Super Smash Mafia - Originals vs Clones (Game Thread)

[DekuNut]

I don't think that damage analysis will be very helpful, SMS. I tried it yesterday knowing my character, role, and tier, and I came up with nothing really.
Anyways, I need to go back and check FroChos posts later. See who seemed to bear him ill will.

 

[DekuNut]

Also, question: does anyone have a character that was also in the original game? I know mine wasn't.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Things were very crazy over the night. Ver-go-a-go-go was healed by a lovely friend, leaving him at full health! But then someone else felt they weren't as good friends with Vergo, and he ended up damaged at the end of the night

If we do the math, it's clear that if our "doctor", or some other healing role to that effect, hadn't intervened on my behalf, I'd be incredibly close to death (90%) as this attack did 75%. Apparently I was completely healed, which logically means I was at 0% before the night attack. This leads me to believe that it was indeed the mafia, mainly because the damage they dealt in a single blow was enough to push even those at 0% very close to death, and if they do have damage variation, it wouldn't surprise me if their damage potential was even higher (perhaps it may even cap at 100%).

It could of course be the Vigilante or Serial Killer. I'd put my money on the Serial Killer though, as I don't think based on day one actions alone that I was a good Vigilante target (go figure, lol). Maybe I wasn't active enough? Sorry, I was busy building a house. It almost fell on someone though, and it looked like it would have really hurt them if it did. But if I was pissed off enough at someone, I could probably do just as much damage though.

As the day loomed, it also became clear that another friend of everyone's took some damage--but not as much as our friend Vergo. Frozen Chosen woke up with a few bumps and bruises!

This is the one that makes me think I was the mafia target instead of the Vig or SK target. It makes more sense to me that the damage Frozen Chosen got, with 30% as opposed to 75%, indicates that their attacker wasn't mafia and was some other source. It doesn't make sense for the mafia to do so relatively little damage, as their entire strategy is based on their nightly kill. We also get no indication that this damage was lessened or healed in any way, like we did with my attacker above.

I think daytime attacks are going to be lower in general compared to any night skills.
I don't think we can go off of attack strength to determine loyalties.

Hmm, you really think so? I agree that day time attacks will naturally deal less damage, but that seems like a given with the context of what mafia is (it takes many people to kill during the day, and only one to kill at night). I still believe that damage totals could, and in my opinion should, point towards the natural strength of the character relative to the rest of the Smash roster. This was a theory that DekuNut seemed to brush off fairly quickly, but I think it holds merit. The only way we'll find out is with some subtle claiming and more attacks.

 

[David]

I'm pretty sure the damage that each character does during the day is based on one of their Smash attacks (forward Smash, or most likely in my case, down smash). Night moves may either be small combo attacks, or even possibly a Final Smash that only deals damage and doesn't necessarily kill. We have to assume that Rep set up the game following Smash conventions.

I was also doing some thinking about the Mafia attacks at night. I think they can damage one person as a group, but it might also be possible that they can go after several different targets. If Frozen was hit by 30% damage, then it makes sense that Vergo was hit by 3 different Mafia members that each hit with an average of 25% damage, which is slightly lower than the attack on Frozen. This comes from the fact that attack damage ranges between two pre-determined values, so an average of 25% is not unthinkable. Now, Frozen may have been hit by an SK or Vig, but it is also plausible that he was hit by a fourth mafia member. This is but pure speculation based on numbers.

There are 14 of us, so 4 "clones" is a reasonable number for attacks. Given the Smash Roster, 4 seems like a good fit.

 

[Fig]

After reading the posts that people have stated this during the morning, I think it is clearly that Verg was a mafia target. 75% is a lot of damage for one person to have so I think it makes sense that he was probably selected as the mafia. Also judging by the wording from Rep's post, it seems that mafia actions alongside 3rd party will have the late priority (i.e. Town actions first followed than Mafia/3rd party). This is proven since Verg was healed of his prior damage before getting struck by the mafia.

There are 14 of us, so 4 "clones" is a reasonable number for attacks. Given the Smash Roster, 4 seems like a good fit.

I believe it has been confirmed that Smash 4 is the basis for this game, so with that logic, there should be 3 mafia and at least 10 Town with 1 3rd Party. The reason why I say 3 mafia is because there are only three clones in Smash 4 being Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina. Funny enough, these three characters are the most disliked by the Smash 4 community simply because they are clones and "stole" the character roster post of another character that people think should have been on disc like K.Rool or Ridley.

 

[David]

@Fig I understand that Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit are clones for Smash 4, but couldn't we also consider characters that have stuck around since previous installments that were originally clones? Such as Ganondorf, Toon Link, etc? Repentance did say during the sign-ups that this game's set up was flexible for almost any amount of people. However, 4 mafia for 14 people is approaching what I would consider the limit of mafia players per townie... Anyway.

 

[DekuNut]

I'm pretty sure the damage that each character does during the day is based on one of their Smash attacks (forward Smash, or most likely in my case, down smash). Night moves may either be small combo attacks, or even possibly a Final Smash that only deals damage and doesn't necessarily kill. We have to assume that Rep set up the game following Smash conventions.

I was also doing some thinking about the Mafia attacks at night. I think they can damage one person as a group, but it might also be possible that they can go after several different targets. If Frozen was hit by 30% damage, then it makes sense that Vergo was hit by 3 different Mafia members that each hit with an average of 25% damage, which is slightly lower than the attack on Frozen. This comes from the fact that attack damage ranges between two pre-determined values, so an average of 25% is not unthinkable. Now, Frozen may have been hit by an SK or Vig, but it is also plausible that he was hit by a fourth mafia member. This is but pure speculation based on numbers.

There are 14 of us, so 4 "clones" is a reasonable number for attacks. Given the Smash Roster, 4 seems like a good fit.

I doubt the mafia have multiple attacks David. It's still a nightpower... a factional thing.

 

[David]

I doubt the mafia have multiple attacks David. It's still a nightpower... a factional thing.

I think you misunderstand my logic. I'm merely stating that their attack is a combined attack of their characters. Until we know that they ALWAYS deal 75% damage even if one of them dies, we can assume that they deal damage through individual attacks. I don't know the real process, but my thinking leads me to this.

 

[Fig]

@Fig I understand that Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit are clones for Smash 4, but couldn't we also consider characters that have stuck around since previous installments that were originally clones? Such as Ganondorf, Toon Link, etc? Repentance did say during the sign-ups that this game's set up was flexible for almost any amount of people. However, 4 mafia for 14 people is approaching what I would consider the limit of mafia players per townie... Anyway.

The thing is that usually 20 player mafia games have 4 mafia players, which is 20% of the participants. 3 out 14 players is about 21% while 4 out of 14% is a whopping 28%. That's more than a quarter of the starting players. I personally think that is a bit much for the town. As for characters, Toon Link was never a clone, but a semi-clone. He has several similar moves to Link but ultimately you can't play him the same way you play Link. Ganon was once a clone but has evolved to be a semi-clone. I personally think we are going to have the 3 clones go against "parent" characters such as Mario, Pit, Marth, etc.

 

[David]

The thing is that usually 20 player mafia games have 4 mafia players, which is 20% of the participants. 3 out 14 players is about 21% while 4 out of 14% is a whopping 28%. That's more than a quarter of the starting players. I personally think that is a bit much for the town. As for characters, Toon Link was never a clone, but a semi-clone. He has several similar moves to Link but ultimately you can't play him the same way you play Link. Ganon was once a clone but has evolved to be a semi-clone. I personally think we are going to have the 3 clones go against "parent" characters such as Mario, Pit, Marth, etc.

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up for me. In some Mafia games, however, a moderator may feel inclined to push that limit, though. You never really know until endgame.

 

[DekuNut]

I think you misunderstand my logic. I'm merely stating that their attack is a combined attack of their characters. Until we know that they ALWAYS deal 75% damage even if one of them dies, we can assume that they deal damage through individual attacks. I don't know the real process, but my thinking leads me to this.

All right, cool. That makes more sense

 

[Moonstone]

I'm pretty sure the damage that each character does during the day is based on one of their Smash attacks (forward Smash, or most likely in my case, down smash). Night moves may either be small combo attacks, or even possibly a Final Smash that only deals damage and doesn't necessarily kill. We have to assume that Rep set up the game following Smash conventions.

I was also doing some thinking about the Mafia attacks at night. I think they can damage one person as a group, but it might also be possible that they can go after several different targets. If Frozen was hit by 30% damage, then it makes sense that Vergo was hit by 3 different Mafia members that each hit with an average of 25% damage, which is slightly lower than the attack on Frozen. This comes from the fact that attack damage ranges between two pre-determined values, so an average of 25% is not unthinkable. Now, Frozen may have been hit by an SK or Vig, but it is also plausible that he was hit by a fourth mafia member. This is but pure speculation based on numbers.

There are 14 of us, so 4 "clones" is a reasonable number for attacks. Given the Smash Roster, 4 seems like a good fit.

I hadn't thought of this, but it's a neat concept. With the way this game is set up, that would be a very interesting use of the mafia roles. I guess we'll have to see like someone else said whether the damage at night remains unchanged after a mafia member being KOed, or whether the attacks spread out over night even more.

I think each individual mafia members attacking separate targets at night would be a little overpowered though. If there are 3 or 4 doing 20-30 damage each night, if they spread it out, they could have a few people killed each night.

I agree with Deku, I think that they either all get to choose one person to attack together and have a combined damage or they have a factional amount of damage regardless of number of attackers, something we can know for sure when a mafia member dies and whether their attack at night stays in the same range.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I was also doing some thinking about the Mafia attacks at night. I think they can damage one person as a group, but it might also be possible that they can go after several different targets. If Frozen was hit by 30% damage, then it makes sense that Vergo was hit by 3 different Mafia members that each hit with an average of 25% damage, which is slightly lower than the attack on Frozen. This comes from the fact that attack damage ranges between two pre-determined values, so an average of 25% is not unthinkable. Now, Frozen may have been hit by an SK or Vig, but it is also plausible that he was hit by a fourth mafia member. This is but pure speculation based on numbers.

It seems like this could be possible, but it's just strange that Frozen didn't have anything else indicated where the damage they took came from. It's pretty clear that I was attacked by someone, yet with Frozen it's almost as if it was just random damage that didn't come from anywhere. If the mafia could divide up their damage, you'd think that the night scene would have the same level of detail for all the people attacked by the mafia, which we didn't have.

Anyway, I think some of you guys that didn't throw a punch yesterday should start digging and get some damage going. The only thing we really have to go off at this point are damage totals, and I'm interested to see if anyone is similar or matches the damage DekuNut did yesterday.

 

[Moonstone]

I did a quick skim through on the first day trying to see who might have had it out for Frozen Chosen.

The only ones who really interacted with him were Mido right at the beginning, who random voted against him and said that posting pictures of Happy will not fool anyone, and SMS.
Frozen chose to attack SMS after SMS attacked Vergo. Of course, we can't rule out the possibility that the attack against Frozen was random.

I'm currently most suspicious of SMS. His reason for attacking Vergo and his comment today trying to immediately place blame on Dekunut just because Deku did the least amount of damage doesn't really sit well with me.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I did a quick skim through on the first day trying to see who might have had it out for Frozen Chosen.

The only ones who really interacted with him were Mido right at the beginning, who random voted against him and said that posting pictures of Happy will not fool anyone, and SMS.
Frozen chose to attack SMS after SMS attacked Vergo. Of course, we can't rule out the possibility that the attack against Frozen was random.

I'm currently most suspicious of SMS. His reason for attacking Vergo and his comment today trying to immediately place blame on Dekunut just because Deku did the least amount of damage doesn't really sit well with me.

Frankly I think attack ranges could give us an idea of who is Mafia, I'm not saying Deku is Mafia for sure, I just pointed out his attack range was low and it's possible he could be Mafia. As for Vergo I admit I screwed up by not re-reading the thread and concluded he hadn't posted, when in fact he did.

SMS was the only one who attacked Vergo during the day, for being "inactive".
Perhaps the mafia may be trying to frame him for the attack. (unless SMS is mafia)


If it was the mafia that attacked Vergo, I think we can assume that vergo is safe, or at the very least not mafia.
I don't think mafia would generally try to off a team member at night.

I think daytime attacks are going to be lower in general compared to any night skills.
I don't think we can go off of attack strength to determine loyalties.

I don't know if I'm trying to be framed, really what I don't get is that I had the most damage at the end of Day 1, I'm wondering why the Mafia didn't follow through trying to put significant damage onto me in the night? I mean if you think about it the framing thing could have worked on Vergo if I was attacked in the night, so why did they attack Vergo? The only thing I can think is either they know I'm the newest player in this game so they felt I could be manipulated in a frame situation, or for some reason they felt Vergo was a bigger target to attack than me last night... @Ver-go-a-go-go should know whether the Mafia would want to kill him... if not than why would they attack Vergo for really no reason?

Anyway back to the attack scenario, I think it's logical that during the day the Town is going to get higher attack ranges wereas at night the Mafia is going to be dominant with attacks.