The Bosses from LoZ and AoL - Good or Bad???

[TheGermanLegend]

I was wondering. In LoZ Zelda has hidden the ToW, which she has broken in 8 pieces. To get one of these pieces you have to fight against a boss(Aquamentus, Dodongo, Gohma, Digdogger, Manhandla and Gleeok). If Zelda put hem there to protect the ToW, why do they attack Link??? If it was Gannon, why hasn't he stolen the ToW??? It was just one room away???

The same question for AoL. The King put the bosses of these game in the tamples to protect the stone statues needen to get the ToC. So why do they attack Link???

 

[Deniro]

The monsters were just set to protect the triforce pieces, so naturally, when Link tried to take them, they tried to stop him, in Aol, Link had to prove he was worthy of getting the triforce of courage

 

[TheGermanLegend]

The monsters were just set to protect the triforce pieces, so naturally, when Link tried to take them, they tried to stop him, in Aol, Link had to prove he was worthy of getting the triforce of courage

If that's the case when did Gohma changed to the "good" side???. And also why did the King revived Volvagia when it almoust killed the Goron species two times???

 

[Djinn]

It is hard to say they are good or evil. The bosses of LoZ were not completely stated as guarding the triforce pieces from Ganon so that he could not gain the complete triforce. Only that Princess Zelda hid the pieces deep in Hyrule. The many enemies found in the labyrinth were said to be minions of Ganon, but the bosses would have to be guardians of some type since they essentually stand guard over each piece. If they were more loyal servants to Ganon then they would not remain there. and if they were typical creatures commonly found in labyrinths then there would probably be more Gleeoks and Aquamentuses found within them. But the one single greater monster that all the other enemies found within the labyrinth cannot defeat or move pass obviously shows some type of guardianship role.

One day, an evil army attacked this peaceful little kingdom after he stole the Triforce of Power. This army was led by Ganon, the powerful Prince of Darkness who sought to plunge the World into fear and darkness under his rule. Fearing his wicked rule, Zelda, the princess of this kingdom, split up the Triforce of Wisdom into eight fragments and hid them throughout the realm to save the last remaining Triforce from the clutches of the evil Ganon.—Legend of Zelda Instruction Manual

The rest of the story states that Link was found purely on chance, he just so happened to be in the area to rescue Impa and was then set on his quest to rescue Zelda. By that point in time there was probably no way to call off the monsters from guarding the pieces and allow Link to take them since Zelda had been captured and Hyrule conquered. Link would just have to take them by force. There is also the possibility that the guardians of the triforce pieces was some type of test to see if any hero attempting to obtain the triforce would be good enough to attempt to defeat Ganon and rescue Zelda. This test scenario was seen again in Zelda 2 to obtain the triforce of courage, in ALTTP to get the three pendants of virtue to be worthy of drawing the Master Sword, and in WW at the tower of the gods to see if a hero is worthy of rescuing Hyrule. Defeating the eight monsters might be LoZ's version of the hero's test of worth.

In AoL the guardians of the crystals are definitely placed there by the old king of Hyrule. The story of the game states this.

"This was written on the Scroll. "You who'll control the Triforce of the future. I shall hand down to you the secrets of the Triforce. There are three kinds of Triforce - Power, Wisdom, and Courage. When these three are brought together, the Triforce will share its maximum power. Of the three, I have left Power and Wisdom in the kingdom. But the Triforce of Courage I have hidden for a reason. Not everybody can use the Triforce. It requires a strong character with no evil thoughts. But an inborn special quality is also necessary. Unfortunately, I have not found such a person during my lifetime." "Therefore, I have decided to cast a spell on all of Hyrule. A crest will appear on a young man with that character who has been brought up correctly, has gained many kinds of experiences and reached a certain age. But, what will happen if someone else uses the Triforce before then? If it is misused, it will produce many evils".
"The Triforce of Courage is hidden in the Great Palace in the Valley of Death on the largest island in Hyrule. However, to enter you must first fight the guardians and undo the 'binding force.' When you have defeated the guardians, which I made to prevent enemies from invading the six palaces in Hyrule, set a crystal in the forehead of the statue you find. When you have set crystals in all of the statues in the six palaces, the 'binding force' placed on the Valley of Death will be removed and you will be able to enter the great palace. There you must fight the last guardian. And you can obtain the Triforce only by defeating that guardian. There's nothing to fear. You are the one to get the Triforce. You are the beacon of hope for Hyrule."—Adventure of Link Instruction Manual

The previous King of Hyrule that ruled with the tree triforce pieces created the palaces and guardians to test the skills and worthiness of any hero to take the triforce of courage. Since this is someone who at tthe time commanded all three parts it makes sense that they might be capable of bending certain monsters to their will and causing them to act as guardians for each palace, or they were simply created for the task. Ganondorf with just the Triforce of Power was perfectly capable of creating or controlling the dungeon bosses of OoT and WW, a king with all three could do the same.

 

[DuckNoises]

If that's the case when did Gohma changed to the "good" side???. And also why did the King revived Volvagia when it almoust killed the Goron species two times???

Are we speaking about OoT, now?

It was not the King who revived Volvagia in OoT, (well, to be fair, he was a king) but rather Ganondorf. He woke Volvagia for several reasons, the first of which was likely to prevent the Sage of Fire from being awakened. The second reason was a way to kill two birds with one stone; as a tyrant king, Ganondorf woke Volvagia as a reactionary method to show that he would not be crossed by anyone in Hyrule, and anyone who did would be eradicated. Ganondorf was intent on genocide, of killing off all the Gorons to intimidate all of the other races and factions in Hyrule.

In OoT, Queen Gohma merely happens to be inside of the Great Deku Tree watching the Spiritual Stone. Gohma isn't necessarily good or evil, but Gohma lives inside of a benevolent entity. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

 

[Djinn]

I think he might have been talking about the temple guardian Barba in AoL, which is largely assumed to be Volvagia in another incarnation. Which if that is the case then I would believe it would fall under the same explanation as the other guardians. A Hylian King with the triforces of Power and Wisdom placed him there as the guardian to test anyone would try to recover the triforce of courage.

If not, then it may as well be a totally different creature, possibly unrelated to the Volvagia of OoT completely. And was then placed in the temple as a test as said before.

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

I think it's just as simple as they're monsters; they have no concept of good and evil, just a concept of a need to survive, to protect themselves, and to protect their domain. It's not unreasonable to say Zelda put them there to protect the Triforce pieces from those with ill will, but she can't just tell these creatures that Link is good. They're set there as a precaution against Ganon, and as a consequence Link has to defeat them himself to reach the Triforce pieces.

 

[TheGermanLegend]

Are we speaking about OoT, now?

It was not the King who revived Volvagia in OoT, (well, to be fair, he was a king) but rather Ganondorf. He woke Volvagia for several reasons, the first of which was likely to prevent the Sage of Fire from being awakened. The second reason was a way to kill two birds with one stone; as a tyrant king, Ganondorf woke Volvagia as a reactionary method to show that he would not be crossed by anyone in Hyrule, and anyone who did would be eradicated. Ganondorf was intent on genocide, of killing off all the Gorons to intimidate all of the other races and factions in Hyrule.

In OoT, Queen Gohma merely happens to be inside of the Great Deku Tree watching the Spiritual Stone. Gohma isn't necessarily good or evil, but Gohma lives inside of a benevolent entity. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

No, I'm still talking about the first two games. No matter where you place AoL on your timeline(exept maybe befor OoT) Volvagia will be dead but it appeard in AoL(as Djinn said it was named Barba in some Versions of the game, but this was corrected in later versions(that what I read i Zeldawiki, so sorry if I'm mistakening)).

For Gohma, she always seem like an intelligend being to me, because even deku-scrubs, which we know are inteligend, are under her controle. And if she's intelligend and she allways was a loyal minion to Ganon it seems unlikely to me Zelda could use her as a watchdog.

 

[Djinn]

No, I'm still talking about the first two games. No matter where you place AoL on your timeline(exept maybe befor OoT) Volvagia will be dead but it appeard in AoL(as Djinn said it was named Barba in some Versions of the game, but this was corrected in later versions(that what I read i Zeldawiki, so sorry if I'm mistakening)).

For Gohma, she always seem like an intelligend being to me, because even deku-scrubs, which we know are inteligend, are under her controle. And if she's intelligend and she allways was a loyal minion to Ganon it seems unlikely to me Zelda could use her as a watchdog.

Then the only real answer could be, LoZ and AoL were made long before Nintendo ever tried to flesh out these concepts and create stories behind the villains of the story. Ganon was nothing more than a blue pig man that managed to steal the triforce of power and kidnap Zelda. The bosses were never meant to be or even understood as anything more than larger and harder to kill monsters at the end of each dungeon. Vovolgia and Gohma were simply mindless animals that attacked all things smaller than themselves until Nintendo decided that it would make things more interesting to have Gohma speak in OoT. Volvagia still has no lines spoken in the series so he could still be a large animal. We have nothing else to go by with it's character.

But this is like all things LoZ, and overwhelming majority of the concepts in AoL, there was just the very basics of story present in them. They were cookie cutter fantasy games with the little green hero, the princess, and the large blue menace. The only story explanation I can think of is, the power of the triforce caused these larger monsters to be more loyal. Or any other magical source caused them to follow Hylian commands. I doubt Gohma is loyal to anything other than someone that is more powerful than her, possibly the same goes for Barba/Volvagia. Since Link was perfectly capable of learning all types of advanced magics from the villagers of Hyrule, the Kings or leaders might have commanded something more powerful to be capable of controlling these monsters.

 

[Seth]

Just back to OoT for a minute, the Deku Tree talked about being cursed. Link was to break the curse. Link killed Gohma. Link broke the curse but the Deku Tree said it was too late he was doomed anyways. So...Wouldn't Ghoma be evil since it's the curse Ganondorf placed there? Plus Gohma didn't give you the stone, the DT did after you were warped out of the dungeon.

As far as LoZ and AoL they were there as guardians. They attack anyone who tries to take whatever they are guarding and thus aren't really good or evil. in AoL I think they were referred to as a test or challenge Link must overcome to earn the TF.

 

[DuckNoises]

Just back to OoT for a minute, the Deku Tree talked about being cursed. Link was to break the curse. Link killed Gohma. Link broke the curse but the Deku Tree said it was too late he was doomed anyways. So...Wouldn't Gohma be evil since it's the curse Ganondorf placed there? Plus Gohma didn't give you the stone, the DT did after you were warped out of the dungeon.

You're right. I'm tired and I've been playing ALttP too much recently; I must have been thinking about the Medallions, with the bosses acting as tests and such (even though Gohma isn't in that game as a boss). Faulty neurons.
It's possible Gohma is evil, but Gohma could merely be hostile to anyone, as some have suggested.
However, on compiling these two quotations, Gohma (or her actions) could have been part of the curse.

That evil man who cast the death
curse upon me and sapped my
power...

Gohma
It's one of the parasitic monsters
inside the Deku Tree! Its eye is
vulnerable when it's red!

The notion of being "parasitic" could be physically "sapping" the energy out of the Great Deku Tree, so you may be correct there.


Provided Barba is Volvagia, Barba cannot appear "naturally" on the AT as he is defeated in the Adult portion of OoT. He was revived on the AT once (as he appears in OoT), so it's possible he could appear again if you place AoL on the AT. But, there remains the case of how Volvagia/Barba was revived; it couldn't be Ganon, as he was defeated himself in LoZ. Why would the King/Zelda have revived Volvagia, other than to protect the Triforce of Courage further? It's already protected in the Great Temple. This would imply that

On the CT, Volvagia is only slain once, by the Goron Hero of lore, assuming that happens pre-split.

A long time ago there was an
evil dragon named Volvagia living
in this mountain.
That dragon was very scary!
He ate Gorons!
Using a huge hammer, the hero of
the Gorons... BOOOM!
Destroyed it just like that. This is
a myth from long ago, but it's
true!
I know, because my dad is a
descendant of the hero!

What other clues aside from appearance are there to indicate that Volvagia is Barba? What implications does this bring about? Much like other Temple Guardians in AoL, Barba is likely amoral, defending the Temple as it was intended to do.