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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS

Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Location
Louisiana, USA
But how is Shulk?
Only characters you can play as are Mario, Link, Pikachu, Megaman, and Villager, unfortunately. I did play with each and every one of them extensively with a group of friends just now though.

I didn't really notice too much of a gameplay change, to be honest. Link feels much better and not near as slow, and Pikachu's final smash is a good deal easier to aim this time around. Playing as Megaman was kind of tough at first, seems like the guy has a steep learning curve, but I got the hang of it eventually. Villager has awesomely quirky moves.

I don't know if this is for sure, but is it confirmed that the general release demo will only have 30 turn-ons? Apparently the code you get from being platinum doesn't have a limit, at least that's what my friend told me.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Location
Louisiana, USA
I guess I'm bigger on playing Smash, then, because I noticed differences just from watching. I can't wait to experience them first-hand.
I poured hundreds of hours into Brawl, so I am a huge fan as well. But that was many years ago. If I had the time to still regularly play a 5+ year old game, or even bothered to follow online footage as religiously as other people, I'd probably notice it more. But even then, it's nothing mind-blowing; Melee is still faster, and 4 errs more on the side of Brawl while still being a good medium between the two.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
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Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
Boy I tell you. This Smash Bros 3DS Demo is making me so happy. Even though one stage and five characters is a bit on the low side, I appreciate it. Thanks so much to Garo and Keith! And on top of that, HNNNG LET THE FULL VERSION RELEASE ALREADY!
 
Well, I can't quite contain my excitement for this game so I've been watching quite a few streams of the Japanese version. The final roster is impressive to say the least.

October 3rd is going to be one hell of a day-Smash 3DS releasing and the premiere of Korra Book 4. The next three weeks can't go by fast enough.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I poured hundreds of hours into Brawl, so I am a huge fan as well. But that was many years ago. If I had the time to still regularly play a 5+ year old game, or even bothered to follow online footage as religiously as other people, I'd probably notice it more. But even then, it's nothing mind-blowing; Melee is still faster, and 4 errs more on the side of Brawl while still being a good medium between the two.
I do play more, then, because I play Brawl- like nobody's business -- I'm aware that's a mod, but it's still playing something Smash-oriented. Since that's not vBrawl, though, I suppose I just have really good memory, since I haven't played that in quite some time, myself. (None of the previous said to boast, of course.)

Melee being faster also really has nothing to do with what I said, and the main reason Smash 4 leans more towards Brawl is because of many moveset animations being identical. Effects of moves have noticeable differences, and the hitstun is back to an appropriate level for comboing potential. Ultimately, I think it's the game Brawl should have been all along from a mechanical standpoint (minus the continued lack of l-cancelling). It's certainly less technical due to not having the absurd amount of exploits that Melee does, and while it's very clearly more casual-friendly, it doesn't feel like it outright panders to the casual audience. While Brawl may have been a more polished & refined overall package, it was watered-down in the metagame frontier, but from what I've observed (and now, to a degree, played), I thoroughly believe I can say that Smash 4 doesn't carry that over. Fast Mode should also bring it up to Melee-like speeds, so I'm sure that'll be used quite a bit at tourneys.

While I don't expect Smash 4 to have the same level of competitive finesse that Melee does (even though most of that is unintentional), I still expect it to be popular in the tournament scene, especially with the inevitability of a custom move-based metagame fast approaching. There'll likely be a separate tier for that, and I'm willing to bet it will be the one more frequently played. If not that, then it'll most likely be where only a couple custom moves can be equipped on a character in matches.
 
Joined
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Location
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I do play more, then, because I play Brawl- like nobody's business -- I'm aware that's a mod, but it's still playing something Smash-oriented. Since that's not vBrawl, though, I suppose I just have really good memory, since I haven't played that in quite some time, myself. (None of the previous said to boast, of course.)
I'm assuming you meant Project M or some other mod in reference to the Brawl mod, which is fine. My argument isn't that you don't play more Smash than me, because it's rather clear you have a great deal more free time than me due to whatever circumstance you personally happen to be living in. My argument is still based in 4 being heavily modeled after Brawl's style of play and presentation, and since I've spent countless hours playing these types of games in the past, it's just a little preface as to why I'm certainly not completely immune to noticing drastic differences from game to game, which is something I didn't experience with this demo. Just a heads up.

Melee being faster also really has nothing to do with what I said, and the main reason Smash 4 leans more towards Brawl is because of many moveset animations being identical. Effects of moves have noticeable differences, and the hitstun is back to an appropriate level for comboing potential. Ultimately, I think it's the game Brawl should have been all along from a mechanical standpoint (minus the continued lack of l-cancelling). It's certainly less technical due to not having the absurd amount of exploits that Melee does, and while it's very clearly more casual-friendly, it doesn't feel like it outright panders to the casual audience. While Brawl may have been a more polished & refined overall package, it was watered-down in the metagame frontier, but from what I've observed (and now, to a degree, played), I thoroughly believe I can say that Smash 4 doesn't carry that over. Fast Mode should also bring it up to Melee-like speeds, so I'm sure that'll be used quite a bit at tourneys.
Saying Melee is faster was in no way or shape an attempt of reinterpretation of what you said, and shouldn't be taken as such; it was an illustration as a part of my response to you, specifically the "higher speed" of Smash 4. It was used as a representation of why Smash 4's speed isn't something to write home about, as it 1.)Has been done faster before, and 2.)The variety of speed styles present throughout the various installments (namely Melee and Brawl) aren't drastically different enough to leave a lasting impression on someone to the point where they pick up this demo, and immediately think "Boy, this sure is a lot better speed wise and lends itself to more combos" per your observations on what you think I should have noticed. The point also remains that it's far more similar to Brawl than Melee, despite the improvements you've given. These are very nice additions, and I certainly welcome them, but the fact remains that the template of Brawl is still very much there and far more noticeable than Melee. We can see this in the movesets of all the characters, an absolute critical part of any fighting game, along with the lack of very clever exploits such as Wavedashing, L-canceling, and others that Melee boasted. In the event that the similarities are there, and it still doesn't reach the so-called "competitve" heights of Melee, there's no reason for someone such as myself to immediately conclude that the game is so different and significant from other installments, especially when you have the "worse" game in Brawl, and the "best" game in Melee. A healthy medium is reached and it's appreciated; I hardly notice vast gameplay differences that drastically alter the experiences I had with Brawl.

JuicieJ said:
While I don't expect Smash 4 to have the same level of competitive finesse that Melee does (even though most of that is unintentional), I still expect it to be popular in the tournament scene, especially with the inevitability of a custom move-based metagame fast approaching. There'll likely be a separate tier for that, and I'm willing to bet it will be the one more frequently played. If not that, then it'll most likely be where only a couple custom moves can be equipped on a character in matches.
I only welcome Melee being dethroned from the "most competitive" title, as Melee elitist annoy me to no end. I can also hardly wait to see what custom moves with do to alter the experience, which we unfortunately didn't get to utilize in the demo.
 
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Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
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Akkala
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Hylian Champion
Well, I can't quite contain my excitement for this game so I've been watching quite a few streams of the Japanese version. The final roster is impressive to say the least.

October 3rd is going to be one hell of a day-Smash 3DS releasing and the premiere of Korra Book 4. The next three weeks can't go by fast enough.
Korra Book 4 releases on October 3rd? Hah, just a couple days after my Bio exam. ****. My. Life. ;p

Anyway, I think we can all stand for a little bit of a tussle on Oct 3rd. I say we host Smash 4 lobbies on 3DS for a good week or so ;p
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I'm assuming you meant Project M or some other mod in reference to the Brawl mod, which is fine.
No, I meant exactly what I said -- Brawl- (Brawl Minus). It's a mod that makes every character absurdly broken, alongside drastically modifying the hitstun (being slightly higher than 64's, sitting at at x0.54), and somewhat modifying the physics to accommodate for this so that the game is still balanced. I like to refer to it as the Syndrome Effect: "When everyone's Super... no one will be." Only in this case, the word "broken" would replace the word "Super".

Saying Melee is faster was in no way or shape an attempt of reinterpretation of what you said, and shouldn't be taken as such; it was an illustration as a part of my response to you, specifically the "higher speed" of Smash 4. It was used as a representation of why Smash 4's speed isn't something to write home about, as it 1.)Has been done faster before, and 2.)The variety of speed styles present throughout the various installments (namely Melee and Brawl) aren't drastically different enough to leave a lasting impression on someone to the point where they pick up this demo, and immediately think "Boy, this sure is a lot better speed wise and lends itself to more combos" per your observations on what you think I should have noticed. The point also remains that it's far more similar to Brawl than Melee, despite the improvements you've given. These are very nice additions, and I certainly welcome them, but the fact remains that the template of Brawl is still very much there and far more noticeable than Melee. We can see this in the movesets of all the characters, an absolute critical part of any fighting game, along with the lack of very clever exploits such as Wavedashing, L-canceling, and others that Melee boasted. In the event that the similarities are there, and it still doesn't reach the so-called "competitve" heights of Melee, there's no reason for someone such as myself to immediately conclude that the game is so different and significant from other installments, especially when you have the "worse" game in Brawl, and the "best" game in Melee. A healthy medium is reached and it's appreciated; I hardly notice vast gameplay differences that drastically alter the experiences I had with Brawl.
I never tried to argue that the differences are drastic, just noticeable, and I'm confident that I can say the vast majority of non-casual fans can attest to this, as I'm seeing that mentality everywhere I go when Smash discussions are taking place. Again, I think I probably just have a better memory, or at least retain information about things I'm interested in better, which is something that wouldn't surprised me. People have remarked on my ability to recall things basically ever since I gained the ability to talk in complete sentences, and it's always come as a surprise to me, oddly enough, even though it's happened for who knows how long (probably over 19 years at this point). Off-topic, I'm aware, but that actually has nothing inherently to do with intelligence, as you can have a very high IQ, but still be terrible at remembering things. The reverse situation is also very possible, as well.

I bring this up because I'm not trying to say, or even imply, that I'm smarter than you.

I only welcome Melee being dethroned from the "most competitive" title, as Melee elitist annoy me to no end.
I really don't think it will happen, though, because the amount of exploits it has combined with what the exploits allow (as well as the high speed) is mind-bendingly complex. Tourney-goers often refer to it as "the perfect accident" for very good reason, as it just might be the most technical Fighter in existence, regardless of it not attempting to be such. While I can see Smash 4 having a very strong competitive scene all throughout its lifetime, unlike Brawl (which is basically dead in tournaments at this point, not even appearing at EVO), the end of Melee's road is currently nowhere in sight.

Also, to be fair, while Melee elitists are, indeed, extremely annoying, there are far more casual elitists that literally get offended at the idea of playing without items and desiring advanced mechanics so that competitive play can thrive. They're the Smash equivalent of casual Pokemon fans that act as if it's morally wrong to breed a competitive-grade team and say that EVs don't matter.

Come to think of it, Smash & Pokemon are the only two competitive series I can think of that even HAVE casual elitists, and both are Nintendo-licensed franchises. ...Huh. Go figure.
 

Libk

Spaceballs: The Mafia Player
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Location
Spaceball 1
Omg the combo game is real in this. like, I was pulling off some nuts combos getting one of my friends from 0-70% before he damaged me, and a lot of it was small combos. I had some pretty big combos against the CPU but, CPU is crap. I'm really happy with this game omg
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Location
Louisiana, USA
JuicieJ said:
Also, to be fair, while Melee elitists are, indeed, extremely annoying, there are far more casual elitists that literally get offended at the idea of playing without items and desiring advanced mechanics so that competitive play can thrive. They're the Smash equivalent of casual Pokemon fans that act as if it's morally wrong to breed a competitive-grade team and say that EVs don't matter.

Come to think of it, Smash & Pokemon are the only two competitive series I can think of that even HAVE casual elitists, and both are Nintendo-licensed franchises. ...Huh. Go figure.
It's worth noting that, just for myself of course, I don't find the root-cause of Melee elitist being annoying to be the lack of items or differing stages. As a competitive Pokemon player since Generation IV, I absolutely understand the need to limit material in order to maintain the most healthy meta-game possible (Which content should and shouldn't be regulated is completely up for debate, but the necessity for it in the first place without question exists). I myself think that competitive Smash can be very enjoyable with no items and on neutral stages that don't to an extreme extent cater to a specific fighter's abilities, although I do find far more enjoyment personally just by embracing it as a very hectic and frantic party-game with friends.

My real issue with Melee elitism is the notion that so many of these players seem to spread that Melee is, and always will be, the absolute best that Smash has to offer unless a functional Melee 2.0 is released. Once again speaking back to my competitive Pokemon experience, it would be like omitting the entirety of a generation just because we felt the ensuing meta-game that was created (with differing mechanics such as base power, status longevity, and just moves and Pokemon introduced in general) was of lesser quality than the one a previous generation provided. I understand that a fighting game is far different from turn-based strategy, and it very well may be Apples and Oranges, but it's just the absolute refusal of entertaining new possibilities that irks me the most about it.

I remember playing TONS of Melee back when it was new. In a lot of ways, my fondest memories of Smash were with Melee because my brothers and sisters were so much younger and actually didn't mind spending ungodly amounts of time playing video games with me. But seeing Brawl and Smash 4 automatically getting minus points just for not being Melee by some "fans" is my biggest problem.
 

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