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The Girl Monkey in TP=Saria

Vanessa28

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Ruto was killed when they tried to seal Gannondorf in the Twilight Realm
No that's not true. After the events in OoT Link was sent back to his own time and because he informed Zelda in time none of these events happened so Ruto was never a Sage in CT. This has been stated by others before. So Ruto could not have been the Sage.

So the Monkey is not Saria. As you have noticed all the monkeys look the same. All have the same flower behind their ear. These were just monkeys living there and willing to help Link since he helped them to escape. We don't know saria is immortal. She is a Kokiri and they stay kids forever but none of us know if they are immortal. And the fact they don't leave the forest because they could get killed I assume they are far from immortal. It is okay to write down your theory but you must make sure you can provide evidence when you state facts like this ;)
 
No she wasn't. In the Child Timeline, Ruto was not awakened as a sage. None of the sages from Ocarina of Time are sages in Twilight Princess.



When does it say the Kokiri live forever? I know they don't age but I never saw that as meaning they were immortal. Is there a quote or something in Hyrule Historia maybe?


I don't think Saria became a monkey. In the Child Timeline she isn't a sage and so isn't any more special than the other Kokiri and it just seems farfetched with no evidence to support it.
Whether or not the Kokiri are immortal is highly speculative and all hypotheses stem from this quote, "“That's because the Kokiri never grow up!". Not growing up, however, does not imply immortality.

Also, Koroks from the Wind Waker are basically evolved Kokiri if you believe in that stuff. If that is true, then either the Kokiri live very long or are indeed immortal. Once again. there is no concrete evidence here.
 

Locke

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In regards to Kokiri immortality...
Miyamoto said:
Link is a child of a race of elves called "Kokili." For some reason or another, there are no parents in this race, only many children of the same age. All of a sudden, they grow up until they reach a certain age, when they disappear. The next generation is born just as abruptly. So at some point, Link will disappear.
This quote is from 1997, while OoT was still in development, and is obviously incorrect on at least the account that Link is a Kokiri, so take it with a grain of salt. With no more recent description (even in the game itself) to retcon this, I take this as the canon description of the Kokiri life cycle, leaving out the bits about Link. So no, I don't think that we can take for granted that Saria would have lived that long just because she doesn't grow up.
 
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Since when were there sages before OoT? I've never seen any proof that this is true. If there were sages before OoT, don't you think they'd be mentioned somewhere in that game? I could be wrong. We all know how ambiguous the continuity of the series is.
"I am Rauru, one of the ancient
Sages...
Ages ago, we ancient Sages
built the Temple of Time to
protect the entrance to the
Sacred Realm..."
This. ↑ Aside from that, Hyrule Historia goes into further detail, and chronicles the events that took place [in the SS era] regarding the Ancient Sages and such.

On topic: Sure, there are a few remnants of the Kokiri to be found in Twilight Princess; the Kokiri emblem, etc. [also mentioned in Hyrule Historia] However, there was virtually nothing in the game that suggested that Saria, let alone the Kokiri, became monkeys. It is more probable that they died out or became spirits of some kind. At best, I'd say the [personalities of the] monkeys' purpose may have served to convey the Kokiri in such a way that it'd be a loose reference to them, but even that is a stretch.
 

Smoore

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I believe the Kokiri either became the Monkeys or the Puppets, but I think Saria had already died. Rauru is the only Sage who didn't need to be awakened, and is probably the only ancient Sage who survived Ganondorf's rise to power.

My guess is that after the Child ending of Ocarina of Time, Humans settled the Lost Woods because the Deku Tree had died, but the Deku Sprout was never planted. The Kokiri, already fading without the Deku Tree to sustain them, did one of two things: transform into Monkeys or take up arms to protect their home. If they did the latter, then they are the Puppets who serve the Skull Kid. It's plausible that they turned to him after the Deku Tree died, and now are his slaves.
 

Cfrock

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My guess is that after the Child ending of Ocarina of Time, Humans settled the Lost Woods because the Deku Tree had died, but the Deku Sprout was never planted. The Kokiri, already fading without the Deku Tree to sustain them, did one of two things: transform into Monkeys or take up arms to protect their home. If they did the latter, then they are the Puppets who serve the Skull Kid. It's plausible that they turned to him after the Deku Tree died, and now are his slaves.
I saw your post in another thread about this and now that I've seen you explain it further, I'm close to agreeing with it. You've made a good point that in the Child timeline the Deku Sprout was never planted and the Great Deku Tree would still have died (after all, Ganondorf was still at large until Link warned Zelda) so it makes sense that the Kokiri would have faced crisis as a result. Quotes from Ocarina of Time suggest that the Kokiri's life depends on the Great Deku Tree, at least to a certain point.

Whether they turned to the Skull Kid for help or whether the Skull Kid took advantage of the stricken Kokiri is unclear but the Kokiri ending up as his puppets is an attractively dark fate for them. I fits well with the dark tone of Twilight Princess too.
 

Cfrock

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Why wouldn't a sprout be planted when the GDT dies? You're twisting facts to suit theories.
There's nothing to say the sprout didn't show up after 7 years in the Child Timeline as well except the fact the Great Deku Tree never shows up again in that timeline the way he does in the Adult Timeline. So I think it's not unreasonable to assume the sprout was not planted.
 

felipe970421

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Why can't they be the same? You put your opinion forth like his is an obvious mistake. I think it's a pretty fair assumption, and if you can't produce any evidence otherwise I'd say the two contentions are just as likely as one another.
I said please because someone else had already stated that Ruto was only a sage in the AT
 

SuperMetroid

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"I am Rauru, one of the ancient
Sages...
Ages ago, we ancient Sages
built the Temple of Time to
protect the entrance to the
Sacred Realm..."
I eat my words in shame :facepalm:

Despite that, I don't understand why Ruto definitely can't be the Sage of Water in OoT. Again, there's probably an obvious answer to this, but I would assume that the Sages in OoT carry on over both timelines. I'm still in the process of reading Hyrule Historia, so I'm sorry if I've missed something (again...)
 

felipe970421

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I eat my words in shame :facepalm:

Despite that, I don't understand why Ruto definitely can't be the Sage of Water in OoT. Again, there's probably an obvious answer to this, but I would assume that the Sages in OoT carry on over both timelines. I'm still in the process of reading Hyrule Historia, so I'm sorry if I've missed something (again...)
The reason is that the sages were awakened by link as an adult, in the child era they are never awakened, so they are only regular folk in the CT
 

r2d93

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I actually do like this theory. This raises the question however, how did Saria transform into a monkey?

And people need to realize that in the Child Timeline, Link never went to awaken the sages he did (saria, ruto, nabooru, etc.). Therefor, in this timeline they were never sages
 

SuperMetroid

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The reason is that the sages were awakened by link as an adult, in the child era they are never awakened, so they are only regular folk in the CT
But I always had the belief that the Sages needed awakening by Link because the evil of Ganondorf was preventing them to awaken without him. That would meant that without Link, they'd just awaken naturally. You could argue that the sages only need awakening when Hyrule is in danger, but I'd take an educated guess in saying that the Sages in Twilight Princess were around before Ganon came about. Which means that there's little reason that I can see why OoT's Sages aren't TP's sages.
 

Akuhime-sama

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How do you know that it was ruto who was killed? All the sages looked the same to me o_0. Also, I am very against the whole "Kokiri become monkeys" idea. If I did believe in that, I think you would be right.
Just so you know, if you look closely, every sage in Twilight Princess has a different element.
If you look on the pillars in which they stand, you will see the emblems of the different medallions that you receive from each sage in OoT.
Also, they show a cutscene in witch they show the dead sage's post broken, and shows its element.
So maybe he saw that it was the water emblem that had a dead sage (none there) and made the connection back to OoT with Ruto?

I really can't remember which post had no sage atop it, but after I clear Arbiters Grounds on this file, I shall pay attention to it. :3



Edit: Oh I did get there, and sure enough, the Water sage was the one Gannon killed.
ALSO, on the sages themselves, they have the symbol of their element.
It's on their clothes.


But yes, I really don't see the connection with the monkey xP
 
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