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Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

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I've admittedly been inactive and am sorry for that. But I don't really have a defense to make other than I've been busy, and I doubt that could sway yall's votes. I'd be totally willing to try to address any other reasons for my lynch, but, again, doubt I will.


Is there a reason why Zelda13 is not among us? She has been the most inactive of us all and I'm curious as to why she is not included?
Because as far as I know she's actually given a reason for her inactivity.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Location
Louisiana, USA
Is there a reason why Zelda13 is not among us? She has been the most inactive of us all and I'm curious as to why she is not included?

I mean, I already addressed why when I posted my analysis on players along with my subsequent replies to kokirion; basically she seems more like Hero to me.

But the fact that you've had little to nothing to do with the game, and then you suddenly pop up at the end when you're in line to be lynched, makes me think that you've been trying to stay under the radar for a reason.
 

Viral Maze

Verb the adjective noun
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Canada
You haven't been doing too much scum hunting today apart from the slight exchange you had with Hero. You seem to just be asking people what they think of other players; in my experience, you usually end up voting for the players you ask other people about. Again, these were just "vibes" I was getting from you after you asked Toxic_Snowman the same thing. If I'm incorrect, I'd love to hear your actual thoughts about our remaining players, myself included, before the day ends.

No, you're right. I've been pretty busy this whole Day 3 with work, and have been meaning to post more and read more, but these softclaims are throwing my reads off, and I haven't been able to reconcile my thoughts and suspicions.
I hate posting a list of thoughts on each player. We've played a few games together, wayyyy back, and I'm pretty sure I'm never done anything like that. I find its too easy for Mafia or SKs to use. Easy to pick out one or two names on town players' town lists and keep the players on everyone's 'scum lists' in game. I prefer to question one player at a time, to build connections. Easier to question Player A about Player B, and after 3 IRL days, question Player A about Player C and get a slip up if they are scum, than it is to question Player A at the same time about players they actually do have a connection with. I hope that made sense.
I will reveal a bit though, as I still am a fan of transparency (more so now than years back when I'd vote for no reason at all except to watch a player sweat).

You're neutral in my books, Vergo, with a slight town lean. You're softclaim is one of the reasons. We all know your role is in game, and to fake it wouldn't make a lick of sense. I don't like the attention drawn to it, I thought it was wonderfully subtle, as it gives scum more information, but its not a huge deal. Another is this post:

I'm down for lynching him because I think no-lynches are a terrible waste of time, if only just to get an annoying element of the game out the way that could yet again be detrimental to the town in the future if he's so quick to lie and cover himself up without thinking.

It mirror's my own thoughts and is very unapologetic. I feel scum would tend to appeal to emotion and say "I hope this is right" or vote for a wagon that will never make it to a lynch, but this seemed like you made up your mind about the whole thing, and did a policy lynch. It's one thing to lynch a townie as scum and pretend, and its one thing to lynch a townie as town and know you're probably wrong but its for the best because even if you get investigated or vigged, you helped out.
The fact that you were the last vote on the wagon however made me doubt a bit, thus your neutralness on my list, but like I said you have a solid town lean currently.

As for scum leans, I agree with Koki that someone who played with Sadia would try to off her. It was the same in Revival when the Mafia offed LG Night 1.
As far as I can tell, its just Kokirion, you, Tristan and Alit who have played with her? Meaning Tristan or Alit is a mafioso.

I'm neutral on Tristan, and have a slight scumlean on Alit.

I've admittedly been inactive and am sorry for that. But I don't really have a defense to make other than I've been busy, and I doubt that could sway yall's votes. I'd be totally willing to try to address any other reasons for my lynch, but, again, doubt I will.

Who are you suspicious of?
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
VOTE COUNT
Doc (6):
Soul, Kokirion, A Link in Time, HeroOfTime, Night Owl, Malon
Not Voting (10): Tristan, Viral Maze, Mido, Frozen Chosen, Crus@der77x , Night Owl, Ver-go-a-go-go, Toxic_Snowman, Zelda15, Doc, Jamie

Extension (3): Soul, HeroOfTime, Doc

As the day drew to a close, things became more heated. Accusations were thrown around, arguments were made, and lunched were nommed, until a shot rang out. The arguing stopped as they looked to see what had happened, and they saw Doc, lying dead on the ground, a bullet in his heart. He looked at the crowd around him and used his dying breaths to laugh, "Fools," he tells them, "You may have killed me, but my robots won't be as easily found," he laughs again as his life-extending machine sparks, and then dies, and so does he.
Doc was Gray Mann, the Godfather
"Wait," someone said, "Didn't Hale promise us that these things run on money?"
Someone ran over and shuffled around, "Got his wallet."
And there was much rejoicing


NIGHT 3 BEGINS
Night 3 ends at 8pm PST on Friday, May 6, 2016.


The Living- 15
  • Kokirion
  • Soul
  • A Link in Time
  • Tristan
  • Viral Maze
  • Mido
  • Frozen Chosen
  • Spiritual Mask Salesman Crus@der77x
  • Night Owl
  • Malon
  • Ver-go-a-go-go
  • Toxic_Snowman
  • Zelda15
  • HeroOfTime
  • Dan Jamie

THE DEAD - 5

  • Storm - RED Heavy, the Mann Co. Even-Night Roleblocker (Lynched Day 1)
  • Sadia - RED Demoman, a Vanilla Townie (Killed Night 1)
  • Johnny Sooshi - BLU Engineer, a Vanilla Townie (Lynched Day 2)
  • Pendio - BLU Heavy, the Mann Co. Odd-Night Roleblocker (Killed Night 2)
  • Doc - Gray Mann, the Godfather (Lynched Day 3)
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
Deep in the night
Red lights shine in the darkness as a robot steps out of a building. Looking down, it's systems target a sleeping figure. kneeling down, it stabs its hand through its target's chest, tearing out its heart. Standing up, job complete, it turns around and walks away.
Immediately after, a figure runs out of the shadows, "Mein frund! I am here!" he kneels in front of the body, "Ah! Easy fix!" he picks up the body and takes it away.

Meanwhile, a sniper sees his target. The lsat time he'd been on watch, he'd shot a Vanilla Townie. He wasn't going to make that mistake again.
Making sure it's his target, he runs a mile away and turns around, firing his gun.
The shot rang true, andCrus@der77x collapsed to the ground.
The Australian left, proud of himself.
The next morning, he learned that Crus@der77x was the Blue Spy, the Mann Co. Odd-Night Cop
Oops

The Living- 14
  • Kokirion
  • Soul
  • A Link in Time
  • Tristan
  • Viral Maze
  • Mido
  • Frozen Chosen
  • Night Owl
  • Malon
  • Ver-go-a-go-go
  • Toxic_Snowman
  • Zelda15
  • HeroOfTime
  • Dan Jamie

THE DEAD - 6

  • Storm - RED Heavy, the Mann Co. Even-Night Roleblocker (Lynched Day 1)
  • Sadia - RED Demoman, a Vanilla Townie (Killed Night 1)
  • Johnny Sooshi - BLU Engineer, a Vanilla Townie (Lynched Day 2)
  • Pendio - BLU Heavy, the Mann Co. Odd-Night Roleblocker (Killed Night 2)
  • Doc - Gray Mann, the Godfather (Lynched Day 3)
  • Crus@der77x - Blue Spy, the Mann Co. Odd-Night Cop (Killed Night 3)
DAY 4 HAS BEGUN
Day 4 ends at 11:59pm PST on Wednesday, May 11, 2016. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to reach majority
 
Last edited:

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
Actually I have time for one more.

Hmm... I just looked back and noticed that Hero wad the first to vote for an extension after Doc's wagon really started picking up speed. Doc himself was the only other person to vote for an extension.

The problem I have with that is the fact that Hero voted for Doc too before he proposed an extension. Perhaps he knew his godfather didn't stand a chance after people began removing their votes on me?

Mind you, I only made a quick glance at the previous page and didn't look at it thoroughly. I'm going to bed now but I'm gonna check back later to see if there are any other interesting connections between these two.

For now, EGMEOY HeroOfTime
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
Hmm... I just looked back and noticed that Hero wad the first to vote for an extension after Doc's wagon really started picking up speed. Doc himself was the only other person to vote for an extension.

The problem I have with that is the fact that Hero voted for Doc too before he proposed an extension. Perhaps he knew his godfather didn't stand a chance after people began removing their votes on me?

Mind you, I only made a quick glance at the previous page and didn't look at it thoroughly. I'm going to bed now but I'm gonna check back later to see if there are any other interesting connections between these two.

For now, EGMEOY HeroOfTime

EGMEOY= Eve's got my eyes on you?

Anyway, I don't believe this proves anything about HOT. If any, when people would start voting him, voting for an extension would at that point be stupid. If he was already voting for Doc it would've been best to stick with his strategy and blend in.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making

These are the official classes. Out of these here, it is confirmed that we have Scouts, Demomans, Heavies, Engineers, Medics and Spies. Only Snipers, Pyro's and Soldiers are missing. Probably, snipers are the vigs that we know that exist.

So far, we know for sure that Deku included 7 classes. 7x2=14. 14+4(arguably the amount of mafia)=18. This leaves 2.

I am quite confident that this means we have another pair of townies. It's not unthinkable that Deku added third party. But, I have a few reasons why I believe he did not include them:
1) There is no Serial Killer. We would probably have noticed that by now. This would imply that there are 2 non-SK third party roles in the game
2) The inclusion of 2 non-SK roles seems unlikely. e.g. 2 survivors. 1 SK and 1 survivor for example wouldn't be impossible, but 2 is a lot.
3) In Deku's original set-up, he asked for 23 players. Contrary to the current 20, this is an unequal amount. If you multiple the 9 classes by 2, and add the 4 mafiosi, this leaves 1 players left: probably the third party role.

The most likely explanation is that when Deku removed roles, he first removed the third player role and after that townies in pairs of 2 (he also requested people to join in pairs, in hindsight to full op both the blue and red versions of town roles. So this supports my theory).

Having established that there is no third party, we can say with a lot of confidence that there is probably 1 town class left that we have not yet discovered.

The big question here is, does that town class have a power or is it a powerless class like engineer and demoman?
So far, we know that there are 4 VT's in the game. 2 of them died (hence we know, because they both still have their living counterparts). 2 other people (soft)claimed VT: Frozen Chosen and Ver-Go-a-Go-Go. This is important because if we know for sure that there are only 4 VT's and no one else counter-claims, we can be sure that FC and Vergo are town. This greatly solidifies our already strong position, might prevent a mislynch (e.g. Vergo) and gives us more people whose analyses we can trust.

For this reason, I want to ask everyone. If you are a townie from the 8th class, a class that we have not yet encountered, please soft-claim and answer my question: Do you have a power or not? Do not specifically tell me what power and whether it works on odd/even days, just whether or not you have a power is enough. If this 8th class is non-VT, we know there are 4 VT's and 4 people that claim to be one. We can then ask the next question around, for everyone who truly is a VT to counter-claim (because then we know that either Vergo or FC is scum). If this doesn't happen, we know Vergo, FC and probably the one soft-claiming the 8th class* are town. If the 8th class player says he has no power, we know that there are not 4 but 6 VT's. In that case, we have 5 VT's and one spot left. So, no, we cannot yet firmly confirm Vergo and FC, but with having 5 out of 6 claims we can easily confirm that tomorrow, and we have the player who soft-claimed the 8th class as a confirmed townie.
So by following this strategy, we will at least confirm 1 townie today and possibly 3.

We are close to finishing the puzzle of this game. Just a bit more and it's game over for the mafia.


*We can also be quite confident that the one soft-claiming the 8th class is town. If he/she claims that they have or do not have power whereas this is a lie (50% chance) the real players from this class can counter-claim and we will have found scum. Even if they guess correctly, as soon as accidentily one of the real players from this class die, there will be only 1 spot left and 1 who claims it. If there is secretly a second who knows he/she has that role, he knows that the one making this original claim is lying and can then counter-claim. In other words, it is suicide for mafia to fake this soft-claim and so whomever makes the claim will have my trust.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Great idea @kokirion, I fully agree.

One interesting thing about the night scene is that there seems to have been a successful doctor save, leaving the mafia, once again, without a nightkill.

Losing one of our Cops is unfortunate however. :( Also sad for Crusader, who didn't really get to play much before being killed off.

I'll see if I can contribute more today, but I might not be able to be too active on the following two days.
 
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