REAL TIMELINE

[Moblinking5000]

why merge them into one timeline when there's canonically confirmed to be three and for a reason? Seems pointless and like a recipe for disaster in terms of doing it accurately.

This is what I keep telling people, especially in regards to the placement for BotW.

 

[Kerest]

This is what I keep telling people, especially in regards to the placement for BotW.

Eh. For BotW, I could see Nintendo doing it just to end the nightmare that is managing the three timelines. They can always justify it using the Triforce.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Eh. For BotW, I could see Nintendo doing it just to end the nightmare that is managing the three timelines. They can always justify it using the Triforce.

How is managing the three timelines a ''nightmare''? The three branches have clear themes, and each placement makes sense.

How would a merger even make sense, when you consider that:

-There's no reference to a merger event taking place?
-There's no telling what stays and what goes(Which facts from which timelines are true?)
-Doing so undermines the point of things such as, say, TWW's ending, where Hyrule is eradicated in that timeline.

Here's an argument for where I put BotW:


https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...ne-placement-of-botw-and-my-conclusion.60315/

Short version:

The CT doesn't have the sages from OoT being awakened, wheras Hyrule is gone in the AT. That only leaves one branch.

 

[Kerest]

How is managing the three timelines a ''nightmare''? The three branches have clear themes, and each placement makes sense.

Dealing with our timeline arguments, and the placements of games within each timeline. Including the argument as to which one BotW is part of. That's the nightmare.

 

[Moblinking5000]

The only timeline arguments I've seen since 2011 aside from a few pwople who defy the official timeline are the ones about BotW, and the developers resolved that by saying that they're not going to clarify as to where BotW takes place aside from it being at the end of one of the timelines. The placements of games have remained consistent aside from the Oracle games(which may be due to the fact that it doesn't have a rigid placement to begin with just looking at it), even with new games added.

Not to mention that they have literally all the freedom in the world with three timelines; there's more you can do with three than one.

 

[Kerest]

Three timelines take more work to keep track of, too. It's no coincidence that one timeline has more games than the other two.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Bottom line: We shouldn't assume something as ridiculous as a convergence until Aonuma or someone else from Nintendo of Japan says, ''There's a convergence.'' Convergence has many problems and complications, and Occam's Razor says that the simplest solution is the most likely.

 

[Kerest]

Occam's Razor, when stated in that way, is a logical fallacy. It is almost never the simplest solution, no matter the subject being looked at. And even when stated correctly, it's wrong at least 60% of the time unless it is amended to include "of the solutions supported by evidence and repeated testing." And even then, it's wrong often enough that entire branches of science no longer use it. I really wish people would stop using that as if it somehow supports their argument rather than suggesting their argument is inherently wrong on some fundamental level and thus should be discarded outright as unworthy of even the most basic consideration.

Besides, if you go by what Aonuma is saying as of late, BotW is up to us as to where to place it. Until he changes his mind, he's ceded control over BotW's portion of the timeline and how we arrived there to the players themselves. So, technically, any placement at all is officially unsupported.

But, if you want to continue, shall we take this to another thread? We've derailed this one pretty hard.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I'm just going wrap this up by saying why I think Convergence is unlikely, and then you can PM me if you insist on continuing this. The OR stuff may not have been the prime way of directing the discussion on my part, soI'll concede for now and focus on an earlier comment:

You said that you believe that the Triforce had something to do with this ''Convergence'', but how? Are we supposed to assume that someone just wished on the Triforce to bring the three branches together? Why would they do that? And how would they even know about the existence of the two other branches on what ever timeline the convergence takes place in? What parts stay? What parts go? Why isn't such an event mentioned in BotW?

 

[Kerest]

Why would they know any details of a wish that would have happened more than ten thousand years prior?

 

[Moblinking5000]

Why would they know any details of a wish that would have happened more than ten thousand years prior?

The events of OoT are still remembered in BotW,(see the Zora Monuments, specifically the fifth one), and that happened far further in the past than the supposed wish. You would think people would remember something as reality altering as the wish?

 

[Kerest]

If BotW is part of the Downfall timeline, those same monuments display that they don't remember a wish that happened in that very timeline and was a major influence on events to follow. Then again, there's in-game evidence that OoT is just a legend to them (the text of the amiibo outfit), suggesting that even if it is a real part of their history they no longer remember it entirely as such.

Yes, I fully accept it's possible they forgot a wish to merge the timelines. It's not even the only time in BotW they show they've forgotten an important part of their history; forgetting how the Sheikah technology works or even where most of it is prior to Link's century-long nap is a plot point in the game's backstory. Ganon's devastation cycle has likely repeatedly robbed them of important historical knowledge, as shown in how games placed later in a timeline show a degraded or even nonexistent knowledge of games placed prior.

 

[Moblinking5000]

If BotW is part of the Downfall timeline, those same monuments display that they don't remember a wish that happened in that very timeline and was a major influence on events to follow. Then again, there's in-game evidence that OoT is just a legend to them (the text of the amiibo outfit), suggesting that even if it is a real part of their history they no longer remember it entirely as such.

1. Amiibos are questionable in terms of canoncity, since you require real life items to access the items, and it makes no sense in some cases, such as Wolf Link existing outside of the twilight and without Midna transforming him.

2. It being called a ''legend'' doesn't mean much, since the opening of TWW is called a ''legend'', and yet we know the events of OoT and the Great Flood are history in the AT. Legend of Korra has ''Legend'' in its title, and yet it's a sequel to Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Also, how does the wish maker know about the other timelines? You still haven't answered that.

 

[Kerest]

1. Amiibos are questionable in terms of canoncity, since you require real life items to access the items, and it makes no sense in some cases, such as Wolf Link existing outside of the twilight and without Midna transforming him.

2. It being called a ''legend'' doesn't mean much, since the opening of TWW is called a ''legend'', and yet we know the events of OoT and the Great Flood are history in the DT. Legend of Korra has ''Legend'' in its title, and yet it's a sequel to Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Also, how does the wish maker know about the other timelines? You still haven't answered that.

1. The amiibo outfits match the text style of the in-game, not-amiibo BotW outfit of the same style. They are also worded in-character for the games, not out of character. Considering we never got a ruling on whether or not they are canon, the fact they provide setting details suggests they are.

2. Historical cultures that had mythology-as-history setups similar to Hyrule also had people who lived at the same time the legends were common that wrote down that the legends were not considered entirely factual in their own societies, but more allegorical accountings of history. There's no real reason to believe Hyrule would be any different, especially considering the fact that the entire quest to look up the Zora monuments in BotW suggests they are not teaching those legends as history. There would be no need to hunt down the monuments to be compiled into a book if the Zora knew what was written on them.

3. If the amiibo outfits are canon and BotW is part of only one timeline, then you'd have to answer that question as to how they knew the history of all three timelines since the amiibo outfits represent games from all three timelines. In order to justify them not at least knowing about other timelines, you either have to merge the timelines or start removing parts of the game as being canon. And, frankly, we're assuming the wishmaker wouldn't simply end up finding out from the Triforce itself if they bothered to ask. Why they would ask, how they would know to ask, or even what question would lead to such an answer is far too massive of a topic to explore; there's too many possible answers. And that's assuming Hyrulians didn't find out through some other method we're just not aware of or simply didn't know they existed from the very beginning; given they know time travel is real and in at least one timeline that alternate versions of Hyrule exist, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to figure out that other timelines exist or for someone to be dumb enough to think merging them is a good idea (maybe Ganon did it to gain more power? Seems like something dumb he'd try, and it would explain Calamity Ganon).

 

[TGTelescope]

the reason I started this was so that the timeline could make sense to me and for others who did not like it. Most things to come from nintendo such as the timeline are things said so that the timeline they created could make sense in my opinion. I just wanted a way to understand the placement of BotW as it cannot be the same in all three timelines as there must be variations, even slight. I had come up with several timelines in the past but this one made most sense according to the links. I had one which was chronological with the games that came out. One the involved the idea that skyward sword was not at the start. The fight with demise was at the start but due to time travel this could have happened centuries in the past and as we know hylians age slowly. Also, skyloft was castle town just lifted skyward. I had one that followed evolution. and my final one which involved all except the one that involved the release of the games.