SSHD Skyward Sword HD Discussion

[twilitfalchion]

Button controls may be a tad awkward, but they're incredibly consistent. No misfires or dropped inputs. Free camera is nice, but you're not missing much by using button controls since the original game wasn't designed around it either. The motion controls are actually somewhat worse than the Wii version, if that's even possible, mostly because they drift a lot more often due to the lack of a sensor bar. It didn't bother me that much at first, but over time that drift grated on me more and more.

Overall, my experience with the game has been better because, for one, it's saved on a lot of wasted time due to the QoL changes. The text will sometimes not be able to be skipped for some reason, but on the whole it's very snappy. The convenience of being able to play the game in handheld mode is also very appreciated. I don't want to be forced to swing my arms around or sit upright just to play Zelda, and SSHD, quirks and all, lets me do that.

That said, the new QoL, control scheme, and minor visual upgrades don't change my issues with SS as a game. I'm enjoying it more, yes, but the issues I have with the design are still there, most notably the lack of a proper overworld. It lacks any drive towards exploration, which most, if not all Zelda games feature.

I left off after the first Imprisoned fight but, gripes and all, am looking forward to continue playing.

 

[thePlinko]

You can't compare this games stamina to BOTW. Stamina in BOTW is integral to the game and incorporated into most things link does. You could remove stamina in SS and it would do nothing. It's just there for the sake of being there.

The stamina system is useless in this game and just makes things more annoying. May as well remove it. It's tacked on

ok I’m going to have to intervene here because what you just said is the exact opposite of the truth.

In SS, every single instance in the world was designed and spaced out with the stamina in mind. You couldn’t just negate the entire mechanic by endlessly shoving food in your mouth. The entire point of it was to force you to think about how you traversed the world. “Do I head directly towards my goal and risk running out of stamina and sinking in quick sand? Or do I take a detour to the stamina fruit over there and guarantee my success while taking a longer path?” It’s a very Zelda approach to stamina, that actually adds to the world design. Taking stamina away from SS would be like taking Cappy away from Mario in Odyssey. Sure, his base moveset wouldn’t be too different in the grand scheme of things, but the entire world of the game was built around him being able to throw his hat around.

Compare that to BotWs stamina, which was completely inconsequential to the world design due to being able to pretend it didn’t exist as soon as you found a good supply of stamina-boosting foods. It served as a minor inconvenience and nothing more. At no point was any mountain designed to be exactly tall enough for you to climb up with a single wheel of stamina. At no point was there ever a stretch of land that was made more challenging to navigate due to the stamina wheel. Stamina in BotW existed purely to be a limiting factor and nothing more, and I’d didn’t even do a good job of that.

And people spin attack due to imprecise controls. Not because they're trying to spin attack. When you're in the heat of combat you'll frantically attack and spin attack normally. I did it many times. In the end I just ended up stabbing enemies to avoid using up stamina.

Now, I haven’t played SSHD yet, so maybe this was also changed with the rest of the controls, but in SSSD spin attacks were performed by flicking both the Wiimote and the nunchuck at the same time, so unless you have the coordination of an infant who can’t move their hands independently you literally can’t “accidentally” do a spin attack.

 

[PoeFacedKilla]

Beat the game today. It was fine. I would put it on par with TP probably but I may change my mind when or if I replay TP on the switch(if it comes out.

All in all its a solid but majorly flawed Zelda game.

I'm just Relieved I won't have to play another game with this control scheme ever again. I don't think i'll ever replay this game again.

Hopefully we get WW and TP ports..

I think it easily beats TP and maybe WW. TP drags to get started and even tho SS does have a slow start it’s a more fun warm up than TPs was. WW has a shorter starter than either but it’s a short game and it’s dungeons are lacking. Maybe I’d say WW and SS are equal.

 

[Dragon_Onox]

ok I’m going to have to intervene here because what you just said is the exact opposite of the truth.

In SS, every single instance in the world was designed and spaced out with the stamina in mind. You couldn’t just negate the entire mechanic by endlessly shoving food in your mouth. The entire point of it was to force you to think about how you traversed the world. “Do I head directly towards my goal and risk running out of stamina and sinking in quick sand? Or do I take a detour to the stamina fruit over there and guarantee my success while taking a longer path?” It’s a very Zelda approach to stamina, that actually adds to the world design. Taking stamina away from SS would be like taking Cappy away from Mario in Odyssey. Sure, his base moveset wouldn’t be too different in the grand scheme of things, but the entire world of the game was built around him being able to throw his hat around.

Compare that to BotWs stamina, which was completely inconsequential to the world design due to being able to pretend it didn’t exist as soon as you found a good supply of stamina-boosting foods. It served as a minor inconvenience and nothing more. At no point was any mountain designed to be exactly tall enough for you to climb up with a single wheel of stamina. At no point was there ever a stretch of land that was made more challenging to navigate due to the stamina wheel. Stamina in BotW existed purely to be a limiting factor and nothing more, and I’d didn’t even do a good job of that.




Now, I haven’t played SSHD yet, so maybe this was also changed with the rest of the controls, but in SSSD spin attacks were performed by flicking both the Wiimote and the nunchuck at the same time, so unless you have the coordination of an infant who can’t move their hands independently you literally can’t “accidentally” do a spin attack.

If you haven't played it yet don't comment.

And I wasn't talking about the motion controls. I was talking about the button controls. It's very easy to do spin attacks without wanting to especially in frantic situations. Even in motion. There's no nunchuck it sjust one joycon you have to swing or flick.

Secondly you're giving SS design around stamina way too much credit. In. Botw it would break the game to have infinite stamina. It's a level of progression. In SS it's a hindrance. Sure some areas you need to Gate it but the design was there for the sake of gatekeeping what is a very VERY linear game.

You don't need to attach stamina to spin attacks.

 

[thePlinko]

If you haven't played it yet don't comment.

I don’t see how I can’t comment when you’re specifically wrong about something

And I wasn't talking about the motion controls. I was talking about the button controls. It's very easy to do spin attacks without wanting to especially in frantic situations. Even in motion. There's no nunchuck it sjust one joycon you have to swing or flick.

Ah ok, I’m looking into the actual controls for it I can definitely see how that wouldn’t be good.

Secondly you're giving SS design around stamina way too much credit. In. Botw it would break the game to have infinite stamina. It's a level of progression.

Infinite stamina wouldn’t break BotW at all, because you literally can have effectively infinite stamina from food and the game is no different from it.

In SS it's a hindrance. Sure some areas you need to Gate it but the design was there for the sake of gatekeeping what is a very VERY linear game.

How can it be gatekeeping when you have stamina from the very start? Saying stamina is a hinderance in SS is like saying having a limited amount of health is a hinderance. The world is literally designed around having stamina.

You don't need to attach stamina to spin attacks.

Having stamina tied to spin attacks is completely necessary in SS, a game where there isn’t a button for the sword and therefore it’s impossible to charge up the spin like in previous games. Spinning has always supposed to be a risk-reward system for lack of a better word. You get double damage and a larger hitbox at the cost of the time spent charging (or in the 3D games you can do quick spins, which are harder to pull off). Having the spins tied to stamina is necessary to prevent the player from spamming spins and nothing else.

 

[Dragon_Onox]

I think it easily beats TP and maybe WW. TP drags to get started and even tho SS does have a slow start it’s a more fun warm up than TPs was. WW has a shorter starter than either but it’s a short game and it’s dungeons are lacking. Maybe I’d say WW and SS are equal.

Oh yeah SS has gone past TP imo. It's well above TP. Below WW HD though. But still leagues below botw oot and even majora for me.

I don’t see how I can’t comment when you’re specifically wrong about something


Ah ok, I’m looking into the actual controls for it I can definitely see how that wouldn’t be good.




Infinite stamina wouldn’t break BotW at all, because you literally can have effectively infinite stamina from food and the game is no different from it.




How can it be gatekeeping when you have stamina from the very start? Saying stamina is a hinderance in SS is like saying having a limited amount of health is a hinderance. The world is literally designed around having stamina.



Having stamina tied to spin attacks is completely necessary in SS, a game where there isn’t a button for the sword and therefore it’s impossible to charge up the spin like in previous games. Spinning has always supposed to be a risk-reward system for lack of a better word. You get double damage and a larger hitbox at the cost of the time spent charging (or in the 3D games you can do quick spins, which are harder to pull off). Having the spins tied to stamina is necessary to prevent the player from spamming spins and nothing else.

I think you're giving SS too much credit for what is effectively a very linear game that could have been designed around not having a stamina system

And in botw you don't have infinite stamina. Even with foods. You still need to prepare that and its a progression to increase it. The entire game is built around that system.

In SS it's just in the way. Sure running up hills has some use for stamina. But thsts about it.

In previous zelda gsmes you held on to do spin slash. You can't spam spin slash if they make you pause before doing it again. My issue is the new control system makes you do spin slashes uintentionally and you run out of stamina during fights and end up getting killed.

And who cares if you can spam attacks. Most enemies will block it anyway. All you're doing is wasting time.

On the wii you and to do spin attack in a precise way. Not on this version. You can do it just by attacking constantly.

 

[thePlinko]

I think you're giving SS too much credit for what is effectively a very linear game that could have been designed around not having a stamina system

Linearity has nothing to do with it, and it could’ve been designed around not having it, but it wasnt. It was designed around having it.

And in botw you don't have infinite stamina. Even with foods. You still need to prepare that and its a progression to increase it. The entire game is built around that system.

I said you effectively have infinite stamina. Preparing food takes no effort at all. You literally just go to satori mountain and grab carrots. Every single one of them, when cooked, fully replenishes stamina and then some. There’s barely any progression to it because as soon as you do that the stamina meter is completely worthless. There is no challenge to be had from climbing a mountain because you effectively have to choose to make your stamina deplete.

In SS it's just in the way. Sure running up hills has some use for stamina. But thsts about it.

That’s like saying that Mario not being able to fly gets in the way of enjoying Super Mario Bros. That’s not the point of the game. It’s supposed to be a challenge, and the world is completely designed around it.

And who cares if you can spam attacks. Most enemies will block it anyway. All you're doing is wasting time.

Spamming attacks isn’t the problem, spamming spin attacks is. If you can spam the objectively better spin attack than what’s the point of even using the regular attack? Not having a limit on the really good attack limits the purpose of having a really good attack to begin with. that would be like having infinite ancient arrows in BotW. What would be the point of using regular arrows when you have an infinite supply of the arrows that can one-shot nearly everything in the game?

 

[Vanessa28]

Whether people place SS or any other game on top of their list is and always will be a personal choice. I must say however that I like SS so much better with these controls. I start to get used to the sword control while using buttons, everything else with buttons is okay already and I totally love the motion controls. I never fully explored SS when it was released back in 2011. But now I spend a lot of time exploring and checking things out. I enjoy it a lot. Did not expect that but am glad though

 

[Jimmu]

I am in the crowd who did quite enjoy Skyward Sword when it was released on the Wii and have been looking forward to trying it again on the Switch. Despite having pre-ordered it months in advance I am unable to pick up my copy from the store due to the current lockdown - hopefully it ends soon so I can finally get my game, amiibo, and joycons.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

I picked up my pre-order and the amiibo a few days after launch (with lockdown preventing me from doing it sooner). I haven't played as much as I'd like but I've got up to the Lanayru region for the first time.

Overall, I'm extremely happy with this remaster. The biggest quality of life change is by far the increased text speed. It's amazing how fast you can smash through dialogue. The reduced Fi interruptions are incredible as well, sometimes I forget she even exists.

I started with the pro controller to see how the new control scheme was. First impressions were good, but the spin attack & ending blow are awkward. Holding L to move the camera is also kind of a nuisance. The benefits include a way easier time rolling & stabbing. The Loftwing controls are also much nicer with stick controls. However, I think I've preferred to use the motion controls so far. I suspect it's because it's what I'm used to. D-Pad down to whistle while diving is not as easy to press as D-Pad down was on the Wii Remote, though now I'm nitpicking.

 

[Dragon_Onox]

Linearity has nothing to do with it, and it could’ve been designed around not having it, but it wasnt. It was designed around having it.







Spamming attacks isn’t the problem, spamming spin attacks is. If you can spam the objectively better spin attack than what’s the point of even using the regular attack? Not having a limit on the really good attack limits the purpose of having a really good attack to begin with. that would be like having infinite ancient arrows in BotW. What would be the point of using regular arrows when you have an infinite supply of the arrows that can one-shot nearly everything in the game?

Thats an awful comparison. Spin attacks are much slower and take more effort to pull off. Plus they are used for AoE. Not Regular attacks. I was talking about The control aspect. And no is spin attacks were infinite we wouldn't be doing them all the time because its slower and more cumbersome to use. Using an ancient arrow or normal arrow is the same level of action and gameplay.

And your comments on BOTW make no sense. There is no infinite stamina. The food aspect is a poor one because you still require to go out and get those ingredients. Its part of the games design. The stamina acts as a barrier to exploring the world. Its an integral part of that game. SS uses it for stupid things like pulling and pushing objects. The only time Stamina was needed is running up slopes or through quicksand where its a proper use for it. The rest of the time its just a nuisance. You don't need a stamina bar for spin slashes. ITs so slow and pointless at times that a recovery animation would suffice.

My point is Nintendo's inclusion of stamina bar in SS should have been restricted to only a few things. They should have used it for running only. You could remove it for everything else and the game would not be broken in any way. The spin slash doesn't need to be tied to a stamina bar. It could have a basic cool down animation or delay for multiple use. It wouldn't make any bosses or enemies easier because normal quick slashes are faster.

Being able to "push" blocks without a stamina bar wouldn't make any difference. But they add that crap in for the sake of it and its just awful. Its like in BOTW if they added Stamina usage for magnesis on blocks.

I picked up my pre-order and the amiibo a few days after launch (with lockdown preventing me from doing it sooner). I haven't played as much as I'd like but I've got up to the Lanayru region for the first time.

Overall, I'm extremely happy with this remaster. The biggest quality of life change is by far the increased text speed. It's amazing how fast you can smash through dialogue. The reduced Fi interruptions are incredible as well, sometimes I forget she even exists.

I started with the pro controller to see how the new control scheme was. First impressions were good, but the spin attack & ending blow are awkward. Holding L to move the camera is also kind of a nuisance. The benefits include a way easier time rolling & stabbing. The Loftwing controls are also much nicer with stick controls. However, I think I've preferred to use the motion controls so far. I suspect it's because it's what I'm used to. D-Pad down to whistle while diving is not as easy to press as D-Pad down was on the Wii Remote, though now I'm nitpicking.

This will be my final post on this game As I'm done with his game forever now. I will never replay this game. I will say the game is a lot better than what i originally played. Its a good game. Still the worst 3D zelda but still good. Solid 8/10 game. probably a 6/10 Zelda standard wise.

Having beaten this game and put some time into thinking about the controls overall.

The best controls would be a hybrid of both motion and buttons

Motion for sword gameplay buttons for everything else. The motion controls for anything not sword related was tacked on and terrible. Was for Wii and is for This. I don't care what anyone says. They don't add anything. It was a forced designed decision based on a 5 year Fad back in the day. I'll go back to my original point.

When Nintendo puts out BOTW2, WWHD and TP for Switch. NONE of those games will use this awful control scheme. At no point will Aunoma or Miyamoto decide to ever make another game that controls like SS. Ever.

And my advice to people using just button controls is this. Just don't use Camera control at all. Just stick to hitting ZL for Targeting and centering the camera. Even though the game feels better having camera control. Its just not worth the hassle of getting use to an awful control scheme no game will ever use again. And I will repeat that again. The controls used in SS isn't going to inspire any game. The original Wii version didn't and neither will this. Noone played SS and thought...I think we should make action adventure games with these motion controls.

Theyre just awkward and aren't good. Do they work? yes. Can you get use to them? sure. But theyre still awkward and bad controls. Theyre just functional for a game that never ever should have been designed around motion controls.

 

[Hawk of Light]

Finally got around to starting this. Unsurprisingly, it looks and runs much nicer than the Wii original, and while it's possible to get an as good or arguably better experience through emulation, I can appreciate not needing to download, install and configure things. The motion controls are much more accurate I feel and my favourite addition is the new free control camera that's on the right stick.


My main complaint is that handheld mode doesn't feel very well optimised. I get the sense that it's exactly the same just on a smaller screen, but they didn't adjust for that. The text boxes look too small to me. The button only controls also feel terribly awkward (flicking the stick with your thumb on a tiny joystick is quite uncomfortable) and losing access to the free cam without holding R is ludicrous to me. In every other Zelda game you have to press a button to activate the sword swings. Why isn't it the same here? Have the free cam work as normal, but once you press a button, the sword comes out and you use the stick for the sword swings? Seems to make more sense.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

Have the free cam work as normal, but once you press a button, the sword comes out and you use the stick for the sword swings? Seems to make more sense.

this seems like an idea worth exploring tbh

 

[Dragon_Onox]

Finally got around to starting this. Unsurprisingly, it looks and runs much nicer than the Wii original, and while it's possible to get an as good or arguably better experience through emulation, I can appreciate not needing to download, install and configure things. The motion controls are much more accurate I feel and my favourite addition is the new free control camera that's on the right stick.


My main complaint is that handheld mode doesn't feel very well optimised. I get the sense that it's exactly the same just on a smaller screen, but they didn't adjust for that. The text boxes look too small to me. The button only controls also feel terribly awkward (flicking the stick with your thumb on a tiny joystick is quite uncomfortable) and losing access to the free cam without holding R is ludicrous to me. In every other Zelda game you have to press a button to activate the sword swings. Why isn't it the same here? Have the free cam work as normal, but once you press a button, the sword comes out and you use the stick for the sword swings? Seems to make more sense.

You're absolutely right. They could have mapped controls to a B or another button+Left stick to attack. You can still use directional attacks. You don't lose anything except the ability to maybe move around and attack which isn't necessary anyhow. While also keeping the camera.

My suggestion was to flip it. Anytime you are locked on with ZL its automatically sword mode. Holding R allows you to use Sword without being in lock on mode.

this seems like an idea worth exploring tbh

Its not going to be. Skyward is a one off.

 

[Mamono101]

Quick question, ‘cause I don’t think it warrants a new thread, but did Nintendo fix the game breaking bug that SS had? I would assume they did, but there wasn’t anything about it in the marketing and promo stuff that I can remember, and I’m still quite a ways away from the dumb song quest.