Ravio Item Shop theory

[Gorozoron]

The items Ravio sell are his items that he got from lorule's versions of dungeons explaining, correct me if I'm wrong , why there's no big important tools in lorule's dungeons that aren't like related to Link's mural powers ( He didn't pick those up cuz they weren't useful for him and everyone else ) and that also explains why he made it a sort of renting deal , since he doesn't have a infinite amount of those things so if he just sold them his business would fail and I know he will let you buy them but that's for like high prices the common regular person couldn't afford so it wouldn't be common

 

[Uwu_Oocoo2]

That sounds cool. I don't think that Ravio is quite brave enough to brave his realm's dungeons. Perhaps they were items from the Royal Treasury he stole, or maybe he invented them.

 

[Gorozoron]

That sounds cool. I don't think that Ravio is quite brave enough to brave his realm's dungeons. Perhaps they were items from the Royal Treasury he stole, or maybe he invented them.

The dungeons could of been like hyrules less chaotic dungeons or Normal places before the downfall making them easy to collect

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I've never been a fan of the upside-down triforce = reverse bravery = coward perspective. While playing, I felt it was more accurate that Ravio had wisdom, but confused it for being a coward. He knew that the tools he provided were going to be useful/necessary. He could have used his business-savvyness/for-sight to commission the creation of the items. The pricing scheme doesn't seem very viable, as a business, in of itself, but rather a veiled lesson/test in being able to plan ahead.

 

[Gorozoron]

I've never been a fan of the upside-down triforce = reverse bravery = coward perspective. While playing, I felt it was more accurate that Ravio had wisdom, but confused it for being a coward. He knew that the tools he provided were going to be useful/necessary. He could have used his business-savvyness/for-sight to commission the creation of the items. The pricing scheme doesn't seem very viable, as a business, in of itself, but rather a veiled lesson/test in being able to plan ahead.

Lorule is depict as a corrupted opposite version of hyrule so it's more likely that is how it's intended , Hilda while not being a total idiot is tricked not being as wise as zelda, Yuga , still a threat but not as physically strong as ganon so resorting to magic and non physical means so Ravio being a bit of a coward would fit. his greed and overal want for money could show that he cares more about benefitting only himself even tho he's not willing to admit it caring more about self preservation not willing to risk his life for anyone

 

[ArchAngel217]

Lorule is depict as a corrupted version of hyrule so it's more likely that is how it's intended , Hilda while not being a total idiot is tricked not being as wise as zelda, Yuga , still a threat but not as physically strong as ganon so resorting to magic so Ravio being a bit of a coward would fit

Um... I'mma correct you here, if you don't mind. Lorule is an opposite version of Hyrule. Hilda is naive, not wise. Ravio has cowardice, not courage. Yuga is weak and vain, not powerful - of course he merges with Ganon so I guess that's negated.

 

[Gorozoron]

Um... I'mma correct you here, if you don't mind. Lorule is an opposite version of Hyrule. Hilda is naive, not wise. Ravio has cowardice, not courage. Yuga is weak and vain, not powerful - of course he merges with Ganon so I guess that's negated.

IG I should have phrased it as a flipped version
what I meant was that hyrule is a depicted as a thriving nation whilst Lorule is the exact opposite

 

[ArchAngel217]

Wrong quote

What? No, you said "corrupt" instead of "opposite".

 

[Gorozoron]

[

What? No, you said "corrupt" instead of "opposite".

IG I should have phrased it as a flipped version
what I meant was that hyrule is a depicted as a thriving nation whilst Lorule is the exact opposite
I just didn't directly say it's a opposite

 

[ArchAngel217]

[

IG I should have phrased it as a flipped version
what I meant was that hyrule is a depicted as a thriving nation whilst Lorule is the exact opposite
I just didn't directly say it's a opposite

OK.

 

[Fraxinus]

I don't fully believe Yuga to be Ganon's Lorule counterpart, but for the sake of simplicity he does seem to likely be representative of one of the three virtues tying into Lorule's triforce, at least for this specific story. Lorule's virtues likely aren't courage, wisdom and power, but I wouldn't necessarily say they must be opposites of those. While their triforce is presumably cyan, magenta and yellow as opposed to Hyrule's red, green and blue--and this does make the colors opposites--they also overlap to create a continuous color wheel (like this), so they may be in between virtues of power/wisdom, courage/power, wisdom/courage which likely have their own terms. You can see a rotation with Ravio, [Yuga], and Hilda, in that Ravio was one who evoked wisdom, while Hilda was more power-leaning. And for the story of A Link Between Worlds, Yuga was effectively being painted (pun intended) as the hero, at least from Hilda's perspective.

As for Ravio's items, I like the theory, but it's one of those things that probably can't be really investigated beyond just a hunch, because there's just not enough we know about Ravio and how he may have or may not have explored Lorule prior to the events of ALBW. There's also Sheerow, his pet "bird", who seems to play a similar function as the flutebird from ALttP to him, could Ravio have just called upon Sheerow to retreat if things got dangerous, if he did perhaps venture out? While Ravio may not have been a traditional warrior, that doesn't necessarily mean he is incapable of surviving with tactics or diversion, either.

It's been a long time for me but I do vaguely recall Hilda knowing a fair bit about Ravio in believing he was a reincarnation of whatever cycle Lorule has that corresponds to Hyrule's, in that he was probably one of the "chosen" or whatever. I think in the ending sequence this was hinted at in her dismay with him of having "failed" her. I don't know if it means that he wasn't courageous or hero-like, or that he failed to advise her if he was more wisdom-leaning, or what, but it's possible that he had been tasked to gather weapons for whatever reason and ran off with them. But again, there's nothing to really suggest or refute the idea so it's just kind of playing with ideas in a vaccuum.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Neither of those explanations sit well with me @ArchAngel217 and @Gorozoron. Who would create a magic, holy, relic; based around flaws? For starters, just seeing Ravio as nothing more than a coward is like seeing the locations in Termina as only the stages of grief. Yes, it obviously plays into the experience of the game, but can diminish the full appreciation, if that's all we look at. He may see himself as a coward, and others may even see him as such, though that does not truly define a person. Everyone has redeeming qualities. On top of that, If all Lorule is, is a negative reflection of Hyrule, then saving it is pointless. Caring about it's people and history are also pointless. It will just exist as a byproduct of the fabulous Hyrule. No, it seems far more likely that the Lorule triforce was also built, in it's own history, on ideals for people to strive for.

They were probably built by the same three goddesses, in fact. Unless, that is, we want to open up the theory about Demise being the Lorulian equivalent of Hylia, or even on par with the three. Either way, whoever did create the Lorule triforce would have based them on virtues that they deemed important, possibly even the most important. I see this happening in two ways. The way I saw it, as I played through the game, is that the nature between the two worlds is not opposites, but twisted. The town is still a town, just twisted. I found Ravio to be wise, Hilda to be strong, and Yuga to be brave. Unfortunately, for them, they were comparing themselves to their other-world counterparts. This means that Ravio saw himself as a coward, not realizing his wisdom.

The other way I can see it, now that I'm revisiting the issue, is that it's caution mistaken for cowardliness. Ambition, or hope, mistaken for naiveness. Perhaps it is slyness that is mistaken for weakness. Either way, the Lorulians are disconnected from their triforce, making it dificult for them to realize their own strengths.

 

[Gorozoron]

Neither of those explanations sit well with me @ArchAngel217 and @Gorozoron. Who would create a magic, holy, relic; based around flaws? For starters, just seeing Ravio as nothing more than a coward is like seeing the locations in Termina as only the stages of grief. Yes, it obviously plays into the experience of the game, but can diminish the full appreciation, if that's all we look at. He may see himself as a coward, and others may even see him as such, though that does not truly define a person. Everyone has redeeming qualities. On top of that, If all Lorule is, is a negative reflection of Hyrule, then saving it is pointless. Caring about it's people and history are also pointless. It will just exist as a byproduct of the fabulous Hyrule. No, it seems far more likely that the Lorule triforce was also built, in it's own history, on ideals for people to strive for.

They were probably built by the same three goddesses, in fact. Unless, that is, we want to open up the theory about Demise being the Lorulian equivalent of Hylia, or even on par with the three. Either way, whoever did create the Lorule triforce would have based them on virtues that they deemed important, possibly even the most important. I see this happening in two ways. The way I saw it, as I played through the game, is that the nature between the two worlds is not opposites, but twisted. The town is still a town, just twisted. I found Ravio to be wise, Hilda to be strong, and Yuga to be brave. Unfortunately, for them, they were comparing themselves to their other-world counterparts. This means that Ravio saw himself as a coward, not realizing his wisdom.

The other way I can see it, now that I'm revisiting the issue, is that it's caution mistaken for cowardliness. Ambition, or hope, mistaken for naiveness. Perhaps it is slyness that is mistaken for weakness. Either way, the Lorulians are disconnected from their triforce, making it dificult for them to realize their own strengths.

Lorule's triforce was destroyed iirc so that could of removed or weaken their corresponding traits allowing them to be slightly twisted
limiting them
without the triforce their good traits are highly weakened
They could of been cursed by the goddesses for destroying their gift to them

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Lorule's triforce was destroyed iirc so that could of removed or weaken their corresponding traits allowing them to be slightly twisted
limiting them
without the triforce their good traits are highly weakened
They could of been cursed by the goddesses for destroying their gift to them

So, Link is less courageous without the trifoce? I feel like the lore we know works against that idea. the way the triforce works, when Ganondorf touches it suggests that link is connected to the Triforce of Wizdom because he is so courageous, and not that he is so courageous because of the relic.

Lorule's virtues likely aren't courage, wisdom and power, but I wouldn't necessarily say they must be opposites of those. While their triforce is presumably cyan, magenta and yellow as opposed to Hyrule's red, green and blue--and this does make the colors opposites--they also overlap to create a continuous color wheel (like this), so they may be in between virtues of power/wisdom, courage/power, wisdom/courage which likely have their own terms.

I can dig it.

 

[ArchAngel217]

So, Link is less courageous without the trifoce? I feel like the lore we know works against that idea. the way the triforce works, when Ganondorf touches it suggests that link is connected to the Triforce of Wizdom because he is so courageous, and not that he is so courageous because of the relic.

No. Link is Courageous because of the Spirit of the Hero. The Triforce just seals it. In Lorule, Ravio is not courageous because the Triforce was destroyed, and thus the Spirit of the Hero is nonexistent.

Edit: I found something new.

Spoiler

"The Loforce I think is based on different virtues, but they are still good values:

Power <> Beauty
Wisdom <> Faith
Courage <> Truth

Truth beats Beauty (Truth can see past Beauty and see a person for who they really are).
Beauty beats Faith (Beauty can lead people astray and cause them to act against their faith)
Faith beats Truth (People will believe in their faith, even if it isn't true).

Yuga (Beauty) leads Hilda astray and causes her to agree to stealing the Hyforce, even though it goes against her beliefs/faith and knows it is wrong.

Hilda (Faith) believes that Yuga is working for her. She has faith the plan will work and talks a lot about betrayal.

Ravio (Truth) sees through Yuga and sees what the true path to saving Lorule is, but is unable to change Hilda's faith, so has to leave Lorule and do it alone."