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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker discussion (Spoilers)

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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I can't get myself excited for this movie. I disliked The Last Jedi too much, this Trilogy wasn't created to have an overall cohesive plot and that's this Trilogy's biggest flaw. I think this film will be better than The Last Jedi, but I don't see this movie redeeming the overall Trilogy.
 

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To be honest, the only thing I'm the most excited about is Palpy. I always thought he was a very good villain. Creepy as **** and capable of fooling everybody. We'll see what it's going to be.
Hopefully, if they are willing to ruin my childhood by even suggesting that he is alive, they would at least give him more than a half a minute of screen time, I'm very worried that he is going to be overshadowed.
 

Azure Sage

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*bump*

Just got home from seeing the movie, so I'm gonna talk about what I liked and didn't like. Overall, I enjoyed it. It was a good ride, and that's all I ask. I still had some issues with it, though.

I didn't like Palpatine coming back. He had his time. We didn't need him back. Having said that, I thought what they did with him was interesting. I always thought it was weird that he told Luke to strike him down and rule in his place. Like, why would Luke do that after striking him down, right? The idea that the Sith then pass into the killer and corrupt from within makes that make more sense to me. I thought that was interesting.

I still think Rey should have been a Skywalker by blood, but I liked that she overcame her real blood and made a home for herself in the Skywalker family; that was good. But also **** reylo. **** it. Disgusting. I gagged. Yuck. Die. Glad Kylo died. He had his shots at redemption in the past films multiple times and he turned them all down. Good on him for finally doing right by himself, but god I still do not like him.

Overall I thought the events of the film were good. I love Rey, Finn, and Poe as a trio so much. Their interactions and dynamics are so good and fun to watch. I love that they finally continued to acknowledge Finn being force sensitive. I appreciated the callbacks and connections to past films through dialogue, props, and sets. I felt like it had more consistency with the series than 8 did. The final battle was fantastic and exciting to watch.

I still think 7 is my favorite in the series, but 9 is maybe top 5 material. Maybe...
 

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*bump*

Just got home from seeing the movie, so I'm gonna talk about what I liked and didn't like. Overall, I enjoyed it. It was a good ride, and that's all I ask. I still had some issues with it, though.

I didn't like Palpatine coming back. He had his time. We didn't need him back. Having said that, I thought what they did with him was interesting. I always thought it was weird that he told Luke to strike him down and rule in his place. Like, why would Luke do that after striking him down, right? The idea that the Sith then pass into the killer and corrupt from within makes that make more sense to me. I thought that was interesting.

I still think Rey should have been a Skywalker by blood, but I liked that she overcame her real blood and made a home for herself in the Skywalker family; that was good. But also **** reylo. **** it. Disgusting. I gagged. Yuck. Die. Glad Kylo died. He had his shots at redemption in the past films multiple times and he turned them all down. Good on him for finally doing right by himself, but god I still do not like him.

Overall I thought the events of the film were good. I love Rey, Finn, and Poe as a trio so much. Their interactions and dynamics are so good and fun to watch. I love that they finally continued to acknowledge Finn being force sensitive. I appreciated the callbacks and connections to past films through dialogue, props, and sets. I felt like it had more consistency with the series than 8 did. The final battle was fantastic and exciting to watch.

I still think 7 is my favorite in the series, but 9 is maybe top 5 material. Maybe...
I liked the Reylo ship. I knew they liked each other.

However I do think it would have been better had he killed pappa palps, being the last of the Skywalker bloodline and all. I am ok with him giving the last of his life for Rey though.

I loved the way Palpy looked in this one. Zombie like and then like a mix between his Revenge of The Sith look and Valak the Nun from Conjuring 2. The moment his sith eyes came in was one of my favourites.
 
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I didn't like Palpatine coming back. He had his time. We didn't need him back. Having said that, I thought what they did with him was interesting. I always thought it was weird that he told Luke to strike him down and rule in his place. Like, why would Luke do that after striking him down, right? The idea that the Sith then pass into the killer and corrupt from within makes that make more sense to me. I thought that was interesting.
This is my main problem with the Star Wars franchise. Something happens in the film and the fans go away and make more sense of it than the filmmakers themselves because even casual fans give more of a damn about the story than the actual storytellers.

Palpatine's original attempts at seducing Luke were successful. He had no intention of allowing Luke to actually strike him down, he simply wanted Luke to get to that place mentally, to "let the hate flow". He knew Vader would save him (which was contrived in of itself as one of the big plot points of the "I am your father" reveal was that Vader wanted to overthrow the emperor with Luke). There was no ritual back then. There have been similar rituals since outside the main canon, but Return of the Jedi was a much simpler story of Sidious searching for an apprentice even stronger than Vader. Sidious even gives a maniacal laugh after Vader saves him to really hit home that this was his plan and he has now won. His goal was the inject hatred into Luke, who would then take that hatred out on his father and overthrow him as second in command. Turns out, that's exactly what happened. Luke was one final strike away from truly falling to the dark side and it was only seeing how similar to Vader he had become that stopped him in that final hurdle.

So here, in Rise of Skywalker, they were trying to draw obvious parallels. The problem is they did not understand why Palatine's seduction tactics were so strong in the first place. The whole "join me or your friends will die" play was only ever supposed to be another link in the chain of filling these supposedly incorruptible Jedi with hatred enough to abandon their morals, and therefore allow his influence in. Even yoda recognised this strategy which is why he made such a strong point of highlighting it to Anakin in Episode 2 or 3. The writers here seemed to think that attempting to save his friends was why Luke almost fell, so Rey's identical slip and catch moment of seduction plays out like that. Despite the film putting on this pretense of Rey battling against the darkness within her, she is steely eyed and well in control as the ritual begins. She hasn't been seduced, she's been coerced and is acting out of strategy rather than blind emotion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing because they did things differently, rather I'm criticizing because they were obviously trying to hit the same notes but never understood the melody in the first place. This entire trilogy is just a rehash of the original but it's demonstrated time and time again that they do not understand what worked for the originals anyway.

Glad Kylo died. He had his shots at redemption in the past films multiple times and he turned them all down. Good on him for finally doing right by himself, but god I still do not like him.
Funnily enough, Kylo was one of the strongest points of this trilogy for me. Prior to Rise of Skywalker his arc was the strongest in terms of fitting in with established lore. His battle was never one of choosing between right and wrong. He knew what was right, and knew that what he was doing was wrong. As much as people criticize it, The Last Jedi did a very good job of demonstrating that Kylo's actions were the result of an imbalance in the force. Luke had built up his temple in the name of the jedi and so the dark side of the force had to manifest in order to counteract it. Unfortunately for Ben, he became the target of that manifestation. Throughout the Last Jedi Ren's arc is entirely dependent on the balance of force around him. As Snoke enters his endgame, Kylo's resolve becomes weaker and he slips toward the light. Then when Rey is threatened with destruction, he too fights for the light in killing Snoke. However, in doing so, the dark side has lost a powerful ally and so fights harder through Kylo. Hence why he goes from killing Snoke to trying to seduce Rey into ruling the galaxy with him in the space of a few minutes.

Even Rise of Skywalker began to acknowledge this. As Rey loses control on the remains of the Death Star she performs the ultimate dark act in killing Kylo in cold blood. This is pretty much immediately followed up by Kylo finally turning good, as he has no light side equivalent in that moment.

But alas, along comes the curse of the script rewrites. I don't buy the narrative that Disney always intended to bring Palpatine back at all because his very existence makes all of this character development moot. Palpatine existed all that time so there was never any reason for the dark side to look for alternate means to manifest. Snoke's death meant nothing because he was nothing but a meat puppet. In trying to perform damage control against all the complaints of Last Jedi they simultaneously erased one of the greatest character developments of the series and reduced Kylo to a sobbing kid that flips flops between allegiances because he remembers his dad for a moment.

I did not like the ending one bit either. For a few brief minutes in the middle of Act 3 I fantasized about General Pryde actually being Darth Maul in disguise. When Rey resists Palpatine's advances, he instead summons Maul to perform the ritual, meaning Rey and Kylo have to fight Palpamaul in an actual battle. Instead, Rey consciously decides that a full power Palpatine will somehow put her friends in less danger, Kylo gets slapped down a hole and Rey mimics Mace Windu but with more drama and absolutely zero cool action. I'm not mad because they didn't use my ending, I'm mad because they had all the building blocks for a really solid ending and instead we got 15 minutes of staredown followed by 30 seconds of lightning tennis. What little lightsaber action was there in the finale existed between full power heroes and low powered henchmen.
 

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I liked the Reylo ship. I knew they liked each other.
I hate it. The only basis is Rey wanting to bring him back into the light. It has no substance. Finnrey has ten times the chemistry and buildup. They work well together. They enjoy being around each other. They help each other. They're friends. That's what makes a good ship. Reylo has none of that. I can't stand it.
 

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I hate it. The only basis is Rey wanting to bring him back into the light. It has no substance. Finnrey has ten times the chemistry and buildup. They work well together. They enjoy being around each other. They help each other. They're friends. That's what makes a good ship. Reylo has none of that. I can't stand it.
It should be Poe and Finn not Rey and Finn.

Girls often love a guy they can work on or think they can fix and Kylo certainly needed some work. That's why Rey fell for him.
 

Azure Sage

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It should be Poe and Finn not Rey and Finn.

Girls often love a guy they can work on or think they can fix and Kylo certainly needed some work. That's why Rey fell for him.
First... Ok yeah finnpoe is great. But we all know Disney wasn't gonna let that happen. They fear what's good.

Second, that trope is disgusting and needs to die. I hate it so much. It's not a woman's job to fix a man.
 

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First... Ok yeah finnpoe is great. But we all know Disney wasn't gonna let that happen. They fear what's good.

Second, that trope is disgusting and needs to die. I hate it so much. It's not a woman's job to fix a man.
They should have made it happen

And it's the way things are. It's very realistic and I'm sure many relate to it.
 

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First... Ok yeah finnpoe is great. But we all know Disney wasn't gonna let that happen. They fear what's good.

Second, that trope is disgusting and needs to die. I hate it so much. It's not a woman's job to fix a man.
Around the end of the film, when the resistance gets back from Exegol, you can actually spot two women making out.
 

Azure Sage

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Around the end of the film, when the resistance gets back from Exegol, you can actually spot two women making out.
Yeah, for less than a second. That’s whats called “hey look I added representation y’all can shut up now right?” bare minimum effort. If you’re looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants to feel represented, it’s like dropping cookie crumbs in front of a starving man and then acting like you’re a benevolent hero. They’re cowards who don’t wanna go all in.
 
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Yeah, for less than a second. That’s whats called “hey look I added representation y’all can shut up now right?” bare minimum effort. If you’re looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants to feel represented, it’s like dropping cookie crumbs in front of a starving man and then acting like you’re a benevolent hero. They’re cowards who don’t wanna go all in.
Or they could stop their pandering all together and focus their efforts on making a cohesive story and moviegoing experience.
 

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TLJ: "The force is all around us, and anyone can use it, even if you're not from a special bloodline"

TROS: "Lol never mind, the Force is Harry Potter magic, it only matters if your grandpappy was a wizard and you will be too"

That is the single worst part of the movie in my opinion, and that included the gratuitous and boring battle at the end.

Palpatine: Him still being physically present was stupid, and having him come back to like OFF-SCREEN in the TITLE CRAWL is offensively bad. He should have just been someone who set up the Final Order ships but not an actual physical tangible presence in the movie, it would give a lot more weight to him as a master planner.

Kylo: The more I watch Star Wars, the more I dislike the idea that "anyone can be redeemed uwu". When you butcher a village of innocents for funsies and kill a temple full of Jedi trainees, it really bothers me that people clamor for a redemption arc. At least Zuko had to work for his.

The Lightsaber: Hoo ****ing boy! So, first point: Anakins Saber should have literally never featured in TFA. It got dropped to the core of a Gas Giant planet, it's gone, the end (and honestly even if Rey can sense Force Echoes she should have sensed that it was used to butcher children). Ignoring that though, it was torn in half and blown up in TLJ. This should have been the RotJ moment where we get to see Rey go through the movie with the new saber, but instead TROS backtracks on Anakins saber getting destroyed because it's recognizable and will sell tickets from people who are only motivated by nostalgia. It's indicative of Disney's unwillingness to take actual risks and running back to the comfort of something familiar and "safe."
 

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TLJ: "The force is all around us, and anyone can use it, even if you're not from a special bloodline"

TROS: "Lol never mind, the Force is Harry Potter magic, it only matters if your grandpappy was a wizard and you will be too"

That is the single worst part of the movie in my opinion, and that included the gratuitous and boring battle at the end.

Palpatine: Him still being physically present was stupid, and having him come back to like OFF-SCREEN in the TITLE CRAWL is offensively bad. He should have just been someone who set up the Final Order ships but not an actual physical tangible presence in the movie, it would give a lot more weight to him as a master planner.

Kylo: The more I watch Star Wars, the more I dislike the idea that "anyone can be redeemed uwu". When you butcher a village of innocents for funsies and kill a temple full of Jedi trainees, it really bothers me that people clamor for a redemption arc. At least Zuko had to work for his.

The Lightsaber: Hoo ****ing boy! So, first point: Anakins Saber should have literally never featured in TFA. It got dropped to the core of a Gas Giant planet, it's gone, the end (and honestly even if Rey can sense Force Echoes she should have sensed that it was used to butcher children). Ignoring that though, it was torn in half and blown up in TLJ. This should have been the RotJ moment where we get to see Rey go through the movie with the new saber, but instead TROS backtracks on Anakins saber getting destroyed because it's recognizable and will sell tickets from people who are only motivated by nostalgia. It's indicative of Disney's unwillingness to take actual risks and running back to the comfort of something familiar and "safe."
Would you believe me if I told you that Palpatine's return was first revealed in Fortnite?

 

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