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Should Link Die?

Chidori

Mongrel
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
Nowhere
No, Link doesn't have to wear green. That's just making him look like a Ripoff Peter Pan or Robin Hood, read posts please.

Also I know other game companies do this stuff but for one, this topic is based around Zelda and secondly, Link is extremely unoriginal as far as Heroes saving the world goes. They made him look EXACTLY like Peter Pan and Robin Hood like I've already mentioned. Look at Mario though, he's a plumber that has to save a Princess fighting Koopas and Goombas and all sorts of other unusual creatures on a fully brick road... That's...Pretty damn original when you compare it to Zelda, about a Legendary hero dressed in green that must explore dungeons and rescue the Princess and defeat the Monster. The same goes for Sonic etc. Pokemon, however need a gameplay change, the story is always fine but it's been too many damn years we've been playing the same damn game!
 

Mike Pothier

Lord Shaper
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Southern California
Well, Link's not flying, nor do Peter Pan and Robin Hood carry a sword and shield, in most incarnations anyway. If the best you can do to criticise his looks is to come up with two old, old storybook characters, I think you are really reaching.

Like I said, when you compare Link to the current trend for videogame superheroes, effeminate boys with huge swords and gruff space marines, Link is refreshingly different.

Lastly, if you think Nintendo has been doing the same thing for 20 years, I think you haven't been paying close enough attention to their games. In the established franchises, there has been huge shifts of innovation.
 

Chidori

Mongrel
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
Nowhere
There are a stack more people based around Link's green outfit being a hero and Link doesn't have to fly to resemble Peter Pan, he fights bad guys with his sword and so does Peter Pan. Oh, lets not forget that Fairy Mary Shuttlecock, I wonder where Nintendo got the idea of giving Link a Fairy, bares quite a resemblance to Tinkerbell m i rite?

I'm not comparing Link to anyone, I never brought up Cloud or Marcus Phoenix, I just criticized Nintendo for using the same clichè ripoff character and unoriginal story for 20 damn years. I think Zelda is "Ok" in terms of gameplay (Phantom Hourglass is genius compared to all of them) but damn I'd like a new story please!
 

Mike Pothier

Lord Shaper
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Southern California
There are a stack more people based around Link's green outfit being a hero

Okay... so who are they? So far you've named two, and the most recent is over 100 years old

and Link doesn't have to fly to resemble Peter Pan, he fights bad guys with his sword and so does Peter Pan.

So does 100 million other stock heroes. That doesn't mean they are based on Peter Pan.

Look, Link's outfit is based on the very common way people dressed in the middle ages. Green tunics were the norm back then. You think Robin Hood is the only guy to wear green in that age?

Oh, lets not forget that Fairy Mary Shuttlecock,

Okay, I have no idea WTF you are talking about here.

I wonder where Nintendo got the idea of giving Link a Fairy, bares quite a resemblance to Tinkerbell m i rite?

Or it could be that fairies (or sprites and pixies) are one of the most common fantasy races, which J. M. Barrie sure didn't create. Next you'll be telling Bram Stoker invented vampires.

I'm not comparing Link to anyone, I never brought up Cloud or Marcus Phoenix, I just criticized Nintendo for using the same clichè ripoff character and unoriginal story for 20 damn years. I think Zelda is "Ok" in terms of gameplay (Phantom Hourglass is genius compared to all of them) but damn I'd like a new story please!

There HAS been new stories. Every story in Zelda has been different. The problem is, you don't look past the initial characters and premise to see the subtlies of the franchise, how each story ties into the others, and how Nintendo is weaving a tapestry of an epic struggle of good and evil, fought over thousands of years.

No, they're just carbon copies of each other, right?
 
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Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Location
California
I don't know if anybody said this, cause honestly I don't want to sift through 5 pages of it, but I'm 99% certain, if not 100%, that Link HAS died, and subsequent "Link" characters that are encountered in future games are not the same person as the original namesake.
 
Joined
May 25, 2008
Location
In my house
I am seriously going to kill the next person who says that.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Yet that is not what this thread is about. We're not talking about dying out of game, of old age, we're talking what if he actually died in, Let's say, in the new game, and never comes back. He just dies. Gone. Forever. Nintendo killed him off. We get a new hero. OR. He dies, we play as another character for a while, and then he comes back from the dead. OR. He dies, but his spirit is still here, and etc.
 
A

Ace_Strife

Guest
I honestly can't believe there are six pages in this thread.

Any die-hard Zelda fan will realize one thing above all else - Link is merely an avater of yourself, the player.

That's what Link is. Link is you, you are Link. Without you, Link has no personality, no thoughts, no state of character.

That's the nature of the character. Link is "The Legend of Zelda," not Princess Zelda. He always will be. He's the protagonist, but he's also supposed to be you. We all know what "Link" really means...

What could happen, of course, is killing off the character Ganon. That's a topic I would think people'd discuss rather than Nintendo killing off Link.

If that doesn't convince you, then look at it from a marketing point of view.

Link has become something of a second mascot for Nintendo. Not Zelda, not Ganon, but Link.

For crying out loud, Link was the Nintendo representative in the more mature game Soul Calibur 2, not Mario. Link is what appeals to the older generation. You're not going to sell Nintendo games to today's six year olds in ten years with a game sporting Mario's face on the cover. Most of my non-Nintendo friends will play Super Smash with me because it has characters like Zero-Suit Samus and Link in it. Not Mario. It's the older crowd that shows up at E3, not the six year olds. It's the older crowd that writes the reviews, not the six year olds.

That's my opinion, anyway.

TimeLag said:
I play tons of other games. I'm just really disappointed Nintendo has been using the same damn thing for 20 years.

Yeah, well, it's hard to argue with consistent 9/10s, isn't it budy? Can you name many other series with at least ten games within the last twenty years to do this?

TimeLag said:
They made him look EXACTLY like Peter Pan and Robin Hood like I've already mentioned. Look at Mario though, he's a plumber that has to save a Princess fighting Koopas and Goombas and all sorts of other unusual creatures on a fully brick road... That's...Pretty damn original when you compare it to Zelda, about a Legendary hero dressed in green that must explore dungeons and rescue the Princess and defeat the Monster.

Um...that's what Mario does too. Mario must go through dungeons stomping on the minions of the Evil Bowser in order to defeat him and rescue the Princess Peach, every damn time. And I'm pretty sure 19 year olds like me would rather swing a sword through dragons and wolfmen and orcs than jump on the heads of rotten mushrooms and silly turtles.
 
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Chidori

Mongrel
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
Nowhere
Or it could be that fairies (or sprites and pixies) are one of the most common fantasy races, which J. M. Barrie sure didn't create. Next you'll be telling Bram Stoker invented vampires.

Dressed in Green Hero trying to save the world + A fairy from any other book other than Peter Pan... Ok you're pushing it, I really don't think Nintendo *JUST* got the idea of giving Link a fairy, I believe that this came straight from Peter Pan. Also I'm not the one to name another dressed in green hero, I can't remember what was read to me 7-8 years ago. I'm just using Peter Pan and Robin Hood specifically because I think Link resembles them a little too much that I think it's an easy ripoff.

There HAS been new stories. Every story in Zelda has been different. The problem is, you don't look past the initial characters and premise to see the subtlies of the franchise, how each story ties into the others, and how Nintendo is weaving a tapestry of an epic struggle of good and evil, fought over thousands of years.

You really must think I'm completely oblivious to Zelda Stories huh. I've played through Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, The Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass, even though I have only played them once I know exactly what they are all about and there is change in each one but the problem is that EVERY SINGLE ONE IS ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD and the Princess(Except Majora's Mask)... Which is kinda weird because Nintendo already have a Main Character saving a Princess whom is Mario. Also you brought up how the Zelda Series "ties" with each other... *snort* Oh my god you have absolutely no freaking idea on what the Zelda Timeline is, nor does anyone. The only ones that connect are the the Sequals, Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Zelda 2 etc, the rest goes to all those nerds who actually donate time into making a "Timeline Theory".

Now let me be clear. I have no facts or proof that Nintendo is ripping off Peter Pan but I have beliefs and opinions and those won't change ever if Nintendo keeps using the same Damsel in Distress, Monster take over the World storyline for Zelda games. So keep in mind this is my opinion.

[edit] Oooookkk I just noticed someone else is ranting about my... rants.

Yeah, well, it's hard to argue with consistent 9/10s, isn't it budy? Can you name many other series with at least ten games within the last twenty years to do this?

I'm sure other companies can do such things but Nintendo was the one who got the first party gold so it's easy for them to make a big franchise out of their big games like Mario and Zelda. For that they have credit and to be honest, the first Zelda game wasn't so bad, it's just they keep doing the same concept over and over. Evil Monster, Princess, god they already did this for Mario. Speaking of Mario...

Um...that's what Mario does too. Mario must go through dungeons stomping on the minions of the Evil Bowser in order to defeat him and rescue the Princess Peach, every damn time. And I'm pretty sure 19 year olds like me would rather swing a sword through dragons and wolfmen and orcs than jump on the heads of rotten mushrooms and silly turtles.

Um ok, you have absolutely no knowledge of the Mario series whatsoever. I guess that's what to expect from someone who only looks toward Zelda when it comes to Nintendo (AKA. Hardcore Fanboy). Well with the Mario series, we first get a Plumber who walks on a Brick road jumping on everything, going to the 1-2 underground encountering new enemies etc then rescue the Princess, Mario 2 has you in a dream setting encountering completely new monsters and even the Princess is fighting with new and the goal is not to stop Bowser, but to stop Wart, In Mario 3 you have a world map and kill even more new things and the 7 koopalings. Then the list goes on and on of new things with Mario, from Mario going on Vacation to Mario going to Space. Holy hell Mario has been on one wild ride accomplishing different things. Too bad Link can only do *slightly* different things.
 
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Mike Pothier

Lord Shaper
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Southern California
Dressed in Green Hero trying to save the world + A fairy from any other book other than Peter Pan... Ok you're pushing it, I really don't think Nintendo *JUST* got the idea of giving Link a fairy, I believe that this came straight from Peter Pan.

So where was that fairy that followed him around in the original? Or 2? 3? Link's Awakening? My my, the Tinker Bell rip off came to light in the FIFTH game. After fairies and sprites (who existed in fiction LONG LONG LONG before they appeared in J. M. Barrie's story, and in many, many fantasies after) were shown to exist all over Hyrule.


Also I'm not the one to name another dressed in green hero, I can't remember what was read to me 7-8 years ago. I'm just using Peter Pan and Robin Hood specifically because I think Link resembles them a little too much that I think it's an easy ripoff.


And I think you need to realize that just because Nintendo dressed him in a similar color, it doesn't mean they had them in mind in his creation. The game is based on the middle ages, where green tunics were a dime a dozen. Funny that.


You really must think I'm completely oblivious to Zelda Stories huh.

The thought had crossed my mind.

I've played through Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, The Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass,

Good start.

even though I have only played them once

Thats why I know this subject better then you.

I know exactly what they are all about and there is change in each one but the problem is that EVERY SINGLE ONE IS ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD and the Princess(Except Majora's Mask)...

Standard fantasy leaping point.

Which is kinda weird because Nintendo already have a Main Character saving a Princess whom is Mario.

And we both know if you switched Link and Mario, nobody would know the difference.

Also you brought up how the Zelda Series "ties" with each other... *snort* Oh my god you have absolutely no freaking idea on what the Zelda Timeline is, nor does anyone.

Buddy, friend... I think you need to just back out gracefully at this point... because if you keep on this line of thought, I can tear you to pieces. Do you realize that there is a whole section of this board discussing the timeline? I've been discussing this with my friends since... 10 years at least. You do not want to get in the ring with me on this one.

The only ones that connect are the the Sequals, Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Zelda 2 etc, the rest goes to all those nerds who actually donate time into making a "Timeline Theory".

Well, I am a nerd, so are most of the people here, and in case you haven't noticed, this board is dedicated to just that. So if that makes you uncomfortable, click off. Because right now, you are treading on MY land, and I know it *well*.

Now let me be clear. I have no facts or proof that Nintendo is ripping off Peter Pan

Now what should that tell you?

but I have beliefs and opinions and those won't change ever if Nintendo keeps using the same Damsel in Distress, Monster take over the World storyline for Zelda games. So keep in mind this is my opinion.

So what kind of bloody stories would you want for a *fantasy videogame*?

And if you can't defend your opinion, what the hell are you doing online? Grow a backbone. Raising the "its my opinion" shield is the last resort for people who can't defend themselves.
 

chrisbg99

OBEY THE FIST!
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Location
Fargo, ND
I always love the "It's my opinion" line. As if it that makes it invulnerable to debate.

The very fact that you put your opinion out there automatically puts it up for argument, deconstruction and rebuke. If you are unwilling (or unable) to defend your opinion then don't put it out there.
 

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
WTF is this all about. i'm already suprised that this simple topic has already reached its 6th page but man... :gasp: *speechless* whats with the long posts and quotes.

anyway as chrisbg99 said, its an "opinion topic", its not some kind of debate of right or wrong.
Now i ask you all to chill down a little before this gets out of control.

plus, this is going way of topic, link, then ganondorf and zelda, thats fine by me.
but now i see, mario, bowser, peter pan, robin hood ....(what did i miss more here?)

anyway, if you want to discuss timeline's then go to the timeline section.
if you want to debate (a friendly debate of course) about that link is a ripoff from peterpan, robinhood, king athur or whatever. then please just open a other topic for it.
 
A

Ace_Strife

Guest
TimeLag said:
Yeah, I really don't want to waste my time debating with a fanboy
Good, then you can debate with me. I'll just clear some things up. If the next Zelda game is a FPS or something, I'm not going to go in looking for positive points and go on shouting them out to the world. Rather, I'd bash Nintendo for ruining a tried and true method. I'm open-minded to any game, and own every single major Mario, Final Fantasy, Sonic, etc. games out there. Not that I have time to play them anymore. BTW, that doesn't make me a die-hard fan of any of them (except for perhaps Sonic...I've got a major bias there...)

TimeLag said:
Um ok, you have absolutely no knowledge of the Mario series whatsoever. I guess that's what to expect from someone who only looks toward Zelda when it comes to Nintendo (AKA. Hardcore Fanboy). Well with the Mario series, we first get a Plumber who walks on a Brick road jumping on everything, going to the 1-2 underground encountering new enemies etc then rescue the Princess, Mario 2 has you in a dream setting encountering completely new monsters and even the Princess is fighting with new and the goal is not to stop Bowser, but to stop Wart, In Mario 3 you have a world map and kill even more new things and the 7 koopalings. Then the list goes on and on of new things with Mario, from Mario going on Vacation to Mario going to Space. Holy hell Mario has been on one wild ride accomplishing different things. Too bad Link can only do *slightly* different things.

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. You're under the impression that you're aware of the Mario series. Well then, I'm sure you know that Mario 2 isn't a real Mario game, in that there was a Japanese game called Doki Doki Panic that was later remade with Mario characters when released to the western world becuase the original Mario 2 was supposed to be too hard and similar to the original, and Doki Doki Panic would get very poor sales in the West by itself. If you still argue that it is still a Mario game, note that you can then do that to any franchise. Simply replace all the main charaters within a struggling game with prime Nintendo characters and give it the seal "Super Mario!" or "Metroid" and release it to the west to fatten your wallet.

And regardless, Mario 3 is exactly the same thing as Mario 1 except that there is less linearity and the koopa bosses look different until you battle the big dog (turtle) himself. And then in Super Mario World it's the same old thing except that you get a little dinosaur aiding you with negligible powers that vary to this time kill Bowser's children first before him himself.

Whatever. You need to save the stupid princess and beat King Koopa no matter how you look at it. Now, with Mario Galaxy, we start to see something new. But that's the ONLY exception. Too bad Zelda doesn't have any ONLY exceptions as I'm about to demonstrate:

In Zelda, you save the Princess, or the entire parallel dimension you find yourself in, or the world from drowning, or you just want to go home.

In Ocarina of Time, you were supposed to get the Triforce first before Ganondorf, but when you failed, you were supposed to seal him away and prevent him from getting the splintered Triforce pieces in order to rule the world. In Majora's Mask, you're looking for Navi, but find yourself in another dimension that's about to be crushed by the moon by a lonely old friend of yours that got mind controlled by an ancient mask. How many games have you played like that? And then in Wind Waker, you're eventaully pulled into a quest to research history in order to reseal an evil power made manifest in the released ganon. And then, in Twilight Princess, you are forced by a Princess from another dimension to recover her throne, especially after your own princess sacrifices her life to help the first. Ganon appears, but he was originally not supposed to. Zant was the final boss until Nintendo realized that they had an extra year or something to work on the game because of the Wii.

chrisbg99 said:
I always love the "It's my opinion" line. As if it that makes it invulnerable to debate.

The very fact that you put your opinion out there automatically puts it up for argument, deconstruction and rebuke. If you are unwilling (or unable) to defend your opinion then don't put it out there.

Or, perhaps, some people keep the discussion open to debate by stating that they themselves understand that what they've posted is simply an opinion and not the truth, and welcome intelligent opposition. I wonder why you've bothered to post anything if you're not going to contribute to the debate. I wonder if you're trying to gain brownie points or something. Really, it's quite perplexing.

I find it rather insulting that you second guess my motives rather poorly. Perhaps we can start over and I won't have a negative opinion of you?

Hello, my name is Ace_Strife. I do not seek fights with people that do not insult me. I am actually quite a friendly person, but will not tolerate jabs at my intelligence. I hope that is quite understandable.
 

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