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The Evolution of the Gerudo, Kokiri, and Other Races.

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
Here we try to understand the origin of the tribes who have no real origin. There are a lot of unexplained events and strange allusions found in the games that beg for explanation.

I propose that the Gerudo are an offshoot of the Hylians. I believe they were left behind when the goddess took the Hylians to the sky. They fled Demise and headed west into the desert. Here they developed into a different race. In the hot climate and intense sun, they developed their distinct dark color. I also noticed that Impa from SS resembles a Gerudo. I think either the original Sheikah were Gerudo, or that they lived with the Gerudo during the time when the Hylians were in the sky.

I also think the Kokiri were children that fled from Demise when he killed their parents. Demise may have been pursuing them Southeast from where the central landmass had been lifted. They must have fled deeper into the woods and found the Great Deku Tree. He likely decided to take them in and protect them with magic. His influence protected them from aging and even kept them from leaving his protection in the forest. This spell was broken when he died, but his son kept the legacy going. He transformed the Kokiri into the Korok, so that they could live on as a race.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
I was under the assumption that the Kikwi from Skyward Sword became the Kokiri once The Great Deku Tree came into the picture he gave them the cute child-like form in Ocarina of Time and then after the race became attatched to the Great Deku Tree leaving the forest turned them into the tree-like Koroks. Very similar to the Parella-Zora-Rito evolution. As for the Gerudo it's pretty obvious that they have some sort of Hylian ancestry. I also love your thoughts on the Sheikah-Gerudo relationship. It's interesting to note that the Gerudo are also the only other race shown to use sorcery. I've always had a theory revolving around the Sheikah and the Dark Interlopers and this may be the missing piece I needed. Allow to do a bit of research and I'll be back.
 

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Colombia
Allow me to quote myself from another thread

The Gerudo? Well, Groose shares many similarities with the Gerudo, sure, it's veeeery easy to poke holes in this, but nevertheless interesting

The Kokiri? Kikwi Kikwi Kikwi, for 3 reasons

1) The names are similar, I don't know Japanese so I don't know if their names are similar in that language, but those Ks....
2) They are both forest creatures, sure, hardly conclusive, but it supports the idea
3) The Kokiri later evolve into the Koroks, that again make use of the K and look fairly similar to the Kikwi, this proves that such radical transformations aren't beyond the abilities of the Kikwi/Kokiri/Koroks

Sorry for the "double post" but this post is more relevant here, when you read this, the post in that thread will probably be deleted
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
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Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
Nice to see you made the thread ;)

Yeah I think even though your theory on the Kokiri seems logical I to agree that the Kikwi are descendent's of the Kokiri tribe we know in OoT. First of all there is the idea that the names of the tribes are similar Kikwi, Kokiri, Korok Etc. Now we know of an official connection between the Kokiri and the Koroks, this is confirmed within the game and by HH. It says that the Kokiri needed to adapt to survive the great flood, so there were gifted the transformation via Deku Leaf. So the fact that the Kokiri and the Kikwi look different isn't a valid argument as some people say because the Koroks appearance is vastly different to the original Kokiri tribe. There is also the fact that the 3 tribes share some other similarities, they reside within the forests of Hyrule and they all have head figures. Saria and Makar are both sages in OoT and TWW but there is also an outline of Kikwi in the opening scene in SS. This opening scene seems to have the leaders of the tribes at that current times maybe these are the first version of the sages....I doubt that they are Hylians due to the physical features as Hylians have pointy ears to hear messages from the Gods, also why would the union of sages have two members from the same race? I thought that each was to represent their specific race.

As for your Gerudo theory I think you make some great points on the origins of the Gerudo Tribe and I too have also thought about that they were originally Hylians but forced to move due to one of the major wars before OoT. I also think that a curse was put on the tribe to stop them conceiving and ultimately kill of their race. However they adapted to the harsh desert and their curse and this is why they have a sense of hatred towards the Hylians as shown by Ganondorf and Twinrova.
 

DekuPrincess

Are you serious?!?
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In a bottle
I like your theory about the Gerudo/Sheikah connection, however, if the Gerudo are already living in the dessert at the time of SS where are they? Are they simply further off into the dessert than we had a chance to explore? Do they know about Timeshift stones? I find it more likely that they split off from the Hylian society that was established at the end of SS.

Problematically, this doesn't help explain where Impa came from unless she originates from a future Gerudo/Sheikah tribe and there is even more time travel craziness going on than we thought.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Ok, I read up on a couple of things and this is what I think about it, This is all speculation because I haven't found many concrete facts about it but like I said in my last post the Gerudo and the Sheikah are the only tribes shown in Hyrule to have sorcerers. Let's also point out that the Dark Interlopers from Twilight Princess were said to be sorcerers. So assuming the Gerudo didn't exist in SS we can say the only tribe (although only one is seen in SS it's likely the rest of the Sheikah are somewhere) of sorcerers in SS was the Sheikah. Now, I believe that the Sheikah being servants to the royal family were very active throughout the wars between SS and OoT. I personally believe the Shiekah never fought as simple foot soldiers but took higher roles the example I'd like to use is being Guards for Hyrule's only POW camp, the Shadow Temple (the term shadow seems to instantly connect it with the Sheikah).
I can't prove the exact use of the Shadow Temple but the torture devices and countless blood splattering seem to give it a very dark history. I feel the Sheikah would go to town wearing Masks of Truth (the reason why all adults in Castle Town seem terrified of the mask) to pick up suspected traitors to the Royal Kingdom and take them to the Shadow Temple to interrogate them. The Shadow Temple seems to house secrets the Hylians are afraid of, such as actions that they may now regret. Now the Sheikah could use their Eye of Truth to exit the temple but the illusions and puzzles proved too much for the prisoners to take forcing them to wander the Shadow Temple eternally. Now the Sheikah were a pure people by nature made by the Goddesses to serve the Royal Family. After so long certain Sheikah began being tempted toward darkness by the massive amounts of negative energy these lives (many innocent) lost left behind. This is when some of the Sheikah decided to take the triforce in order to overtake the Hyrule to end the wars. And of course they failed upon reaching the Triforce the Dark Interlopers were imprisoned in a dimension of shadow, the Twilight Realm. As punishment for their tribes actions, the remaining Sheikah were banished to the harsh desert no longer children of the goddess, spare for a lone Sheikah to protect the Spirit of Hylia. Seeing as Spirits had become their downfall the now-renamed Gerudo earned a tremendous respect for the spirits and built a temple for their worship (which later became a prison, ok I'm straight pushing my luck).
This explains the lack of Sheikah after the so-called Interloper War (Which I believe to be the equivalent of the Hyrulian Civil War and Unification War, due to at the time of the war the Hylians and Sheikah were the only people under the crown and later in OoT and all the races seem to be very peaceful with each other aside from the Gerudo). Those banished by the Goddesses and forced into thievery to survive their exile. However, the Goddesses offered them a chance at redemption. Every one hundred years they were offered a King to groom into the one who would allow them back into Hyrule, however, after the wars the first chance they were given was Ganondorf who the witches Koume and Kotake raised to be the man we know in OoT. Ganondorf convinced the Gerudo the only way to get back into Hyrule was to take it for themselves. OoT happened.
I know that drifted from simple speculation to straight up fan-fic but yeah... I hope someone actually reads all this :(
 

DekuPrincess

Are you serious?!?
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I quite like your idea that the Shadow Temple was a POW camp, and the scenario in which the Sheikah use the masks of truth to hide their identities while carrying out investigations. I'm not sure that I completely agree with your conclusions, but I did read it all :)
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
From what I can gather, it seems that the Dark Interlopers, the Shiekah, and the Gerudo are all interconnected somehow. Perhaps it was that they were all originally the same race at one point. Perhaps sometime before SS a fraction of them tried to take the Triforce by force and were thus driven from Hyrule into the Twilight Realm. Those that did not rebel at that time remained in the Lanayru region and developed the advanced culture found there. Then at some time during the apocalyptic events that Demise brought about, a branch of them defected from the service to the Goddesses and became the pirates; this would be the Gerudos. I'm not sure where they were during the events of SS, it seems to me that the Sand Sea was much larger than what was shown to us, and that the Gerudos left their fortress and retreated further westward. I'm also not sure where the Goddess of the Sands came about, perhaps at some point they developed this new religion based off their ancestor's accounts of Nayru.

That, or Groose is the grand ancestor to the entire Gerudo race. Idunno, maybe he's just a ginger...

As for the Kokiri, I just assumed that they followed the evolution of Kikwi-Kokiri-Korok, same as the Parella-Zora-Rito evolution.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
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Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Replying to these here since they're way off-topic in that other thread.

It is stated in Hyrule Historia that the Parella evolved into the Zora.
There is a srong argument to support this as stated in*HH*"during the Era of Chaos a transformation took place involving the Zora descendants"
These are false. In fact it states quite the opposite:
HH page 48 said:
The Phantom Zora: We originally planned to have a race that closely resembled the Zora, but we were told to design a more primitive race, and the idea was rejected.
justacoolguy, I believe you saw that quote not in the HH but on Zelda Wiki. Furthermore, Zelda Wiki defends the claim using a quote from the Shogakukan HH which was both taken out of context and mistranslated.
fan translation of Shogakukan said:
The New Appearance of the Kokiri and the Zora: In the Era of the Mighty Ocean, the appearance of some races suffered a big change in comparison to the Era of Chaos. The Kokiri turned into the Korok, a race that looks like plants and helps the spirit of the Great Deku Tree to plant trees around the world. The Zora became the so-called Rito, a race that has beaks like birds and grows wings with the scale the spirit Valoo gives them.
The quote is referring to the transformation from Zora to Rito, not that of any other race (i.e. Parella) to Zora. As for the mention of the Era of Chaos, the official translators used the more proper translation of "tumultuous eras of the past." The Japanese text for "The Era of the Mighty Ocean" is 大海原時代, while the text in question is 混沌の時代. The former is literally "Mighty (大) Ocean (海原) Era/Age (時代)", a proper title for the specific era. The latter uses the particle の to describe "an era/age (時代) of (の) chaos (混沌)". In the same way, 東京の大学 (Tokyo no daigaku) describes "a [arbitrary] university in Tokyo" while 東京大学 (Tokyo Daigaku) refers to the specific university called "Tokyo Daigaku".
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
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Gender
Shewhale
Replying to these here since they're way off-topic in that other thread.



These are false. In fact it states quite the opposite:

justacoolguy, I believe you saw that quote not in the HH but on Zelda Wiki. Furthermore, Zelda Wiki defends the claim using a quote from the Shogakukan HH which was both taken out of context and mistranslated.
The quote is referring to the transformation from Zora to Rito, not that of any other race (i.e. Parella) to Zora. As for the mention of the Era of Chaos, the official translators used the more proper translation of "tumultuous eras of the past." The Japanese text for "The Era of the Mighty Ocean" is 大海原時代, while the text in question is 混沌の時代. The former is literally "Mighty (大) Ocean (海原) Era/Age (時代)", a proper title for the specific era. The latter uses the particle の to describe "an era/age (時代) of (の) chaos (混沌)". In the same way, 東京の大学 (Tokyo no daigaku) describes "a [arbitrary] university in Tokyo" while 東京大学 (Tokyo Daigaku) refers to the specific university called "Tokyo Daigaku".

Well after looking further into finding that quote I missed out the keyword that HH Hinted of this possible transformation. So it seems that this topic is still up for debate then since there is no major water race between SS and OoT.
 
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DekuPrincess

Are you serious?!?
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Location
In a bottle
I believe you saw that quote not in the HH but on Zelda Wiki. Furthermore, Zelda Wiki defends the claim using a quote from the Shogakukan HH which was both taken out of context and mistranslated.

Thanks for clarifying. I, too, saw the Zelda Wiki reference to HH stating the Zora evolved from the Parella. Hopefully someone over there gets it fixed!
 

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