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Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

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@Malon you haven't? I was sure you had, but if you haven't it makes sense that I couldn't find the post. That's even better then, because now the mafia don't know which night you can get active on either.
 

Johnny Sooshi

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Do you have any suspects @Johnny Sooshi?

I'm interested in Hero as well but I'd like to see his response as well. I'm also interested in the this back and forth between Kokirion and Pendio. Both of them are very polarizing in mafia games and I know both are very good. Whether one or the other is scum is unclear right now, but that's why I'm interested in their back and forth.
 
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I'm interested in Hero as well but I'd like to see his response as well. I'm also interested in the this back and forth between Kokirion and Pendio. Both of them are very polarizing in mafia games and I know both are very good. Whether one or the other is scum is unclear right now, but that's why I'm interested in their back and forth.
Are you suspecting HeroOfTime for the same reasons I am, or is there a different reason? I agree about Pendio and kokirion, but I'm willing to watch from the sidelines for the time being.
 

Johnny Sooshi

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Are you suspecting HeroOfTime for the same reasons I am, or is there a different reason? I agree about Pendio and kokirion, but I'm willing to watch from the sidelines for the time being.

For me it was lack of posts on Hero's part but your statement prompted me to look at his posts and your post about his contradiction and that actually does make him seem more suspect.

Of course by the lack of posts standard I could just as easily be deemed suspicious, as could others, so maybe not the best basis for now.
 
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For me it was lack of posts on Hero's part but your statement prompted me to look at his posts and your post about his contradiction and that actually does make him seem more suspect.

Of course by the lack of posts standard I could just as easily be deemed suspicious, as could others, so maybe not the best basis for now.

Fair point, but there are quite a number of people who haven't said anything at all so far to my knowledge, namely:
@Spiritual Mask Salesman
@Zelda15
@Sadia

Unless we're talking about a policy lynch, an option we should only use as a last resort, I don't think lynching someone for being inactive is a good move at this point in the game.
 

Mido

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Whoa....six pages!? Well, as far as I can see, it seems my earlier theory on Malon has been rendered obsolete. I'm running some errands at the moment, so I'll post something of more substance later today.
 

Viral Maze

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I quoted the first 2 parts because those are pretty much in line with my own thoughts.

I have to answer your question with a careful no.
Anyone can do such actions, it is not persé more likely that he is town. However, if he would be together with me on a mafia team, I would've tried to call him back. That would not have prevented everything, but maybe could have taken off some rough edges. If he'd be mafia I would expect his mafia team to, at the very list, have tried to keep him in check. The list of rash actions he took is already so long that it just seems rather implausible for me that he's part of a mafia team.
Furthermore, I see Storm as a chaotic player. That's really not special though, what people often mistakenly see as the difference between "experienced" and "unexperienced" players is mostly just a difference about the confidence players have in their own capabilities. Storm takes rash actions, he feels very quickly corncered (a tad paranoia). He doesn't feel like he can get a hold of the game, and so tries to obtain this security by acting. Just look at his post count, he's technically responsible for having written a couple of pages.
If he would be on a mafia team I would think that he could find a part of that security in his team. He can confidentially share his thoughts there and ask them what to do. That would not change his playstyle completely, but he might've exchanged a part of his posts and rash actions here for a wall of posts in his QT.

I certainly do not rule out he's not mafia, but my analyses just tell me he's more likely to be town than scum.
But his new claim did somewhat change his position. I no longer think he has a powerful role, I think power-wise he's not that significant. Which also means that his potential death would be less problematic would he turn town. And there's still that chance that he is in fact scum. Having thought it through again, I'm less opposing a storm lynch right now. Regardless, though, I still think he's probably town and so would prefer not to lynch him. Because it is probably pointless.

Interesting. I feel like your opinion mostly mirrors my own. I don't mind lynching Storm due to his chaotic nature as it can be anti-town and counter productive but his action alone don't scream scum.

I mean we are on the assumption that this is a Role Madness game based on what's been stated by people already. That's why I'm assuming a town JOAT.

There has to be. I'd say its over a 50% chance, but I'm not too familiar with the source material. If there is, we would have duplicates. I like Koki's coin toss rule. If the JOATs have a doctor protect, flip a coin to protect Malon. It'll add another layer of probability making it very tough for scum to get to get to Malon, even with a Strongman if Malon scores two protections in one night.

I'm interested in Hero as well but I'd like to see his response as well. I'm also interested in the this back and forth between Kokirion and Pendio.

What's particularily interesting about the Koki/Pen back and forth?
 

Johnny Sooshi

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Fair point, but there are quite a number of people who haven't said anything at all so far to my knowledge, namely:
@Spiritual Mask Salesman
@Zelda15
@Sadia

Unless we're talking about a policy lynch, an option we should only use as a last resort, I don't think lynching someone for being inactive is a good move at this point in the game.

Agreed. Lack of activity day one doesn't mean anything by itself.

There has to be. I'd say its over a 50% chance, but I'm not too familiar with the source material.

I'm not either but I think there's a good chance either the Scout or Soldier characters are JOAT since they fit the bill. But this is also Deku's interpretation and I'm not 100% familiar with TF2

What's particularily interesting about the Koki/Pen back and forth?

For me it's the fact that koki started with calling Pendio out and the fact that they've both been bring interesting information to the table. From a purely probability standpoint, I believe at least one veteran is scum and either one could theoretically fit the bill. More or less I'm just watching to see how the discussion between the two plays out.
 

HeroOfTime

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@Soul Which question did you want me to answer? I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the activity, and I didn't see you ask me anything.

@Johnny Sooshi My apologies, I've got a really hectic schedule and don't get to post often. Though I don't see how lack of posts has anything to do with scumminess.
 
As far as I understand, kokirion's plan to protect Malon is almost exactly the same as his original plan for the two doctors to protect themselves, right? The doctors would use random.org to decide whether they should protect themselves or another player. Except now the other doctor would randomly decide between protecting Malon or another townie, since it appears Storm isn't a doctor after all. I think this plan is a bit safer now that the mafia doesn't know who to target with a role like a roleblocker or strongman.

As for Pendio, I'm a bit conflicted about the suspicions about him. The initial complaint was that he was playing it safe and not saying much in his posts. Now he is posting a lot and saying his thoughts about peoples' plans, but he is being called too emotional and not considering the logic of kokirion's proposals. I see what koki is saying by not wanting to keep experienced players alive just because to avoid a whitewash. That said, I don't think we should do a complete 180 and off experienced players on day one either.
 
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@Soul Which question did you want me to answer? I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the activity, and I didn't see you ask me anything.

I went ahead and quoted the relevant posts for you again. If you want to keep up with who asked you questions, you'll get an alert (on the top right corner of the forums) whenever someone quotes your post or mentions your name. Anyway, this is what I want you to reply to:

I thought it was odd that he made a claim like that without backing it up.

As many have explained, it is one of the worst things you can do to announce your role on the first day, especially when fakeclaiming. His explosive response also sounded guilty imo. This is the first day, one guess is as good as the other, and as there was something against Storm, I decided to cast my vote towards him. I did think it odd that you questioned my vote while having the same one yourself, but, no, I wasn't just giving a random vote.

These two statements contradict each other. You're saying in the second quote that claiming on Day One is one of the worst things you can do, but the only logical way for Malon to back up his claims WAS to announce his role on Day One. He couldn't have been a cop that investigated Storm because it was Day One. The only possible explanation of how he could have known Storm was fakeclaiming was that he was the Red Medic himself. If you agree that him claiming was a mistake, why did you pressure him to do just that?
 

HeroOfTime

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Okay. When I said claiming was a bad idea, I meant it at Storm. This was before Malon declared his role. I wondered why he called Storm a liar without stating why he believed so. I didn't ask him to reveal his role though. I didn't think that he really had evidence, I assumed he was just trying to make Storm look bad. Since everyone agreed that roleclaiming was a bad idea, it seemed unlikely that he would give his out. It wasn't until page 6 that he roleclaimed. And this was after being pressured by Tristian, who questioned after Malon said he didn't want to give any evidence. Tristian was right though, why make a claim against Storm without evidence?
 

HeroOfTime

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Also, inactivity really doesn't mean anything definite. I would personally be think it wiser to be more active, as joining in conversation and keeping up with votes would seem less scummy, but idk. This is still my first ZD mafia. Also, I put links to the posts I referenced above, where it says "before Malon declared his role" and where it says "It wasn't until page 6 that he roleclaimed."
 
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