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The Infowars

tysonrss

Keyblade Master
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Location
OH, USA
Has anyone heard of Alex Jones? If not...


He's a Texas radio show host who talks about World affairs and politics, stuff of that nature. He's the guy who infiltrated Bohemian Grove-a place where top Government officials go for vacation, only Man are allowed. They are said to do rituals and worship an "owl like" God.

He also believes the 9/11 attacks were staged by the government to consolidate us and bring in a New World Order. He has made many films/documentaries and has done extensive research on his ideals.

What do you all think of the whole "Government Conspiracy Ideology"?.

I used to listen to him, then quit. Got tired of him and his ******** actually, I still believe there is something behind the scenes(Zionism)but much of what Alex Jones talk about is garbage.

I think that he's full of crap because he claims to believe that there is a conspiracy that exists between transhumanists, the pentagon, world government leaders, and "the globalists" to bring about the Matrix/New World Order because satan talks to all of these parties through their use of DMT and LSD, which they percieve to be friendly elves/"inter-dimensional" aliens. And MMOs are a testing platform for the eventual creation of the Matrix. And the Large Hadron Collider is actually a portal to hell:

[video=youtube;0BKzuzjjCro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0BKzuzjjCro[/video]

I think if people want to get started in the right direction, they need to look at Zionism and how it has impacted the US Government and the current state of affiars in the Middle East. Zionism is a form of Nationalism yet they stand against it -_-

Anyways, discuss!
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Location
Lost Woods, Oregon
Okay, this is my opinion so I mean no offense, but I think he's a total crackpot. Sure I think there's definitely some truth to "some" conspiracy theories, but I take what this guy says with a grain of salt.
 

Agent Spaghetti

Advanced Noodle
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Location
The Pasta Kingdom.
Could you describe what Zionism actually is and what it's doing, because I've looked it up and I've gotten nothing useful. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I doubt i I'll buy it, but I am curious.
 

Moonstone

embrace the brand new day
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Saw DMT and had to watch. Was highly disappointed.

This guy is so crazy, that even he doesn't know what the hell he's saying. Sorry. As far as I can see, it's just a huge unintelligent rant by some... I don't even know. Conspiracy theorists... *shakes head*
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
Could you describe what Zionism actually is and what it's doing, because I've looked it up and I've gotten nothing useful. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I doubt i I'll buy it, but I am curious.
Let me do my best to explain what little I know. Generally, anti-Zionists see the Jewish lobby in America as a threat, and view Jewish people as exceptionally greedy and powerful, an age-old racial stereotype. The fact that there are so many influential Jewish people in the media, in their view, validates their claims that there is some kind of Jewish conspiracy to take over every institution. The United States' foreign policy can be viewed as a manifestation of this.

Zionism is a rallying point for white nationalists. Of course, not everyone who is anti-Zionist is a white nationalist, but anti-semitism runs rampant. I've also seen claims about the holocaust made among their ranks, from stuff that would make Ahmadinejad proud to worse claims that yeah, the holocaust happened, but maybe it was deserved.

I am neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestine, but I think in general anti-Zionism is utter hogwash. I have huge problems with the United States' foreign policy in general, but chalking it up to "the Jews" is plainly racist and worse, grossly oversimplified. The United States has had an incompetent foreign policy almost since it was influential enough to attempt diplomacy with foreign countries. Agent Spaghetti, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about Zionism if it were you. It's a political dead end, yet another conspiracy theory. A serious debate on foreign or domestic policy should never begin with "x scapegoat group," such as "The Jews" or "The Jewish lobby." That's a clear sign you'll get nowhere.

EDIT: I forgot to add, Zionism is by definition Jewish nationalism. Ironic that white nationalists have such a problem with this. Guess they don't experience cognitive dissonance.

Alex Jones, to my knowledge, isn't an anti-Semite, but he is a conspiracy theorist. As a conservative libertarian, I hang out with lots of libertarians and paleoconservatives, so I run into people who take this nutjob seriously sometimes. He appeals to the worst, most rightfully marginalized members of the right wing.

I make no claims about individual anti-Zionists or Alex Jones listeners. Perhaps there are decent ones. I've just never known them to exist.
 
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tysonrss

Keyblade Master
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Location
OH, USA
Could you describe what Zionism actually is and what it's doing, because I've looked it up and I've gotten nothing useful. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I doubt i I'll buy it, but I am curious.
Zionism - what everyone is led to believe is a ideology that the Jewish people should have their own identity, their own Jewish State. But that's what it is on the surface, in reality, Zionism is no different from Nationalism yet they criticize and belittle the Germans every chance they get via Hollywood and American History classes and attack their beliefs of Nationalism. Zionism was around long before 1948 in fact it can be proven that it dates back to at least the 1700s as the Rothschild family were Zionists themselves.

I would like to say there are two kinds of Zionism, the Zionism in what I described above and the politicial Zionism, which has a more dangerous effect than the Zionism I described. With political Zionism, we have Israeli leaders sabotaging and bribing the American Government(well not all of it I would say is bribing considering many politicial Zionists hold many powerful positions in the US Government). If you think about it, you have to always wonder why America became Israel's little ***** over the decades. The main slice of cake is because of Zionism. Sure many people see it as the right for the Jewish people to exist, but its much more complex as the fight for Zionism destroys anyone who gets in its path, such as the USS Liberty in 1967, in which Israel claimed the attack on the ship was a mistake when clearly there was an American flag on the ship. Israeli ships bombarded the Liberty for almost two hours, which is clearly an act of war yet America did nothing and still have open arms toward Israel, had this been an attack of any other kind you can bet we would have been at war.

I'd venture to say Zionism had a strong force on teh attack of 911, but that's another topic. The threat of Zionism is that anyone who critizes it are called anti-semitic and shut out. Which basically means no one is allowed to talk about Israel openly without having a very negative feedback, I'd also venture to say that the poor ignorant Bible Christians are also a threat, considering that they believe that no one should critize Israel.

It isn't a people here that I'm critizing, it's the religions that have brought forth these movements. Zionism at heart is political and is a threat to the world itself, because so long as have political Zionists in office you can be sure that they will do anything to assure that Israel exists, even if that means hurting your own people and supressing them. Zionism is just as faulty as the State of Israel considering that they're one in the same, and we all know that Israel's existence is due to the countless people killed and thrown out of their homes in that land. Which is something I find hypocritical since the first Israelis to settle there were victims of World War 2.

EDIT: And to just make things clear, I am not a white Nationalist. In fact, I'm more than one race.
 
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Hanyou

didn't build that
I'd venture to say Zionism had a strong force on teh attack of 911, but that's another topic. The threat of Zionism is that anyone who critizes it are called anti-semitic and shut out. Which basically means no one is allowed to talk about Israel openly without having a very negative feedback, I'd also venture to say that the poor ignorant Bible Christians are also a threat, considering that they believe that no one should critize Israel.
You want to educate people about what you believe is a legitimate domestic threat? Fine. I don't agree with you, but fine.

The problem is that I've yet to meet an anti-Zionist who doesn't use anti-Semitic rhetoric. Jabs at Jewish people are common among their ranks. If the movement to inform people about this supposed danger (which, again, I don't believe in--I'm concerned simply with limiting government) is serious, then "Jew this" and "Jew that" will have to stop.

As things stand, I hear the word "Zionism" and I tend to shut out the political opinion of anyone who utters it.
 

tysonrss

Keyblade Master
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Location
OH, USA
You want to educate people about what you believe is a legitimate domestic threat? Fine. I don't agree with you, but fine.

The problem is that I've yet to meet a Zionist who doesn't use anti-Semitic rhetoric. Jabs at Jewish people are common among their ranks. If the movement to inform people about this supposed danger (which, again, I don't believe in--I'm concerned simply with limiting government) is serious, then "Jew this" and "Jew that" will have to stop.
Your problem is that you believe anyone that is anti-Zionist are Jew bashers and haters. Sure there are countless more troublesome threats, but Zionism is still a threat as it controls the US Government. This isn't a conspiracy it is a fact. Sure what I'm about to say seems "hateful" but it isn't, it's just facts. You can look and see that many people that are in Congress and other positions are Government each have some kind of Jewish heritage, now that isn't to say that is bad, but the problem is that most of them are Zionists and so they will do what they can to ensure that Israel continues to exist, no matter what the cost is.

That is the way and nature of Zionism.
 

Austin

Austin
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Zionism - what everyone is led to believe is a ideology that the Jewish people should have their own identity, their own Jewish State. But that's what it is on the surface, in reality, Zionism is no different from Nationalism yet they criticize and belittle the Germans every chance they get via Hollywood and American History classes and attack their beliefs of Nationalism. Zionism was around long before 1948 in fact it can be proven that it dates back to at least the 1700s as the Rothschild family were Zionists themselves.
What you fail to understand is that nationalism, on the surface, isn't inherently evil. It's simply the mindset that can lead to atrocities. The Germans are proof of this as their rabid nationalism led them to set flame to the entirety of Europe and led to the attempted extermination of several ethnic and social groups, most prominently the Jewish people.

In order to understand Zionism, one must understand Jewish history. The Jews have been persecuted by countless different groups for thousands of years, with the Holocaust being one of the most dramatic of these occurrences. I've spoken with many people that claim that the Holocaust, while terrible, will not occur again in modern times. Thus, a Jewish state is not necessary. This is false. Quite frankly, after hearing the same adage spouted by several people throughout history, it simply isn't wise for anyone to take it at face-value. As such, a Jewish state is necessary simply so the Jewish people can decide and secure their own future.

At this point, I'd like to point out that Jews are not merely a group of people sharing a religion. Many Jews are agnostic. Judaism is different from other well-known religions simply because there is a strong cultural and even genealogical tie to it. Conversion to Judaism is extremely rare, and until very recently, Jews did not frequently intermarry. This resulted in an ethnoreligious group sharing both similar genes and similar cultural traditions. There are multiple ethnic groups of Jews. Typically, by Jew most people think of the Ashkenazi which is simply put, the European Jewry. Another large group is the Sephardi Jews of northern Africa. There are also fringe groups like the Mizrahi Jews and Ethiopian Jews.

These have much less in common beyond religion, but the point is, Jews cannot be so simply defined as a religious group, and as such any accusations of a theological government are false. That's all beside the fact that Israel is a parliamentary democracy containing no clause stating that being Jewish is a prerequisite to holding office, unlike many of Israel's neighbors.

As for American support for Israel, that's entirely America's prerogative. I don't buy into the conspiracy theories stating that Jewish lobbyism is the cause of such large amount of aid to Israel because, honestly, America is not a country that can be described as stingy when it comes to foreign aid. As far as I know, billions in aid is still being given to Pakistan despite them clearly giving sanctuary to Bin Laden for several years, so just as I don't blame Israeli aid on Hollywood or the media, I'm not going to blame that on the Manhattan taxi cab union either. Honestly, I don't really think Israel would be that much worse off without American support. They've got one of the best armies in the world, and as the past has shown, their opponents are poorly equipped and poorly organized.

As a disclaimer, I am Jewish, and I am in fact a Zionist, but that really shouldn't give my arguments any less credence. In the most recent election I did not vote based on which candidate would support Israel, I voted for the candidate I thought would be best for America (Gary Johnson). I actually supported Ron Paul during the Republican primaries and as far as I can tell he was the most "anti-Israel" candidate running. I support Israel, but being American as well as Jewish, I also support America. These two interests do not need to conflict, and often do not.

The internet is full of anti-Zionism and antisemitism, and while these are not one in the same, they go hand-in-hand so often that any anti-Zionist statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

I honestly didn't read the OP very much and I have nothing to really say about it. This was clearly turning into a Zionism discussion though and I felt the need to clear up any misinformation.
 
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tysonrss

Keyblade Master
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Location
OH, USA
What you fail to understand is that nationalism, on the surface, isn't inherently evil. It's simply the mindset that can lead to atrocities. The Germans are proof of this as their rabid nationalism led them to set flame to the entirety of Europe and led to the attempted extermination of several ethnic and social groups, most prominently the Jewish people.

In order to understand Zionism, one must understand Jewish history. The Jews have been persecuted by countless different groups for thousands of years, with the Holocaust being one of the most dramatic of these occurrences. I've spoken with many people that claim that the Holocaust, while terrible, will not occur again in modern times. Thus, a Jewish state is not necessary. This is false. Quite frankly, after hearing the same adage spouted by several people throughout history, it simply isn't wise for anyone to take it at face-value. As such, a Jewish state is necessary simply so the Jewish people can decide and secure their own future.

At this point, I'd like to point out that Jews are not merely a group of people sharing a religion. Many Jews are agnostic. Judaism is different from other well-known religions simply because there is a strong cultural and even genealogical tie to it. Conversion to Judaism is extremely rare, and until very recently, Jews did not frequently intermarry. This resulted in an ethnoreligious group sharing both similar genes and similar cultural traditions. There are multiple ethnic groups of Jews. Typically, by Jew most people think of the Ashkenazi which is simply put, the European Jewry. Another large group is the Sephardi Jews of northern Africa. There are also fringe groups like the Mizrahi Jews and Ethiopian Jews.

These have much less in common beyond religion, but the point is, Jews cannot be so simply defined as a religious group, and as such any accusations of a theological government are false. That's all beside the fact that Israel is a parliamentary democracy containing no clause stating that being Jewish is a prerequisite to holding office, unlike many of Israel's neighbors.

As for American support for Israel, that's entirely America's prerogative. I don't buy into the conspiracy theories stating that Jewish lobbyism is the cause of such large amount of aid to Israel because, honestly, America is not a country that can be described as stingy when it comes to foreign aid. As far as I know, billions in aid is still being given to Pakistan despite them clearly giving sanctuary to Bin Laden for several years, so just as I don't blame Israeli aid on Hollywood or the media, I'm not going to blame that on the Manhattan taxi cab union either. Honestly, I don't really think Israel would be that much worse off without American support. They've got one of the best armies in the world, and as the past has shown, their opponents are poorly equipped and poorly organized.

As a disclaimer, I am Jewish, and I am in fact a Zionist, but that really shouldn't give my arguments any less credence. In the most recent election I did not vote based on which candidate would support Israel, I voted for the candidate I thought would be best for America (Gary Johnson). I actually supported Ron Paul during the Republican primaries and as far as I can tell he was the most "anti-Israel" candidate running. I support Israel, but being American as well as Jewish, I also support America. These two interests do not need to conflict, and often do not.

The internet is full of anti-Zionism and antisemitism, and while these are not one in the same, they go hand-in-hand so often that any anti-Zionist statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

I honestly didn't read the OP very much and I have nothing to really say about it. This was clearly turning into a Zionism discussion though and I felt the need to clear up any misinformation.
I hope you can agree that Jews aren't only semites, but Arabs are as well. So to say that anyone that is anti-Zionist is an anti-semite is foolish. Sure some are a bit of both, but I find many anti-Zionist arguments to be full of info and truth, when looking past the whole "he hates Jews" thing when that isn't always the case, then one can see that there is some grain of truth in those anti-Zionist arguments.
 

Austin

Austin
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
I hope you can agree that Jews aren't only semites, but Arabs are as well.
This is true, but however inaccurate the colloquial usage of "antisemitism" usually refers exclusively to hatred towards Jews. If there is a better term I can consider using it.

So to say that anyone that is anti-Zionist is an anti-semite is foolish.
It would be foolish, which is why I did not say that.

Sure some are a bit of both, but I find many anti-Zionist arguments to be full of info and truth, when looking past the whole "he hates Jews" thing when that isn't always the case, then one can see that there is some grain of truth in those anti-Zionist arguments.
I'd be interested in hearing some, or responses to what I believe I have already dismissed. For the record, while I am pro-Israel I willingly admit that Israel has made mistakes and done some bad things. There exist few countries, if any, that are not guilty of that. I don't blindly defend Israel.
 
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Agent Spaghetti

Advanced Noodle
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Location
The Pasta Kingdom.
.Agent Spaghetti, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about Zionism if it were you. It's a political dead end, yet another conspiracy theory. A serious debate on foreign or domestic policy should never begin with "x scapegoat group," such as "The Jews" or "The Jewish lobby." That's a clear sign you'll get nowhere.
First off, thank you. Secondly, I didn't really plan on getting caught up in it. I was just curious. Jews seem to be hated throughout history no matter what they do, and so I take most of this very lightly.

@tysonrss: I am a Christian, and though I don't particularly know if I am a "ignorant Bible Christian", according to my beliefs the Jews are a special people, largely due to the Abrahamic Covenant. I believe they're a special people, but that doesn't mean I believe they're perfect or without critisms. Of course in the Bible they wandered in the wilderness for those many years because of their own sins, not to mention their crucifixion of Jesus Christ, but the kind of critism you seem to be labeling them with seems, to me, too extreme, misunderstanding, and right in line with the kind of hate Jews have faced nearly their entire existence. I do not buy that there's some huge conspiracy here run by the Jews. It is unfounded.
 
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