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The Hero's Shade Theory

Mikepoke101

Just Chilling.
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Location
Canada = Beauties live up north
I'm up for believing most theories since, well, they're just theory, but I just don't find this a complete theory...I symbolizes that it is possible that the hero's shade was in fact Link from Oot, but what about its relevance to the rest of the series...Interesting though I think more evidence of its change on an already stated timeline may be a good discussion for future posts.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I'm up for believing most theories since, well, they're just theory, but I just don't find this a complete theory...I symbolizes that it is possible that the hero's shade was in fact Link from Oot, but what about its relevance to the rest of the series...Interesting though I think more evidence of its change on an already stated timeline may be a good discussion for future posts.

But he's not suggesting that it's the Hero of Time. He's suggesting that it's Grog from OoT. You know, the blue guy with the spiky hair? And looks like Jimi Hendrix? Yeah, that guy. Since he turned into a Stalfos.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
I, myself, am starting to think there will never be a solid, established identity for the Hero's Shade. He will always remain just an important retcon-able character to the overall legend, like many other things in the Zelda chronology. In retrospect, that may have been the Nintendo guys' original direction with this character. As revealing the master timeline document could potentially restrict development of new games in the series, -- as the Nintendo guys put it -- perhaps the same can be applied to revealing the Hero's Shade's identity. ...just saying.
 

Squirrel

The Rodent King
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
The Tree
It's been confirmed that it is a split timeline... ¬.¬
Only because so many fans believed in the split timeline that the makers of the game decided to just go along with it and say there was a split timeline when they were never intending for there to be one.

Also, I don't think Hero's Shade is a previous Link (like most people believe) or a Kokiri. He's way taller than both. The Kokiri are really short and never grow up so even if they became a Stalfos there's no way they'd be that tall. He's still about 2 feet taller than full grown Link and also a foot taller than most Stalfos. Also, Hero's Shade says "At last, I have eased my regrets." when Link learns the last hidden skill which makes it sound like he isn't a Stalfos at all. Only someone who's dead but has to pass on the hidden skills so he stayed and waited for someone to pass it down to because he never had the chance to do it while he was alive.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Only because so many fans believed in the split timeline that the makers of the game decided to just go along with it and say there was a split timeline when they were never intending for there to be one.

Actually that's not true. There's been a split timeline since Majora's Mask. See, Ocarina of Time was originally the Seal War. In complete detail, the time Link left behind (which is when the split was created). The original four games were originally set on the AT, but Nintendo at some point realized that OoT couldn't be accurately used to depict the Seal War, so it no longer is, and The Wind Waker became a retcon to A Link to the Past (and the other three games that followed it) being on the AT.

I, myself, am starting to think there will never be a solid, established identity for the Hero's Shade. He will always remain just an important retcon-able character to the overall legend, like many other things in the Zelda chronology. In retrospect, that may have been the Nintendo guys' original direction with this character. As revealing the master timeline document could potentially restrict development of new games in the series, -- as the Nintendo guys put it -- perhaps the same can be applied to revealing the Hero's Shade's identity. ...just saying.

Oh, that's exactly right. They didn't come out and say it because they wanted us to figure it out/decide for ourselves.
 
F

Frost038

Guest
if you look at the Hero's Shade, it has many iconic features of both a Skulfas and of Link, but i don't believe it is the adult Link. at the end of MM, Link went off to find Navi, causing Link to wander the lost woods, and not being a Kokuri, he would eventually turn into a Skulfas. the reason i believe it is the childhood Link (MM) Look at the hero's shade shield, it looks like a dirty "Mirror Shield", his sword looks like the "Gilded Sword" or the "Great Fairy Sword".
 

JuicieJ

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if you look at the Hero's Shade, it has many iconic features of both a Skulfas and of Link, but i don't believe it is the adult Link. at the end of MM, Link went off to find Navi, causing Link to wander the lost woods, and not being a Kokuri, he would eventually turn into a Skulfas.

What's there to say he would have turned into a Stalfos? That's a silly idea. I mean, he's much taller than a child would have been. And even if it were true, he wouldn't have a descendant, which is what all Links (save WW's) have to be. The Stalfos form is also just for battle. He never appears as that form outside of Link's mind. His form is the golden wolf, which is what causes me to believe that he's not the actual spirit of the Hero of Time, but some remnant of sorts of his spirit. Kind of like the ghosts in Harry Potter, but not exactly.

the reason i believe it is the childhood Link (MM) Look at the hero's shade shield, it looks like a dirty "Mirror Shield", his sword looks like the "Gilded Sword" or the "Great Fairy Sword".

Oh, please don't tell me you got this idea from ocarinahero10. That is one of the most absurd statements in Zelda history. The sword he has looks absolutely nothing like the Guilded Sword (which is an optional upgrade and has nothing to do with the canon, anyway), and definitely doesn't look like the Great Fairy's Sword, which has no hilt and is colored purple and black. In fact, its hilt looks more like the Master Sword than anything (which is not what I'm saying it is at all). And the shield doesn't have a face on it, which is the signature of the Mirror Shield in Majora's Mask. He does not have those two items. They're just a sword and a shield.
 

Locke

Hegemon
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What's there to say he would have turned into a Stalfos? That's a silly idea. I mean, he's much taller than a child would have been. And even if it were true, he wouldn't have a descendant, which is what all Links (save WW's) have to be. The Stalfos form is also just for battle. He never appears as that form outside of Link's mind. His form is the golden wolf, which is what causes me to believe that he's not the actual spirit of the Hero of Time, but some remnant of sorts of his spirit. Kind of like the ghosts in Harry Potter, but not exactly.
Good point. He appears as a wolf both in and out of the Twilight Curtain, right? or only outside? While Link's spirit comes out in the Twilight Realm/Curtain, the hero's shade must have found a way to bring out this spirit to preserve himself. It's still possible that the image of a stalfos he puts in Link's mind is a (perhaps distorted) image of his original form.

If you don't mind a little more speculation, maybe he brought out his spirit by switching it with his body. So now he exists in the world as an unaging "sublime beast" and when he's communicating mind-to-mind, spirit-to-spirit, he uses the body he normally would appear as in the world, except this body has aged, and so it appears as such.</uncharacteristically-fanfic-ish-nonsense-that-you-should-ignore>
 

JuicieJ

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If you don't mind a little more speculation, maybe he brought out his spirit by switching it with his body. So now he exists in the world as an unaging "sublime beast" and when he's communicating mind-to-mind, spirit-to-spirit, he uses the body he normally would appear as in the world, except this body has aged, and so it appears as such.</uncharacteristically-fanfic-ish-nonsense-that-you-should-ignore>

Hm! That's a pretty good idea. No way it can really be proven, but a good idea nonetheless.
 

Squirrel

The Rodent King
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Actually that's not true. There's been a split timeline since Majora's Mask. See, Ocarina of Time was originally the Seal War. In complete detail, the time Link left behind (which is when the split was created). The original four games were originally set on the AT, but Nintendo at some point realized that OoT couldn't be accurately used to depict the Seal War, so it no longer is, and The Wind Waker became a retcon to A Link to the Past (and the other three games that followed it) being on the AT.

Even after Twilight Princess was created, the creators of Zelda said there was no split timeline.
This guy named ocarinahero10 on YouTube made a video of the timeline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg

This is the response Nintendo gave him after he asked their opinion about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

The point in this video that proves that there's no split timeline is when it says "There isn't a true frame of reference or timeline possible for the series."
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
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Location
Redmond, Washington
Even after Twilight Princess was created, the creators of Zelda said there was no split timeline.
This guy named ocarinahero10 on YouTube made a video of the timeline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg

This is the response Nintendo gave him after he asked their opinion about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

The point in this video that proves that there's no split timeline is when it says "There isn't a true frame of reference or timeline possible for the series."
Pay attention to the credibility of the source though. That's coming from a low-down NoA rep who most likely has absolutely no say in the actual development of Zelda games. On the other hand, we have a couple quotes from 2002 and 2007 from the producers of the games and franchise:
Question: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Eiji Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?

Eiji Aonuma: From the end.

Shigeru Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...

Eiji Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

Shigeru Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.
Nintendo Dream: When does Twilight Princess take place?

Eiji Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

Nintendo Dream: And the Wind Waker?

Eiji Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
We've also repeatedly (so many times that I don't care to list them all - just look at the dev quotes page) been told by such people as Miyamoto, Aonuma, and Trinen that there is indeed a "true frame of reference or timeline," further nullifying that NoA rep's statement.
 

Capitaine

Ray of Silver
Joined
May 16, 2011
That NoA statement is sort of true, in a sense. Aonuma did say that they couldn't release a timeline on the grounds that doing so would restrict what they could do with the series and that they would much rather leave it up to the interpretation of the fans.

So there isn't a "true frame of reference or timeline" for the series in the sense that there is no absolute timeline. There is still a timeline (and it is certainly split since 2002), but it is in flux and the developers don't want to disclose details they aren't ready to confirm.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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Even after Twilight Princess was created, the creators of Zelda said there was no split timeline.
This guy named ocarinahero10 on YouTube made a video of the timeline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg

This is the response Nintendo gave him after he asked their opinion about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

The point in this video that proves that there's no split timeline is when it says "There isn't a true frame of reference or timeline possible for the series."

What are you talking about. Aonuma said after TP's release that WW runs parallel to TP (as Locke showed). That means that there is a split and that the two times cannot meet. Aonuma alos said (again, as Locke showed) after WW's release, as well, that there was a child and adult ending to OoT. You seriously need to check your facts before you go saying this stuff.

(Also, ocarinahero10 had no idea what he was talking about in that video. I've seen it before, and the whole thing was just contradiction after contradiction. Not that important at the moment, just thought I'd say it.)
 

Squirrel

The Rodent King
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
The Tree
What are you talking about. Aonuma said after TP's release that WW runs parallel to TP (as Locke showed). That means that there is a split and that the two times cannot meet. Aonuma alos said (again, as Locke showed) after WW's release, as well, that there was a child and adult ending to OoT. You seriously need to check your facts before you go saying this stuff.

(Also, ocarinahero10 had no idea what he was talking about in that video. I've seen it before, and the whole thing was just contradiction after contradiction. Not that important at the moment, just thought I'd say it.)

Yeah, but originally, they were not intending for a split timeline. They decided that there was one later on.

(I do agree that ocarinahero10 had no idea what he was talking about. This guy made a video -I can't find it anymore- called "ocarinahero10 is a moron".)
 

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