The Dark Tribe (Read First Page Before Posting)

[ChargewithSword]

Ah yes, the Dark Tribe, the second greatest known factor of evil in the world. Yet I never see a thread of theories about them. Well this must at least be a first wide spread thread.

There have been many pokes at them and the many troubles lying in the world, but do they still exist today? I'm not talking about the Twili, there must be someone who still follows their ways today. One possible subject is our favorite wizard Agahnim. I believe that perhaps Agahnim is somehow related to the dark tribe as even he states in one of his sentences.

"With this, the seal of the seven wise men is at last broken. It is now only a matter of time before evil power covers this land... After all, the legendary Hero cannot defeat us, the tribe of evil, when we are armed with the Power of Gold."- A Link to The Past, Agahnim

This seems to be a hint on it. Now some of you may be thinking "But Agahnim was made before TP he may just be referencing Ganon's minions." Now that could be true but however let me put it in a way like this, "What if Agahnim wasn't originally designed to be a part of that Tribe but that was made in order to strentghen the Link between Alltp and TP." Why do the Twili seem to resemble Agahnim in skin color and large body mass? Both also seem well equipped in magic. It is possible that Anouma wanted the Twili to resemble Agahnim to make a link between TP and Alltp.


Now that, that converse is up for discussion time to move on to the next.

"Are the Twili the descendants of the Dark Tribe from Termina." I say yes.

Midna once states that she is from a tribe that attempted to reach the sacred realm and defy the gods hundreds (estimation) of years ago and were punished. Now it's said from the Happy Mask salesman that the Dark Tribe from Termina had disappeared one day? He did not say that Majora destroyed them but that they just disappeared, so I have a theory.

The sacred realm is just one dimension. It does not matter where you try to reach it from, it only matters that you are trying to get there. What if the Dark Tribe had attempted to defy the goddesses using the Stone Tower Temple (as said in that theory in ZU) and were punished for it by being sent to the Twilight Realm. The only thing that was left behind in the Godessess Wrath was "one weapon." That was the spirit of Majora imprisoned in the mask.

Another theory open for discussion.


One last one before I leave theories to others it is about the two weapons of the known Dark Tribes.

I believe that both Majora

and the Fused Shadow are somehow connected...

This is both by the design and their powers. The fused shadow and Majora bare similar design in their eyes. Now before you go saying "A lot of designs look like that in Zelda." have you ever seen a design in such a perfect matching proportion, near same size, the same angle, so close to each other it's not even funny?
They also bare similar powers, while Majora may conjure up moons, it seems to grant it's users great power as well as long as they can control it.
The Fused Shadows seem to have a near same effect that poisons the environments and can control their users if they don't have enough will power.
I think that if Midna had not been strong enough to control the Fused Shadows, a lot of destruction would have gone through Hyrule without much to stop it aside from the Triforce users.

The last one I have up for debate, feel free to make your own theories and argue with mine, just be a good sport.

 

[Zemen]

the eyeball on the fused shadow is squintier than majoras mask. also, ALTTP takes place on the AT. the BS for it is about the seal war and the creators have confirmed that OoT is the Seal War (the adult part) which means that ALTTP has to be on the AT, therefor, there would be no connection with TP because they are on seperate timelines.

wanna know why the eyes are similar? because that design is used for a lot of things in the Zelda games. theres only so many ways to design an eye.

 

[ChargewithSword]

the eyeball on the fused shadow is squintier than majoras mask. also, ALTTP takes place on the AT. the BS for it is about the seal war and the creators have confirmed that OoT is the Seal War (the adult part) which means that ALTTP has to be on the AT, therefor, there would be no connection with TP because they are on seperate timelines.

wanna know why the eyes are similar? because that design is used for a lot of things in the Zelda games. theres only so many ways to design an eye.

It's the position they are in as well Zemen. They each have that slanted positions and near perfect formation while all the other eyes in the series happen to be in positions that happen to make them different. Both weapons were also crafted by a certain tribe that wanted power, what's to say that they aren't created by the same one.

The seal war did happen to take place in Twilight Princess in a smaller fashion than OOT. If Alttp was on the other timeline, then tell me where does it fit in between OOT and WW? Ganon was killed in Alttp, and thus he couldn't have been in WW, he was killed in WW so it can't be after. And even then why is the Master sword in the forest if Alttp happened after WW which shows the sword at the bottom of the sea. Plus if it happened in between then of course there would be no Ganon in WW.

In TP seven sages (technically now 6 but that doesn't stop them from having descendants) had banished Ganondorf into the twilight darkness. He may have died in this game too but however the Triforce appears to leave him, this may mean that Ganon has taken a will of his own and gone to become his own entitiy without his human body.

 

[MOS3]

Wow, this is really good....now I'm not familiar with official nintendo statements about a true timeline, but to me, if OoT is the first one (I'm not gonna name every game since I've not played them all) and MM goes into another timeline direction....TP could be a sequel to Oot....then we would have ALttP.....if you look at the place where the Master Sword "rests", we have a full temple in OoT...a destroyed one in TP (from what I've read, haven't played the game yet) and just the pedestal in a forest in ALttP....that could be a "proof" of time passing and one game being after the other....now I'm not sure how WW fits in this mess. As for the dark tribe theory...sounds pretty fair to me.....we know for sure parallel dimensions can be accesed, so perhaps they did vanish from one (due to the goddess' punishment) and ended upt in TP as another tribe or whatever.

 

[Zemen]

It's the position they are in as well Zemen. They each have that slanted positions and near perfect formation while all the other eyes in the series happen to be in positions that happen to make them different. Both weapons were also crafted by a certain tribe that wanted power, what's to say that they aren't created by the same one.

The seal war did happen to take place in Twilight Princess in a smaller fashion than OOT. If Alttp was on the other timeline, then tell me where does it fit in between OOT and WW? Ganon was killed in Alttp, and thus he couldn't have been in WW, he was killed in WW so it can't be after. And even then why is the Master sword in the forest if Alttp happened after WW which shows the sword at the bottom of the sea. Plus if it happened in between then of course there would be no Ganon in WW.

In TP seven sages (technically now 6 but that doesn't stop them from having descendants) had banished Ganondorf into the twilight darkness. He may have died in this game too but however the Triforce appears to leave him, this may mean that Ganon has taken a will of his own and gone to become his own entitiy without his human body.

hmmm i dont recall saying that ALTTP takes place between OoT and WW. i said that the BS (back story) for ALTTP takes place. the BS for ALTTP talks about the seal war which has be CONFIRMED BY CREATORS to be the adult portion of OoT so....youre wrong...

im not saying the eyes dont resemble each other. whats the difference though? who cares what angle the eye is at. it coul just be the way they wanted the fused shadow to look. there is a thread that talks about the two. i used to think that they were made by the same person or even they are the same mask just altered until i just realized it didnt make much sense.

designs are just that, designs.

 

[ChargewithSword]

hmmm i dont recall saying that ALTTP takes place between OoT and WW. i said that the BS (back story) for ALTTP takes place. the BS for ALTTP talks about the seal war which has be CONFIRMED BY CREATORS to be the adult portion of OoT so....youre wrong...

im not saying the eyes dont resemble each other. whats the difference though? who cares what angle the eye is at. it coul just be the way they wanted the fused shadow to look. there is a thread that talks about the two. i used to think that they were made by the same person or even they are the same mask just altered until i just realized it didnt make much sense.

designs are just that, designs.

Don't sound so blunt, the creators have contradicted each other before, it's not always right. Besides it wouldn't make sense if Alttp was in the Adult timeline since the Master sword is gone.


The angle makes the eye stand out, it's a sense of art and keeping with a certain look. If they didn't want such a strong relation between the shadows and the mask why did they not make the eye straight? Designs have purpose a lot of times, the designs of characters are sometimes based around something and the items are sometimes based around myths.

 

[Zemen]

Don't sound so blunt, the creators have contradicted each other before, it's not always right. Besides it wouldn't make sense if Alttp was in the Adult timeline since the Master sword is gone.


The angle makes the eye stand out, it's a sense of art and keeping with a certain look. If they didn't want such a strong relation between the shadows and the mask why did they not make the eye straight? Designs have purpose a lot of times, the designs of characters are sometimes based around something and the items are sometimes based around myths.

you have absolutely no idea how much time could go between WW and ALTTP. there could be hundreds, maybe even a thousand years between the two games. A LOT can happen within that time that would change the placement of the master sword. once again im gonna say "so what" to the eye similarities. there is a fourth triforce piece on the shield in OoT, does that mean there is a fourth triforce piece? apparently image means so much to you but we know that there is no fourth triforce piece. you have a well thought out theory but something like that can be best explained by saying the creators were lazy and they reused the design of the eye just like they have so much in the past.

 

[ChargewithSword]

you have absolutely no idea how much time could go between WW and ALTTP. there could be hundreds, maybe even a thousand years between the two games. A LOT can happen within that time that would change the placement of the master sword. once again im gonna say "so what" to the eye similarities. there is a fourth triforce piece on the shield in OoT, does that mean there is a fourth triforce piece? apparently image means so much to you but we know that there is no fourth triforce piece. you have a well thought out theory but something like that can be best explained by saying the creators were lazy and they reused the design of the eye just like they have so much in the past.

Zemen... the design of main quest objects always have a reason and usually more than not have an inpiration. They have not reused the eye before, Vaati's eye isn't squinting, Bellum's is just a big circle, the Sheikah eye has a tear in it, nightmare was also just a stupid oval.
*Facepalm* Ganon was imprisoned in the sacred realm in OOT. If the Dark World is technically the sacred realm and you kill Ganon in it. Why is he in WW? Explain why he is not dead please. Also don't forget about Alttp's ending "And the Master Sword sleeps FOREVER!"

 

[Skull_Kid]

the eyeball on the fused shadow is squintier than majoras mask. also, ALTTP takes place on the AT. the BS for it is about the seal war and the creators have confirmed that OoT is the Seal War (the adult part) which means that ALTTP has to be on the AT, therefor, there would be no connection with TP because they are on seperate timelines.

wanna know why the eyes are similar? because that design is used for a lot of things in the Zelda games. theres only so many ways to design an eye.

You can say for sure that ALttP is on the AT,imo it is NOT!

Anyways, not much is known about the Dark Tribe... I also noticed that you didn't mention the Zunas from FSA, wich also mention a dark tribe and are very similar to Aghanim in both clothing and skin color.
They also say that the tribe from wich they descend created the Trident of Power used by Ganon

 

[skullkidsreveng]

Personally I don't think there is just one "dark tribe".

This is because there are three main "candidates" for the dark tribe that I can think of.

1: The Shekieh
- They are usually looked as being involved with the shadow and darkness.
2: The Twili
-known to be the conjurers of the fused shadow, these folks are VERY likley to be at least involved
3: Though not looked at much, the Garo Tribe could have easily been the Tribe described by the happy mask salesman in this quote

"The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask. It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals... The ancient ones...sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse. But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished..."

But has it really vanished? The Garo seem like a very likely candidate for this ancient tribe as there seems to be limitless amounts of paintings and memorials that have the Majorahs Mask on it and around the stone tower where the Garo reside.

When Lanaru begins telling the story of how the Fused Shadow was created, it mentions that there was a war and then a failed attempt to snatch the Triforce using the Fused Shadow. It was said that the Dark Interlopers where those who were attempting to steal the triforce by getting through into the Sacred realm. When the light spirits intervened they "sealed away the great magic those individuals had mastered" aka the fused shadow.
We learn later in the game the dark interlopers where cursed to the twilight realm and became the Twilite. HOWEVER a key word that lies in the story told by Lanaru is in this quote.

"Among those living in the light , interlopers who excelled at magic appeared.

This is how Lanaru introduces the Dark Interlopers.
The key part here is that these creatures lived in the light, and where not previously in the Twilight realm. This means they where likely already a race or group in Hyrule. Plus if you look, the Dark interlopers being based on shadow link, have red eyes. So does Midna's true form and Veran who is sometimes considered to be a member of the Dark Tribe. ALSO you can see a eye that looks suspiciously like the Shekieh symbol on both Veran’s and Agahnim’s clothes, along with another almost-Shekieh-design in the Zant's thrown room in the Twilight realm.

You can probably see where I'm going with this, The Dark Tribe seems to be very involved with darkness, Shekieh symbols, and red eyes. Who does this make you think of?

Yes, the Shekieh are DEFINITLY involved.

And, if TP takes place about a hundred years after OoT, and the war mentioned by Lanaru really was the pre OoT war, than having most of the Shekieh being banished to the Sacred re- I mean TWILITE REALM (more on that later) would fit into the timeline quite cozy as it would explain the absence of the shekieh from OoT and TP.

But now I'm tired and I've been on the computer for a while so I'm going to get off. I have only started to dish out the info so far and haven’t even gotten into the Garo or Majorahs mask yet so I think I'll write the next section of my theory of who the Dark Tribe is another time.

See you guys :wave:

 

[ChargewithSword]

Personally I don't think there is just one "dark tribe".

This is because there are three main "candidates" for the dark tribe that I can think of.

1: The Shekieh
- They are usually looked as being involved with the shadow and darkness.
2: The Twili
-known to be the conjurers of the fused shadow, these folks are VERY likley to be at least involved
3: Though not looked at much, the Garo Tribe could have easily been the Tribe described by the happy mask salesman in this quote

"The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask. It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals... The ancient ones...sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse. But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished..."

But has it really vanished? The Garo seem like a very likely candidate for this ancient tribe as there seems to be limitless amounts of paintings and memorials that have the Majorahs Mask on it and around the stone tower where the Garo reside.

When Lanaru begins telling the story of how the Fused Shadow was created, it mentions that there was a war and then a failed attempt to snatch the Triforce using the Fused Shadow. It was said that the Dark Interlopers where those who were attempting to steal the triforce by getting through into the Sacred realm. When the light spirits intervened they "sealed away the great magic those individuals had mastered" aka the fused shadow.
We learn later in the game the dark interlopers where cursed to the twilight realm and became the Twilite. HOWEVER a key word that lies in the story told by Lanaru is in this quote.

"Among those living in the light , interlopers who excelled at magic appeared.

This is how Lanaru introduces the Dark Interlopers.
The key part here is that these creatures lived in the light, and where not previously in the Twilight realm. This means they where likely already a race or group in Hyrule. Plus if you look, the Dark interlopers being based on shadow link, have red eyes. So does Midna's true form and Veran who is sometimes considered to be a member of the Dark Tribe. ALSO you can see a eye that looks suspiciously like the Shekieh symbol on both Veran’s and Agahnim’s clothes, along with another almost-Shekieh-design in the Zant's thrown room in the Twilight realm.

You can probably see where I'm going with this, The Dark Tribe seems to be very involved with darkness, Shekieh symbols, and red eyes. Who does this make you think of?

Yes, the Shekieh are DEFINITLY involved.

And, if TP takes place about a hundred years after OoT, and the war mentioned by Lanaru really was the pre OoT war, than having most of the Shekieh being banished to the Sacred re- I mean TWILITE REALM (more on that later) would fit into the timeline quite cozy as it would explain the absence of the shekieh from OoT and TP.

But now I'm tired and I've been on the computer for a while so I'm going to get off. I have only started to dish out the info so far and haven’t even gotten into the Garo or Majorahs mask yet so I think I'll write the next section of my theory of who the Dark Tribe is another time.

See you guys :wave:

Excellent deduction.

However why would the Sheikah ever bring harm upon the Goddesses? If they are loyal to the royal family then they must be loyal to the deities. And from what we've seen, the Sheikah are generally a kind people who a very wise. I suggest you check on that theory with the Sheikah we have, you may find something. Also the eye must have a tear or else it might just be a simple symbol. One thing that does aid this theory might be Agahnim, seeing as he has the eye on his garb, but he does not have the tear and neither does Veran. But they do seem to have some part to play in this story.

The Garo are somewhat likely but they never seemed like the people who would ever use such dangerous power. However they are very likely since we don't know any other power (than Majora) that can wipe out a kingdom and leave it in ruin. However there was only one Garo present in the Stone Tower and he never told us why he was there. If I find anything on this I'll be sure to tell you.


Also that Happy Mask quote is what I had been trying so hard to remember: "The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask. It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals... The ancient ones...sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse. But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished..."

The ancient ones... that gets me thinking, on perhaps the ancient ones were in fact the light spirits from Hyrule. Now I know that Majora was found in Termina, but the Light spirits are devout to protecting the Godesses above even Hyrule they might have gone to disrupt the ancient tribe in their hexing.

What if that they had not just sealed the Fused Shadows, no what if they sealed many more weapons away. They only said "Sealed their great magic away" meaning they might not be speaking of a certain object. Majora and the Fused Shadows might be one of the many that the spirits had sealed away into darkness. Lanaryu never described the Fused Shadows directly when we went into that acid trip cutscene.


Maybe, the Garo and the Sheikah share something... there have been evidence of Sheikah in Termina because of the Gossip stone and the Mask of Truth.
Wait... what if the Garo and the Sheikah may have been in some sort of cahoots. Look at it, both of the Tribes had been all but wiped out. The Garo have been speculated to worshiping Majora and the Sheikah symbol is everywhere. Plus when the Happy Mask Salesman was attacked by Skull kid, he was in the Lost Woods which at the time was still Hylian territory. He could have gotten the Mask from somewhere else. You might be a genius for getting this in my head.

 

[skullkidsreveng]

A little speculation as to why the tear is missing from the soarces I talked about.

In the OoT manga the shekieh where said to originally only have the eye... but after they where betrayed they added the tear. The manga in not canon, but it does bring up a logicle solution. This would mean that only those who where betrayed would have the tear drop (aka the shekieh of hyrule) and the betrayers would simply have the original design.

 

[ChargewithSword]

A little speculation as to why the tear is missing from the soarces I talked about.

In the OoT manga the shekieh where said to originally only have the eye... but after they where betrayed they added the tear. The manga in not canon, but it does bring up a logicle solution. This would mean that only those who where betrayed would have the tear drop (aka the shekieh of hyrule) and the betrayers would simply have the original design.

Well, it is logical. But the problem is that it needs more evidence in the games because it seems more like something of fan fiction. However, the fact that some eye symbols without the tear exist makes this sketchy theory come into some light. I shall accept it with a grain of salt, but it is logical.

 

[blackmoon]

I personally place TP, FSA and ALttP in that order on the Child Timeline. I think the Dark World is the altered Twilight Realm, and all that other jazz. There is enough similarities between the Twilight and Dark Realms to assume them to be the same. (Groups of evil men trying to get their hands on the Triforce, being sealed away there? The Mirrors? I think there's enough evidence to support the idea that Ganon just turned the Twilight Realm to the Dark World.)

Aghanim is also said to be a wizard who appeared from nowhere. He plays a similar role to both Vaati in FSA and Zant in TP. Of course, he seems to come from the dark world... I think Aghanim is a Twili.

 

[ChargewithSword]

"Legends speak of a mirror in which a dark tribe was sealed away long ago. I understand it's supposed to be hidden now somewhere in the Forest Light." - Dampe the Grave Keeper

New clues on our favorite tribe. Since there have been sightings of two dark mirrors I'm guessing that this happened when the mirror of Twilight was destroyed (yes it was tiny pieces but who knows.) This seems to suggest that the Zunas have no relations to the Dark Tribe. (People seem to believe that the Zunas are the Dark Tribe.)
The goddesses and Ancient Ones (Most likely the light Spirits) had seemed to have trapped the Dark Tribe through the ancient mirror and into the Dark World (perhaps Twilight Realm if so) and the Gods are probably very precise at who they choose to banish. I am sure they would not have missed a single bit of the Dark Tribe. So why would the Zunas have any relation to the Dark Tribe then?