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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story Discussion Thread

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Yes, a person who spent their life fending for themselves and scrounging shipwrecks would have no idea how to handle themselves in a flight or fix a ship or know how to fly that's so unbelievable.

Also, yes, Force Ex Machina. It always has been a completely silly plot justification but the point for *****ing about it passed in the Seventies, bud.

Did you not watch the video? It touches that, but also you're ignoring that there is literally 0 character development when it comes to the force, especially compared to the other characters in the series. Look at the definition and you'll see she is a cookie cutter image of a Mary Sue. Again if you guys weren't questioning how good she was how fast with very little actual experience you guys really aren't analyzing this very much.

Also I want to point out I would have a problem with this if it was a Gary Stu, it's just a poorly written character. I'm guessing due to feedback it will be fixed in the next movie.
 

Azure Sage

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Did you not watch the video? It touches that, but also you're ignoring that there is literally 0 character development when it comes to the force, especially compared to the other characters in the series. Look at the definition and you'll see she is a cookie cutter image of a Mary Sue. Again if you guys weren't questioning how good she was how fast with very little actual experience you guys really aren't analyzing this very much.

Also I want to point out I would have a problem with this if it was a Gary Stu, it's just a poorly written character. I'm guessing due to feedback it will be fixed in the next movie.
What @Terminus said is exactly on point but also this: http://www.starwars.com/news/from-a...ho-is-stronger-with-the-force-rey-or-kylo-ren

Just imagine what would have happened had she trained her entire life. It’s not even a contest. Rey is stronger in the Force than Kylo Ren.

And it's only the first movie in the trilogy. Expecting the characters to fully develop in one part of a whole is a little silly.
 
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What @Terminus said is exactly on point but also this: http://www.starwars.com/news/from-a...ho-is-stronger-with-the-force-rey-or-kylo-ren



And it's only the first movie in the trilogy. Expecting the characters to fully develop in one part of a whole is a little silly.

I just can't play along with assumptions that big, even if the movie is designed to be a trilogy I personally think if it requires such huge assumptions that weren't present in any other movie in the series, then it's just poorly written. I still like the character but damn they could have just toned it down a few notches, no need to reveal how bad ass she is right away in the first movie. Where is the build up? And at the same time no matter how you stack it, it discredits Kylo Ren's image and impact on the series. Now I no longer assume he is going to have a chance to beat her when they are both trained, instead I already know the out come. I'd rather have the bad guy feel like he has the potential to actually win.

I'm quite honestly shocked you weren't questioning "How the hell did she do that so quickly?" during the movie. It wasn't just me, it was everyone I know thinking the same thing. I personally think that's just poor writing, but I'm glad you guys can play along. Quite honestly that is really my only dislike of this movie, and the only reason I can't give it a 9 or above out of 10.
 

Azure Sage

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I just can't play along with assumptions that big, even if the movie is designed to be a trilogy I personally think if it requires such huge assumptions that weren't present in any other movie in the series, then it's just poorly written. I still like the character but damn they could have just toned it down a few notches, no need to reveal how bad ass she is right away in the first movie. Where is the build up? And at the same time no matter how you stack it, it discredits Kylo Ren's image and impact on the series. Now I no longer assume he is going to have a chance to beat her when they are both trained, instead I already know the out come. I'd rather have the bad guy feel like he has the potential to actually win.

I'm quite honestly shocked you weren't questioning "How the hell did she do that so quickly?" during the movie. It wasn't just me, it was everyone I know thinking the same thing. I personally think that's just poor writing, but I'm glad you guys can play along.
We weren't questioning it because we actually watched the movie and saw that Rey had been fighting for her survival since she was a kid and that she actually knows how to fight and has known for years. And we also saw that she was very Force-sensitive, referencing the seen with Maz when she touched the lightsaber. So no, I was not surprised that she could do what she did because I paid attention to how her character was presented. It's fine if you don't like that kind of writing, but just because it's not thrown in your face doesn't mean it's not there.
 
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We weren't questioning it because we actually watched the movie and saw that Rey had been fighting for her survival since she was a kid and that she actually knows how to fight and has known for years. And we also saw that she was very Force-sensitive, referencing the seen with Maz when she touched the lightsaber. So no, I was not surprised that she could do what she did because I paid attention to how her character was presented. It's fine if you don't like that kind of writing, but just because it's not thrown in your face doesn't mean it's not there.
Being force sensitive doesn't imply her ability based on established lore, therefore its assumption. Clearly fits the profile of Mary Sue based on established characters. No other characters in the movies, even those who are force sensitive gained abilities like that so quickly, much less being able to compare to trained by masters individuals.
 

Lozjam

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We weren't questioning it because we actually watched the movie and saw that Rey had been fighting for her survival since she was a kid and that she actually knows how to fight and has known for years. And we also saw that she was very Force-sensitive, referencing the seen with Maz when she touched the lightsaber. So no, I was not surprised that she could do what she did because I paid attention to how her character was presented. It's fine if you don't like that kind of writing, but just because it's not thrown in your face doesn't mean it's not there.
Furthermore, there is plenty of proof leading to the fact that Rey was indeed trained by Luke before he left her.

For example, we know that Rey knew where Luke even was before she was led to the coordinates
Kylo Ren said:
I see it. An island surrounded by an ocean. You are waiting

Not to mention, her visions through the force as well served as a flashback.

It is clear that her memories were repressed before this point. So it is likely that Luke wiped her memory before she was sent to Jakku in order to protect her. Ren reading her mind merely served as a catalyst that had her get some of her memory back.
 
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Furthermore, there is plenty of proof leading to the fact that Rey was indeed trained by Luke before he left her.

For example, we know that Rey knew where Luke even was before she was led to the coordinates


Not to mention, her visions through the force as well served as a flashback.

It is clear that her memories were repressed before this point. So it is likely that Luke wiped her memory before she was sent to Jakku in order to protect her. Ren reading her mind merely served as a catalyst that had her get some of her memory back.
If that is the case, I'll feel better when its confirmed. If that's not the case (or something along those lines) I don't like it.
 

Lozjam

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Being force sensitive doesn't imply her ability based on established lore, therefore its assumption. Clearly fits the profile of Mary Sue based on established characters. No other characters in the movies, even those who are force sensitive gained abilities like that so quickly, much less being able to compare to trained by masters individuals.
Kylo Ren was shot 2 times, clearly overpowered Rey, and was emotionally unstable. The only reason that Rey got out of there alive is:

A. Ren doesn't want to kill Rey. He wanted to keep her alive so that she could become his apprentice. It is a lot harder to stop and contain someone over killing.
B. Ren was extremely injured. Why don't you try getting shot in the leg twice by extremely volatile blaster bolts and trying to fight immediately after?
C. Rey caught him off guard. Ren had won the fight. He had her pinned against an giant cliff. Rey merely found a way to outsmart him, catch him off guard.
 

Azure Sage

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Being force sensitive doesn't imply her ability based on established lore, therefore its assumption. Clearly fits the profile of Mary Sue based on established characters. No other characters in the movies, even those who are force sensitive gained abilities like that so quickly, much less being able to compare to trained by masters individuals.
Anakin Skywalker comes to mind when you say that. And what were her abilities? A Jedi mind trick? Being able to adjust her style of fighting to match a lightsaber? (if you paid close attention at the start of her fight she was trying to use her lightsaber like her staff and obviously that wasn't working very well until she started using the saber like a saber. after that she was kicking ass.) Are those really that far-fecthed for someone with incredible Force-sensitivity?
 
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Anakin Skywalker comes to mind when you say that. And what were her abilities? A Jedi mind trick? Being able to adjust her style of fighting to match a lightsaber? (if you paid close attention at the start of her fight she was trying to use her lightsaber like her staff and obviously that wasn't working very well until she started using the saber like a saber.) Are those really that far-fecthed for someone with incredible Force-sensitivity?
Give me examples where Anakin (or Luke) was able to learn an ability within 56 seconds like a Jedi Mind trick. It took Luke at minimum 3 movies to use a Jedi Mind trick. The fight with Kylo Ren at the end wasn't as much of an issue for me, Kylo probably could have killed her at the point where he tried recruiting her, and he was wounded like you said. I can mentally make myself play along with that one.
Kylo Ren was shot 2 times, clearly overpowered Rey, and was emotionally unstable. The only reason that Rey got out of there alive is:

A. Ren doesn't want to kill Rey. He wanted to keep her alive so that she could become his apprentice. It is a lot harder to stop and contain someone over killing.
B. Ren was extremely injured. Why don't you try getting shot in the leg twice by extremely volatile blaster bolts and trying to fight immediately after?
C. Rey caught him off guard. Ren had won the fight. He had her pinned against an giant cliff. Rey merely found a way to outsmart him, catch him off guard.
I agree with this, as I stated to Azure. My issue was more with the mind ****ing Kylo at full strength, and how quickly she just knew how to Jedi Mind trick.
 

Lozjam

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Give me examples where Anakin (or Luke) was able to learn an ability within 56 seconds like a Jedi Mind trick. It took Luke at minimum 3 movies to use a Jedi Mind trick. The fight with Kylo Ren at the end wasn't as much of an issue for me, Kylo probably could have killed her at the point where he tried recruiting her, and he was wounded like you said. I can mentally make myself play along with that one.

I agree with this, as I stated to Azure. My issue was more with the mind ****ing Kylo at full strength, and how quickly she just knew how to Jedi Mind trick.
Luke was never getting mind raped by anyone. In dangerous situations, Jedi have always been used to discover force powers. Plus, Kylo himself taught her how to do it. You can learn how to throw a punch right away when people do it to you.

Plus, mind control is a 2 way conduit. Ren was simultaneously making himself vulnerable when he invaded Rey. When this happens, it has nothing to do of skill, but of sheer will. People with no Force talent can resist Kylo Ren for a short time(as seen with Poe). So people with the power of the force can be fair game to overpower him.
 

Lozjam

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Ben: "Use the Force Luke"
Luke: *uses the Force to blow up the Death Star with like 5 minutes of prior training*

And you're concerned about Rey using a Jedi mind trick?
Qui Gon Jinn
"Use the force Anakin"
Precedes to use the force to win a race that he has never even won in his life when he is like 9 years old with no training whatsoever.
 
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Ben: "Use the Force Luke"
Luke: *uses the Force to blow up the Death Star with like 5 minutes of prior training*

And you're concerned about Rey using a Jedi mind trick?
Also talked about in the video I linked. I swear none of you watched it, but whatever lol.
Qui Gon Jinn
"Use the force Anakin"
Precedes to use the force to win a race that he has never even won in his life when he is like 9 years old with no training whatsoever.

That's explained actually, Jedi's have naturally better reflexes, and can even see things before they happen. If you had that ability vs a bunch of normal (yet experienced) pilots you could still potentially win. Within the Star Wars universe this was possible and established. Is there something more in line with what I'm asking like an experienced Jedi Trick vs another Jedi as quickly as Rey?
 

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