. Whenever someone dies from old age, it is usually due to failure of an body system or some kind of sickness, but since the Kokiri are eternally young, it would be impossible to die naturally.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Location
Massachusetts
In an interview with Miyamoto (No doubt Locke will appear soon and post a link to this) he said that the kokiri were a race that would disappear just as abruptly as they appeared in order to make room for the next generation. Whilst there's nothing in game to support this the general idea of the kokiri is that they are born and remain children for the entirety of their lives. Biologically they cannot die from old age. However this 'disappearing' may well come on at a certain age. Thus, in a sense, they do. However we are given next to nothing regarding this topic other than they are eternally children and they die if they leave the forest, which turned out to be a lie anyway.

That's an odd thing for Miyamoto to say. What exactly is the context for this interview? Because for something to just disappear like that sounds pretty un-Zelda like to me, unless I'm mistakenly reading this.

Then again, Miyamoto's word IS law, so he probably has a better idea than I do. :)
 

bkelly458

Just Some Dude
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
I think the Kokiri, at heart, are walking metaphors for innocence.

This is pretty obvious in some ways, such as them being children their whole lives, but it goes deeper than that. The whole atmosphere of Kokiri Forest is filled with a child-like innocence. They're all just a bunch of kids, playing with (or in some cases, like Mido, bullying) each other all the time. They don't seem to have a care in the world, and they have all the time in the world to play, explore the forest, draw on their houses, talk about how awesome Z-targeting is, etc. The whole place feels like a sweet, innocent neighborhood, filled with kids to play with- not unlike some of our own childhoods.

The reason they have this great innocence? They're surround by the protection of their fairies and their guardian, the Great Deku Tree. I believe the fairies act, in a way, as a metaphor for the children's own conscience. They all have one over their shoulder, and they lead them to the right directions and away from bad ones, much like the angel/ devil depictions in cartoons. For example, take Link's fairy Navi. Although she's pretty annoying, Navi navigates Link throughout his adventure- "Hey, Listen!" - "Watch out!"- "Look!"

The Great Deku Tree is essentially their parent. He protects them from harm, and it's his job to make sure the Kokiri stay safe and innocent as long as possible. This means that he must protect them from both outside harm (like Ganondorf, by protecting the Forest Emerald with his very life), but also to keep them innocent as long as possible. To achieve the latter, I believe the Great Deku Tree made up the rumor about Kokiri becoming a Stalfos if they left the forest. Not too far-fetched, considering parents tell their children lies to protect their innocence as well, through Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc.

But to the question at hand- Can the Kokiri die from old age? Or, in keeping with the running metaphor, can our innocence die? Of course. Nothing great lasts forever, including our innocent childhood.

However, I don't think their death would be due to biological reasons. I see it being inevitable that, one day, a Kokiri dismisses their fairies and the Deku Tree's advice and wonders outside the forest. It's only natural- as we grow up and simply live longer, we all start thinking more for ourselves and begin to question our surroundings, and become more curious to see what else exists in the world besides what our parents say there is. Because the Kokiri are innocent children, if they wonder outside the forest, they're inevitably going to be taken advantage of in one way or another, and so they die. And a new Kokiri, I assume, is born in the Forest.

Also, as a side-note, if you continue these metaphors of the Kokiri as innocence and fairies as one's conscience, it really opens up great interpretations of Link & Navi, especially at the end of the game. Man... I love the N64 Zeldas! :)
 

Gemquarry

The Inquirer
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Location
Hoenn
Gender
Koops
Kokiri probably don't die from old age, but I do think they have a limited life span on earth (Hyrule?). I'm guessing after a few years of living, there bodies start to fade away into existence (or whatever they're after life is...).

I have had a lot of different theory's about the Kokiri, mainly the one about the Kokiri sword. If there's a sword in the forest, doesn't that mean someone used it? Perhaps a Kokiri hero who fought in the war? I don't know, I'm not sure this question will be answered officially anytime soon...
 

Braivety

FPT | Breb
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Location
Maricopa, Arizona
Gender
Boi
of course they can. it's not like they don't age, cause they do. Theyre bodies just don't age. When your adult Link and you go back, there everyone is like a 17 or 18 year old in a 11 or 12 year old's body.
 
T

thepeckingbird

Guest
I like the idea of them just disappearing as they get older. It's a bit creepy but nice and suiting to a mythical world.
If Miyamoto says something along those lines, I guess we just have to go with it.
Derailing warning!:
This leads me onto thinking if they're all children, do they reproduce? Or just appear in the woods? Them just appearing would explain their link with the forest and their reliance on it for life. It'd also go nicely with them just fading away.
 

Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I thought they changed form after a few centuries - such as, in Wind Waker, they turned into Koroks. Otherwise, I think they're subject to age if they leave the forest to live the "Hylian life."

I seem to remember killing them off in one of my stories by the death of the forests (The Great Desert) - they aged and died off slowly when the forests they were magically bondeded to dissapeared, save for a few heavily aged holdouts, so I think that's a possiblity.

I tend to think of them as "spirits of the forest" made flesh at whim and that they take different forms for different ages - but are bonded to the forest.

I wonder if the Kikwi became Kokiri...
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Location
United States
I thought they changed form after a few centuries - such as, in Wind Waker, they turned into Koroks. Otherwise, I think they're subject to age if they leave the forest to live the "Hylian life."

I seem to remember killing them off in one of my stories by the death of the forests (The Great Desert) - they aged and died off slowly when the forests they were magically bondeded to dissapeared, save for a few heavily aged holdouts, so I think that's a possiblity.

I tend to think of them as "spirits of the forest" made flesh at whim and that they take different forms for different ages - but are bonded to the forest.

I wonder if the Kikwi became Kokiri...

Yeah. Now I wonder if the Kikwi became the Kokiri :O
 
However, I don't think their death would be due to biological reasons. I see it being inevitable that, one day, a Kokiri dismisses their fairies and the Deku Tree's advice and wonders outside the forest. It's only natural- as we grow up and simply live longer, we all start thinking more for ourselves and begin to question our surroundings, and become more curious to see what else exists in the world besides what our parents say there is. Because the Kokiri are innocent children, if they wonder outside the forest, they're inevitably going to be taken advantage of in one way or another, and so they die. And a new Kokiri, I assume, is born in the Forest.

First off, I wanted to say great post. We don't usually get members of such high caliber around these parts. :)

The one paragraph I have a problem with, however, is quoted. If the Kokiri can die from being taken advantage of why can they not from biological reasons? Are you implying immortality only encompasses age? Sorry if you already mentioned this but I'm tired tonight.
 

bkelly458

Just Some Dude
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
This is one of the best things I've read in the week

Well, thank you! I just got a thought and sort of ran with it. I would do it more often on some of these great discussions, but I just don't have the time. Or the energy. Haha and I've got to get up to 100 posts for this forum contest in 24 hours :p

One thing I thought of but didn't include was on the Lost Woods. Notice how the further away from the Great Deku Tree the Kokiri go, things become more and more confusing and maze-like? It's hard to navigate your way around the Lost Woods, and arguably even more difficult in the Scared Forest Meadow. The metaphor could be extended by saying that the further away we go from our parents/ guardian's protection as children, the more and more confusing and complex things become. :)

However, I'd also say the theory that Kokiri disappear and fade away is interesting. Sort of explains why they fade in and out of view. I assume that was intentional and not just a graphical function of the N64....
 

Djinn

and Tonic
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Location
The Flying Mobile Opression fortress
They definitely have a very finite lifespan and notheing states that they are immortal in any way. Only a quote from a Sage lets us think otherwise and we still have no idea just what the lifespan of a sage is. However when it comes to Kokiri they live until a point then disappear only to have a new generation appear at a later date. This was mentioned in a developer quote from Miyamoto years earlier.

Link is a child of a race of elves called "Kokili." For some reason or another, there are no parents in this race, only many children of the same age. All of a sudden, they grow up until they reach a certain age, when they disappear. The next generation is born just as abruptly. So at some point, Link will disappear.
Legend of Zelda Developer Timeline Quotes
 

bkelly458

Just Some Dude
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
First off, I wanted to say great post. We don't usually get members of such high caliber around these parts. :)

The one paragraph I have a problem with, however, is quoted. If the Kokiri can die from being taken advantage of why can they not from biological reasons? Are you implying immortality only encompasses age? Sorry if you already mentioned this but I'm tired tonight.

Also, really sorry if I double-post, but I just saw this was posted right as I was drafting my last post, and if I don't replay now, haha I know I'll forget and never will. :p

Thanks! :D And no, I wouldn't say strictly they couldn't die from biological reasons associated with living a long time. However, the way I see it, that probably wouldn't be the typical life-cycle of a Kokiri. They're more-or-less innocent, live in the forest X number of years (still physically children), and they eventually leave the forest. From there, who knows what may happen to them. They could be killed by Stalchildren, starve, run into hostile Gerudos, etc. A typical Kokiri, I'm guessing, would be ill-prepared to face the dangers outside the forest.

That said, there could be exceptions the rule, I suppose. Hylians seem to have a working idea of who the forest children are, as Zelda and Malon both identify Link as one (and yes, I know he's in fact not one, but he looks like one, I mean). Also, if I recall correctly, Zelda makes a big deal about Link having a fairy. I know it was part of her dream and all, but her including the detail of having a fairy is interesting, as if that's rare for her to see a Kokiri with a fairy. Perhaps the fairies typically don't follow the Kokiri out of the forest?

Anyway, long story short, some Kokiri may last longer than others in the outside world, and that gives Hylians a glimpse at who/ what they are. Similarly, some Kokiri may stay in the forest much long than others, and perhaps they become known as wise for it (Haha the Know-It-All Brothers?)

Either way, it's in line with the general metaphor- everyone losses they childhood innocence at some point, but that point comes at different times to different people. :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom