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The Hero of Time & the Hero's Shade

Smoore

The Rational Theist
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Location
Cdale
There have been many threads started about the Hero's Shade, but I have yet to see one that takes this approach. If this has been posted before, I am sorry. I haven't been around very long.

In Hyrule Historia, it is said that the Hero's Shade is the spirit of the Hero of Time. It does say that it is Link from the Ocarina of Time (OoT:Link), but it is almost insulting to him at the same time. Disregarding that book, my theory is that Link from Skyward Sword (SS:Link) is also the Hero of Time, and thus the Hero's Shade is the spirit of SS:Link and not OoT:Link.

OoT:Link has long been heralded as the Hero of Time. This is undisputed fact. He draws the Master Sword from the Pedestal of Time in the Temple of Time. When he plays the Song of Time on the Ocarina of Time, he is offering a prayer to the Goddess of Time. Link is able to defeat Ganon by traveling through time—sort of.

Initially, OoT:Link never travels through time. He simply sleeps for seven years. Ganondorf is still active during this time; Link just isn't mature enough to wield the Master Sword. Later on, Link does travel backward through time. But he is not going backward through time so much as he is rewinding it. If he were really traveling through time, he would maintain his age. Presumably, if he traveled 100 years in the future or 15 years in the past, he would cease to exist. His age matches the number of years passed, which means that he isn't really traveling through time. He's only fiddling with the dial on the clock, setting it forward or backward by seven years.

Now then, compare that with SS:Link. This Link travels through the Door of Time to go back a millennia. He remains the same age throughout, meaning he is literally traveling through time—not simply rewinding or fast-forwarding it. Also, he manipulates time in limited regions using the Timeshift Stones (supposedly the material of the Ocarina of Time). Finally, he saves the Goddess of Time from a thousand-year slumber and multiple attacks from The Imprisoned.

OoT:LinkSS:Link
Rewinds/Fast-fowards seven yearsTravels through a thousand years
Plays ocarina made of a Timeshift StoneManipulates fields of time using Timeshift Stones
Prays to the Goddess of Time for helpSaves the Goddess of Time

So, while SS:Link is never referred to as the Hero of Time, I think he definitely qualifies.

Now that we have established that, we can ask whether the Hero's Shade is OoT:Link (the popular opinion) or SS:Link. Referring to Hyrule Historia, it does identify the Hero of Time as OoT:Link.

Hyrule Historia said:
The ghost of his ancestor, the Hero of Time, teaches him secrets. Ever since returning to the child era, the Hero of Time had felt regret that he could not be remembered as a hero. Therefore, he addresses Link as his son and passes down the proof of courage and his secrets.

I'm not a huge fan of Hyrule Historia for other reasons, so while this is going against the published ideas of the creators, bear with me as I break away into speculation. First, I don't think OoT:Link is the kind of person to get upset if he is forgotten as a hero. Besides, consider what heroic things he did after rewinding time to the Child Era. He convinced the King of Hyrule that Ganondorf was wicked when Princess Zelda couldn't. He saved the entire world of Termina from utter ruin in three days. And supposedly he marries Malon and founds Ordon Village. He does all these things, and he is not remembered as a hero?? But even if he does slip into obscurity, a big ego is antithetical to Link. It seems silly and almost pathetic that the Hero of Time would be so desperate for recognition that he must teach his descendant his sword techniques to prove to somebody that he was a hero.

And on that note, if OoT:Link is the Hero's Shade, then where did he learn all of the attacks that he teaches to TP:Link? I know that this has been discussed many times before, but let's compare again.

SS:LinkOoT:Link
Ending Blow
Shield Attack
Back Slice
Helm Splitter
Mortal Draw☑*
Jump Strike
Great Spin
*SS:Link can do this and catch enemies off guard, but it's not a one-hit KO.

Neither SS:Link nor OoT:Link know all of these techniques, but OoT:Link knows none of them. SS:Link uses three (possibly four) of them. Again, he is the more likely candidate to be the Hero's Shade.

I want to point out the obvious that this is merely speculation. I know that the Hero's Spirit is *officially* OoT:Link, but there are a lot of other things in Hyrule Historia that are official too but don't make a lot of sense. Going against Nintendo's stated position, I believe that SS:Link is a much stronger candidate for the Hero's Shade and the moniker "Hero of Time."
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Ocarina of Time Link is considered to be the Hero of Time because he is the link (no pun intended) to both the past and future. To the save the future reigned by Ganon, Link must travel back in his time to access places that he could not as an adult. He not only saved the Adult Timeline but Child Timeline from evil as well, indicated when Zelda sends him to back to the past for the last time. This is why he's known as the Hero of Time. Skyward Sword Link is not the Hero of Time because the majority of the events happen in the present. Skyward Sword Link was not needed in the past till the very end of the game, his destiny resides in the present where he must find the Triforce and forge the Master Sword to destroy the Imprisoned in the present. In fact, had Ghirahim never captured Zelda, Link only needs to go back in time to talk to Zelda and plant a tree. Yes Link defeated Demise in the past, but the past is uneffected and continues as normal, all Link did was prevent Ghirahim from changing the past. If Skyward Sword Link defeated Demise during the time of Goddess Hylia, before Skyloft was created, then I would consider him to be Hero of Time for he saved two timelines as oppose to one. Not mention that the Timestones act more like resurrecting stones than portals to the past because one of the robots, Skipper, knew that he must stay to the stone or he'll die.
First, I don't think OoT:Link is the kind of person to get upset if he is forgotten as a hero. Besides, consider what heroic things he did after rewinding time to the Child Era. He convinced the King of Hyrule that Ganondorf was wicked when Princess Zelda couldn't. He saved the entire world of Termina from utter ruin in three days. And supposedly he marries Malon and founds Ordon Village. He does all these things, and he is not remembered as a hero?? But even if he does slip into obscurity, a big ego is antithetical to Link. It seems silly and almost pathetic that the Hero of Time would be so desperate for recognition that he must teach his descendant his sword techniques to prove to somebody that he was a hero.
The heroics of Child Timeline are small and minor compared to his heroics in Ocarina of Time. He did not fight Ganondorf in the Child Era, only warned Zelda of what is to come. His heroics in Majora's Mask are known to those in Termina, not Hyrule. What Ocarina of Time Link was really upset is that he never got the chance to pass the torch in his life. He wasn't needed in the Child Era for the evil that was to come was prevented by him. But Link knows that evil might come again that he may never live to see. So he wants to pass the skills he learned in his life to his successor so that the next hero would be prepared. Alas it never came to being and thus the Hero's Shade lived in regret that he could have contributed more to the world.

Skyward Sword Link, on the other hand, has no reason to regret anything. From the ending of Skyward Sword, his life could not be any happier. He and Zelda were reunited, the world was at peace, Demise and his army were destroyed, the Hylians began to discover the Surface, and the Triforce is in safe hands. The Hero's Shade exist because it is a ghost filled with unfinished buisness. If he is the Hero's Shade, why didn't he appear before MC Link, FS Link, or OoT Link and teach them his skills? Not to mention that all of techinque provides no proof. Wind Waker Link can do Helm Splinter, Back Slice, and Jump Attack yet he's not the Hero's Shade. The reason why Ocarina of Time Link did not use of these moves is because Ocarina of Time made was before Skyward Sword. 3D Limitations and out-dated controls prevents Ocarina of Time Link from using these attack. The first Zelda game just had Link stab in one direction that's it while the prequel, ALttP, Link can slash sideways and do a spin attack. You cannot use gameplay and graphics advancement as proof for your theory.
 
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Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Don't twist facts to suit theories; twist theories to fit the facts. I don't like evil in the world, but I can't make it go away by pretending it doesn't exist.

The "Hero of Time" is not simply a title given to whichever hero does the most time travel. It refers to a specific prophecy regarding OoT-Link drawing the MS, awakening the Sages, and binding evil. Only the latter portion of the prophecy could fit SS-Link, except that doesn't matter because the prophecy obviously hadn't been fulfilled yet before OoT-Link fulfilled it.

I would also like to reiterate Shadao's point that MM-Link has much more reason to be regretful than SS-Link, as described in the HH. That's pretty much the whole point of the hero's shade character. A lingering spirit whose life wasn't fulfilled in this timeline.
 

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Colombia
The Zelda Canon goes in a hierarchical order, stating, of course, with the games, then the manuals, then HH, then fan theories, if one conflicts with the previous one it can be assumed that part is false, fan theories can't disregard HH, no matter how little sense
 
Joined
May 13, 2012
By your logic Twilight Princesses Link could have been the Hero of Time because he time traveled to the old Temple of Time.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
The Zelda Canon goes in a hierarchical order, stating, of course, with the games, then the manuals, then HH, then fan theories, if one conflicts with the previous one it can be assumed that part is false, fan theories can't disregard HH, no matter how little sense
Careful with your order there! ;) For example, I disagree with your placement of manuals, and many things such as dev quotes and other official publications are missing. Canon is a debatable subject, though not one for this thread.

By your logic Twilight Princesses Link could have been the Hero of Time because he time traveled to the old Temple of Time.
Not really. That's even less time travel than OoT-Link.

@TS, I missed this last time: You explain that OoT-Link isn't the type of person to regret not fulfilling his "big ego". Are you claiming that SS-Link is? Do you have any support for that claim? Is SS-Link's ego bigger than MM-Link's, or did SS-Link do less heroic things than MM-Link? (I don't see an argument for the former, and with the latter, the opposite is true.)
 

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Colombia
Careful with your order there! ;) For example, I disagree with your placement of manuals, and many things such as dev quotes and other official publications are missing. Canon is a debatable subject, though not one for this thread.

I didn't add dev quotes because they frequently contradict themselves, and the manuals placement, yeah, that could be wrong, what I was doing was just putting what Canon goes above theories (for example, the CD-i games are less Canon than theories, if a theory contradicts with those, then we can s
assume the CD-i games are false, not the theory)

Also, what are the other "official publications", I'm only aware of HH


Anyway, time to stop the off-topic, the theory in itself holds little merit in my opinion
 

oshi_yoshi

Skyloftian Night Patrol
I can accept the HH statement.
Just because SSLink can do four of the seven hidden skills TPLink can means nothing. I say potato different than my mother, that doesnt mean we're not related.
SSLink had no regrets. He saved his people, the world and got the girl.
OoTLink is considered the greatest of the Links, so it's logical the Hero's Shade would be him.
And who's to say all Links didn't have the same spirit? Reincarnation? Maybe the Shade is from a different timeline.
Nintendo is god of these matters. I tweak my theories according to HH.
 

Smoore

The Rational Theist
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Location
Cdale
Thanks for the thoughts. I was just tossing around ideas. I know canonically it's not true, but I don't think that theorizing should die because Nintendo published the Zelda Bible. We have official records of all sorts of things in history, but that doesn't stop people from asking "What if?" questions and coming up with their own ideas.

Also, what is it with people completely disregarding HH lately? Whether you agree with it or not the HH is word of God in this regard. It cannot be denied as the ideas presented in that book are facts given from Nintendo themselves. Regardless of how much sense you believe your contradicting theories to make, ultimately, it's the HH that has the last word. People really need to bear that in mind before they make topics like this.

It's because Hyrule Historia has apparently squished all freedom to debate and theorize. True, it has the ultimate say on the official timeline, but it isn't perfect by any means, and some people like myself feel that some of the explanations were hastily thrown together without any real effort. Sure, it's a pretty book with a wealth of information, but that doesn't mean people can't toss around their own theories still. Up until last year, Nintendo said that they had no intentions to release a timeline at all. Then this book comes out, almost to secrecy, and suddenly no one can question it. Before it was published, people questioned and argued the meaning and importance of events that took place in-game, but the words of this book are beyond reproach. Besides, I did state that this is completely speculation and nothing more:

I want to point out the obvious that this is merely speculation. I know that the Hero's Spirit is *officially* OoT:Link, but there are a lot of other things in Hyrule Historia that are official too but don't make a lot of sense.

The Hero's Shade exist because it is a ghost filled with unfinished buisness. If he is the Hero's Shade, why didn't he appear before MC Link, FS Link, or OoT Link and teach them his skills? Not to mention that all of techinque provides no proof. Wind Waker Link can do Helm Splinter, Back Slice, and Jump Attack yet he's not the Hero's Shade. The reason why Ocarina of Time Link did not use of these moves is because Ocarina of Time made was before Skyward Sword. 3D Limitations and out-dated controls prevents Ocarina of Time Link from using these attack. The first Zelda game just had Link stab in one direction that's it while the prequel, ALttP, Link can slash sideways and do a spin attack. You cannot use gameplay and graphics advancement as proof for your theory.

I guess you have a point there. It's been a while since I played Twilight Princess, so I forgot that the Hero's Shade was specifically there out of regret. I was thinking he was just there to pass on his techniques. I didn't much think about why he skipped over the other Links, but just that SS:Link seems the likelier candidate. It is unrelated to this, but I have another theory that relates the Twili to Demise and Ghirahim. Unlike this theory, it does not contradict any in-game or published statement by Nintendo. Anyway, by that theory, there could be a reason for SS:Link to skip the others and talk to TP:Link. By that theory, the Twili are the descendants of the Demon Tribe (of whom only Ghirahim remained by the time of Skyward Sword). Since they were finally coming back to take revenge on Hyrule, they posed a greater threat than Ganondorf alone did. It was truly the return of Demise with his Demon hordes. Anyway, it's just speculation again, but it doesn't contradict anything else. It just fits several different stories together where no explanation existed before.

EDIT: One more thing I thought of just now. The Hero Shade's armor is unlike anything else Link wears. If SS:Link were the Hero's Shade, then the armor makes sense because Link would be the best candidate for the leader of Grooseland's new army, and the Hylians probably had a lot more enemies to defeat before the land became safe. They may have created more adequate armor for the knights now that their foes were Bokoblins and Moblins instead of the Octoroks they were used to in the sky.

I say potato different than my mother, that doesnt mean we're not related.

Actually… it does. Hate to break it to ya. :dry:
 
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Joined
Apr 6, 2011
EDIT: One more thing I thought of just now. The Hero Shade's armor is unlike anything else Link wears. If SS:Link were the Hero's Shade, then the armor makes sense because Link would be the best candidate for the leader of Grooseland's new army, and the Hylians probably had a lot more enemies to defeat before the land became safe. They may have created more adequate armor for the knights now that their foes were Bokoblins and Moblins instead of the Octoroks they were used to in the sky.

When it comes to graphics and art styles, The Legend of Zelda is one of many styles and choices and must be taken with a grain of salt. Legends are twisted in time, characters and locations may not resemble one another. TP Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf of Ocarina of Time yet he has pointed ears instead of round ears, not to mention that Ganondorf has all new look. Death Mountain moved from North to East and Zora's Domain moved from East to North. The armor of the Hero's Shade doesn't indicate that it is Skyward Sword Link. It is not even certain that this armor is even from the era of Skyward Sword. And you might want to consider that things that could that could doesn't mean it has happened. Perhaps of the Surface was already cleared out, perhaps all the Bokoblins are dead. If you still believe that it is still possible that it is from the Sky Era, then consider the possiblity that perhaps after Majora's Mask happens, the Hylians crafted new armor for their knights and the Hero of Time decided to wear them. There's no evidence proving it, but there's no evidence denying it either. And thus it is necessary that speculations need (untwisted) evidences for their claim, not just chance and what-ifs alone.

Thanks for the thoughts. I was just tossing around ideas. I know canonically it's not true, but I don't think that theorizing should die because Nintendo published the Zelda Bible. We have official records of all sorts of things in history, but that doesn't stop people from asking "What if?" questions and coming up with their own ideas.

Theorizing is not dead, not all. When a new Zelda game comes out, new theories pop out like a storm. We know where the games are in the Zelda Timeline, now we should figure out why they go there. Instead of speculating of old things like is Kaepora Gaebora really Rauru or is the Hero's Shade the Ocarina of Time, we should look at the new questions that Skyward Sword and Hyrule Historia brought up, like what happened in the Era of Chaos or are the Twili really descend from the demons of Skyward Sword.
 
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A

Anon

Guest
I for one don't find anything wrong with creating different theories that don't completely match up with HH. I agree with Smoore in that HH doesn't seem to be flawless. And, like with many other history accounts, perhaps Hyrule Historia is hypothetically based on "history books" of hylians and so should also be taken with a grain of salt. Who knows.

Now, I can't really say whether the Hero's Shade is more like SS Link or OoT Link because I haven't played SS yet. But I also wondered about the armor that The Hero's Shade was wearing. Like someone else had mentioned maybe OoT Link became a knight later on. However I find it odd that The Hero's Shade, a Stalfos, is said to be the Hero of Time, but there is nothing about his appearance that associates him with the Hero of Time (granted he's kinda dead, but still). Link, in every game, is always wearing his iconic green garb. It helps identify him. I don't really have a theory to answer the riddle of The Hero's Shade, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who was bothered by his un-Link like appearance. Not even a triforce of courage, or ANYTHING that links him to The Hero of Time other than his words. Not saying he's a liar, but it just peeved me.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Location
Utah
There's one thing that your forgetting that disproves your theory.

In TWW intro, it's obviously talking about OoT's story, more noticeably adult Link's story and it specifically says "This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as The Hero of Time". You said you disregard HH because it said that the Hero's Shade is the spirit of the Hero of Time, yet you can't disregard this and this was way before HH so it has already been proven OoT Link was The Hero of Time almost 10 years ago.
 

Smoore

The Rational Theist
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Location
Cdale
Maybe I shouldn't come back to this after it being buried a few days, but I've been away. Anyway, I've been playing Ocarina of Time 3D: Master Quest lately, and I just came to the point where Link enters the Sacred Realm for the first time after pulling out the Master Sword. Rauru tells Link, "Only one worthy of the title of 'Hero of Time' can pull it from the Pedestal of Time…." Of course Nintendo wasn't planning on making Skyward Sword at the time of making Ocarina of Time, but to me this sounds like the title Hero of Time already existed, and Link needed to be older to earn it. The Master Sword was locked in the Pedestal of Time ever since Skyward Sword, and the only one worthy of wielding it had to resemble its former master—SS:Link. Through this, OoT:Link would become worthy of being the Hero of Time.

A little bit later, Sheik tells Link, "You really do look like the Hero of Time." This wording is just awkward unless there is a previous Hero of Time like whom Link could look.

Just food for thought.

There's one thing that your forgetting that disproves your theory.

In TWW intro, it's obviously talking about OoT's story, more noticeably adult Link's story and it specifically says "This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as The Hero of Time". You said you disregard HH because it said that the Hero's Shade is the spirit of the Hero of Time, yet you can't disregard this and this was way before HH so it has already been proven OoT Link was The Hero of Time almost 10 years ago.

How does that disprove my theory? I never said OoT:Link wasn't the Hero of Time or that he didn't travel through time. All I'm saying is that SS:Link could also be a Hero of Time, even if not given that title in the game itself.
 
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Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Location
Utah
How does that disprove my theory? All I'm saying is that SS:Link could also be a Hero of Time, even if not given that title in the game itself.

Because OoT Link is only given the title the Hero of Time in game so we have evidence that OoT Link is only the Hero of Time. If Nintendo wanted to also give that title to SS Link, they could have easily done it so that we know there's more than 1 Hero of Time but they didn't hence why I think it disproves your theory. Oh and they already confirmed in HH that OoT Link is indeed the Hero's Shade which you said yourself you are disregarding. That's official as it's going to get right now.

I never said OoT:Link wasn't the Hero of Time

According to your chart comparing SS Link to OoT Link, I think that's exactly what your saying.
 

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