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Smertios's Timeline

Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Location
Brasil
I am used to theorize about Zelda at ZU, but, today, I decided to start going to other Zelda communities too.

But before I start discussing the timeline and other zelda theories with you ZD veterans, I think I should first post my timeline here.

...../-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
OoT
.....\MM-TP

Considering the few timeline theories I saw in this forum already, I assume that, at first, this timeline probably sounds impossible. Mainly because most people consider TMC to be the first game in the timeline. And, at least here, you guys believe that the 2D games come in the Young Timeline. So i better explain things first.

At ZU, the most common timelines include the following:
...../-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-LttP/LA
OoT
.....\MM-TP

There are many debates on TMC, LoZ/AoL and OoX placements, but that part seems to be a consensus there. The main reason for that is a quote by the Deku Tree in TWW, in which he (it?) states that trees have the power to bring more land to the surfice, thus creating more landmass. As I see it, this is evidence that the land can grow after TWW/PH. One of the main reasons why people place the 2D games in the YT is that, as Hyrule is shown as a vast land in them, they can't come after TWW. That quote from TWW seems to be why this statement is not true. I posted a geography thread at ZU that, hopefully, I am going to copy here too, with all possible comparisons. But the main idea to why the AT should go like TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL, having that quote from the Deku Tree into consideration, is that the land should be growing after TWW.

If we take a look at FSA map (the last paragraph was becoming too big :P), we will notice that it is pretty much identical to LttP map (except for a few details), but there is one major difference: in FSA, Hyrule is on an island and, in LttP, it is a landlocked nation. This is what makes me believe that FSA-LttP is an arch that should follow TWW. It is a perfect match to the quote from TWW.

Another interesting thing to point out is the connection between LttP and the FS subseries. I believe it is common sense that the Adult part of OoT was supposed to be the Imprisoning War mentioned in LttP backstory. But, since TWW, it is not clear when exactly Ganon was sealed in the Sacred Realm after the game. IMO, that was solved when FS and FSA came out. In the end of FSA, Ganon is sealed into the Four Sword, which seems not to match LttP backstory, when Ganon is sealed in the DW. But, in the GBA version of LttP (the one that came together with FS), you can notice that the Four Sword is actually located in a dungeon in the DW. And it is broken! This is what led us to assume that Ganon was sealed into the 4S in FSA and then, the 4S was sent to the SR for LttP.

Now, with this said, I believe I have explained why it should go TWW/PH---FS/FSA-LttP and TMC---FS/FSA-LttP. Now, there is a reason why I believe TMC is not the first game in the timeline. Basically, in the Palace of Winds (from TMC, of course), you can notice the world below the dungeon.
This pic shows it:
minishcaphyruleasisland.png


So, considering the PoW is supposed to be over Hyrule in the game, we believe that the island seen from there is actually Hyrule. This would put TMC in-between TWW and FSA. By those lines, we'd have Hyrule as a bunch of small islands in TWW; as one larger island in TMC; as a small continent in FSA; and as a lanlocked country in LttP. So, by this line, the land would be growing, as the Deku Tree predicted.

Now we are at
OoT-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA
I believe that LA position is pretty much obvious, considering the manual claims for it to be a LttP sequel.

Now, to explain the position of OoX, I have to use the assumption that, as FSA shows the first time when the trident was used by Ganon, all games in which he has the trident should come after it (notice that ganon does not have the trident in OoT, TWW or TP). Considering Ganon has to be dead prior to OoX, I believe that it should go after LttP (the only time we see Ganon dead so far).

For the LoZ/AoL segment, i have to go back to geography. In ZU, there are two placements to that arch being discussed. Some people believe it should go between TWW and TMC. Others (like me) believe it should go after LttP. The reason for that is that, if we are still going by the 'land getting bigger' quote from TWW, AoL can't possibly come before TMC. The AoL map shows Hyrule as a large, bicontinental empire, composed of many towns. In TMC, we see Hyrule as a tiny island with only one human settlement.

Also, you will notice that the state of the triforce works in my timeline pretty nicely. It is fully recovered after LttP, it is shown in the castle in OoX and is there for the AoL and LoZ backstories (the king hiding the ToC, Ganon stealing the ToP and Zelda spliting the ToW).

This is it I think. Any questions or criticism would be appreciated :)

Thank you for reading...
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
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Before anything else, I am totally against FSA/ALttP being on the adult timeline!

Also, it has been stated by Myiamoto that MC and FS come before OoT, so why are you guys still trying to contradict the guy who created them all?
 
Joined
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Location
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Before anything else, I am totally against FSA/ALttP being on the adult timeline!

In my view, there are two problems with FSA-LttP coming in the YT. The frst one is the imprisoning war. If the adult part of OoT was meant to be the IW, LttP has to follow.

The second is the presence of an ocean in FSA. That is clearly intended to show a post-flood placement of that game.

Also, it has been stated by Myiamoto that MC and FS come before OoT, so why are you guys still trying to contradict the guy who created them all?

I'm aware of that. But, if you notice well, it wasn't Miyamoto who said that FS comes first, it was Aonuma. And later, in another interview, he claimed to having been wrong about that, because he hadn't worked in FS at all.

I can get those texts as soon as I can contact my source again...
Or maybe even less if I can find the scripts from the interview online...
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Location
Portugal
In my view, there are two problems with FSA-LttP coming in the YT. The frst one is the imprisoning war. If the adult part of OoT was meant to be the IW, LttP has to follow.

The second is the presence of an ocean in FSA. That is clearly intended to show a post-flood placement of that game.



I'm aware of that. But, if you notice well, it wasn't Miyamoto who said that FS comes first, it was Aonuma. And later, in another interview, he claimed to having been wrong about that, because he hadn't worked in FS at all.

I can get those texts as soon as I can contact my source again...
Or maybe even less if I can find the scripts from the interview online...


Anyways, Aonouma is Shigeru's right hand man, so... i think it is play wrong to contradict the creators
 
Joined
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Anyways, Aonouma is Shigeru's right hand man, so... i think it is play wrong to contradict the creators

I know that. The problem is that he later said he was wrong in a different interview. At first I had TMC first too, but, after I saw that interview, i changed my timeline.

And he never said that FS was supposed to come before OoT. He only referred to FS as "the oldest tale". And, in the most recent interview, he also stated that there isn't a timeline yet, but he is working on it.

Now, if I may ask, why are you against FSA and lttP coming in the AT?
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
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Location
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Because, and this is a "touché" to your PoW thingie, if you track the master sword from OoT through TP and finally ALttP, you'll understand... Not to mention that the Master Sword ended in the bottom of the Ocean in WW
 
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Because, and this is a "touché" to your PoW thingie, if you track the master sword from OoT through TP and finally ALttP, you'll understand... Not to mention that the Master Sword ended in the bottom of the Ocean in WW

Well, Aonuma also stated that the sole fact to why the sword was in the woods in TP was because he wanted to add some sort of easter egg from LttP, which was his favorite game.

And yes, the MS ended in the bottom of the ocean in TWW, but, in OoX, it was said to have been retrieved by a Zora from the sea. This means that the sword can be retrieved from there. Actually, it is why many people place Oox between TWW and LttP...
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
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Location
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Well, Aonuma also stated that the sole fact to why the sword was in the woods in TP was because he wanted to add some sort of easter egg from LttP, which was his favorite game.

And yes, the MS ended in the bottom of the ocean in TWW, but, in OoX, it was said to have been retrieved by a Zora from the sea. This means that the sword can be retrieved from there. Actually, it is why many people place Oox between TWW and LttP...

That's true, mentioning the easter egg, but it can create somekind of timeline link between the 3 games... also, i don't remember that quote from the Zora... Are you perhaps talking about the old one?He gives you the broken Noble Sword(well, he gives you both, depending, but canonical it gives you the Noble one)
 
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That's true, mentioning the easter egg, but it can create somekind of timeline link between the 3 games...

This is true. But there is still the problem of the Imprisoning War that ties LttP to the AT.

also, i don't remember that quote from the Zora... Are you perhaps talking about the old one?He gives you the broken Noble Sword(well, he gives you both, depending, but canonical it gives you the Noble one)

To be honest, i never really got the MS in any of the oracle games. I always finish the games (including the linked ending) with the noble sword. Anyway, apparently, there are four ways to getting the MS in the oracles. One of them is with the old Zora, who says he retrieved it from the sea...
 
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The Imprisoning war and ALTTP can't take place in the Adult Timeline.
ALTTP would have to take place after WW in a new Hyrule where they would have to be up on there history of the old Hyrule's legands.
Lgands and history that the Great Flood would have wiped out.
 
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The Imprisoning war and ALTTP can't take place in the Adult Timeline.
ALTTP would have to take place after WW in a new Hyrule where they would have to be up on there history of the old Hyrule's legands.
Lgands and history that the Great Flood would have wiped out.

Well, Miyamoto himself stated that OoT is the imprisoning war, so I guess you are wrong.

Also, what evidence do you have that the flood wiped out all legends of old Hyrule?
 
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Well, Miyamoto himself stated that OoT is the imprisoning war, so I guess you are wrong.

Also, what evidence do you have that the flood wiped out all legends of old Hyrule?

Miyamoto said that way before Wind Waker came out.
The evidence is everywhere in WW.
Hyrule is a forgotten kingdom in WW,in fact no one even speaks the language.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
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youre using the fact that there is water in FSA as a reason of where your putting it. i think that using geogrpahy is a terrible way to come up with a timeline. you say that ALTTP is just completely land with no water around it. if this is the case then why would LoZ be after ALTTP? LoZ has a coast, so this destroys that idea. youre basing your ENTIRE timeline on ONE quote in the series. when the deku tree says that, he is referring to you going around and watering all the trees but that is just a SIDE QUEST. if it had more significance to it like you think it does then it would have been much more focused on in the game.

i also dont remember any interviews where Miyamoto said there is no timeline. as far as im concerned, ever since OoT there has been a CONFIRMED timeline which means there is one. Miyamoto has said he has files on his computers that relates each game to the other ones. you even said yourself that he called FS "the oldest tale" that means that literally means it would be the first game in the timeline (until MC comes along which is an obvious prequel to FS).

no offense but you have contradicted yourself a couple times while trying to argue your point. im with skull kid on this one.

another thing i thought of is that a good reason why most games are on the child timeline is beacuse of technology. it only makes sense.

WW and PH have the most technology so why would all of the games that are much more ancient-like take place after the two most technologically advanced games? that would make no sense. unless there were some catastrophic events that caused technology to revert to a more primal state (which is never explained in any game), there is no reason that the games that obviously take place in an earlier time period should go after the games with the most technology.
 
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Joined
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Miyamoto said that way before Wind Waker came out.

The evidence is everywhere in WW.

Hyrule is a forgotten kingdom in WW,in fact no one even speaks the language.

That's purely speculative though. The book of Mudora was there to tell the story...

youre using the fact that there is water in FSA as a reason of where your putting it. i think that using geogrpahy is a terrible way to come up with a timeline.

If it wasn't for that one quote from the Great deku Tree, i'd agree with you here.

you say that ALTTP is just completely land with no water around it.

Never said that. I only said that, in LttP, Hyrule is a landlocked country. If there is water somewhere other than in hyrule border, we don't know.

if this is the case then why would LoZ be after ALTTP? LoZ has a coast, so this destroys that idea.

Again, re-read what i posted.

youre basing your ENTIRE timeline on ONE quote in the series.

Not really. That quote is just one of the things supporting my views. Miyamoto confirmed that OoT was the imprisoning war. That means that LttP has to come in the AT. And I used the connections between LttP and FS/FSA to prove why the FS subseries should come in the AT too.

That quote just served to order the games...

when the deku tree says that, he is referring to you going around and watering all the trees but that is just a SIDE QUEST. if it had more significance to it like you think it does then it would have been much more focused on in the game.

Another thing that Miyamoto said is that the devs put gameplay first, and the timeline last. this is why your point here is not valid.

i also dont remember any interviews where Miyamoto said there is no timeline.

Me neither. Mainly because it was Aonuma (and not Miyamoto) who did that in the interview for Nintendo Power of 2007...

as far as im concerned, ever since OoT there has been a CONFIRMED timeline which means there is one.

Aonuma recently acknowledged that he still has no timeline ;)

Miyamoto has said he has files on his computers that relates each game to the other ones.

I have no reason to believe that is not correct. But, as far as miyamoto is involved, it only relates to the games he created. After Aonuma took his place, we don't know if the document still exists. aonuma even confirmed that he is still "working on a timeline", on his own words.

you even said yourself that he called FS "the oldest tale" that means that literally means it would be the first game in the timeline (until MC comes along which is an obvious prequel to FS).

It was aonuma who said that, not Miyamoto. Later (Nintendo Power interview, 2003; if i'm not mistaken - i'll check), he confirmed that he said that, but that he hadn't worked on FS, so he was not a reliable source about its storyline. And later he even said he is still working on a timeline...

no offense but you have contradicted yourself a couple times while trying to argue your point. im with skull kid on this one.

Show me exactly one time I contradicted myself and I can agree with you. for now I'll be going that you didn't understand what I said with LttP being a landlocked country. Remember that Bolivia is also a landlocked country, which doesn't mean there is no ocean in South America ;)

another thing i thought of is that a good reason why most games are on the child timeline is beacuse of technology. it only makes sense.

Again, gameplay comes first, timeline comes last during development.

I can think of at least one time in the Real World when technology seemed to devolve: the Dark Ages...

It's nice to theorize in a place where people actually disagree with most of what you say :D
 
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In TP you find the Master Sword in the woods.
In ALTTP you find the Master Sword in the woods,which tells me that ALTTP takes place on the same timeline.
 

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