Poll: Should There Be a Game Where the Current Link Gets Killed and a New One Comes?

[JuicieJ]

First sentence: zomg side scrolling isn't Zelda's style!!1on1!! (yet we still got AoL)
Second sentence: zomg innovative and trying out different ideas isn't Nintendo's style!!1on1!! (yet we got...everything Nintendo has ever made)

1.) No Zelda formula had been established upon Zelda II. Nintendo was seeing which style people liked better.
2.) Being innovative is Nintendo's style. Their motto is "creating something unique" for cryin' out loud.

Last two sentences: I will end it myself if need be!!

Good luck with that. You got about as much chance with it as fixing humanity.

 

[Ventus]

1.) No Zelda formula had been established upon Zelda II. Nintendo was seeing which style people liked better.
2.) Being innovative is Nintendo's style. Their motto is "creating something unique" for cryin' out loud.

Good luck with that. You got about as much chance with it as fixing humanity.

1) Doesn't matter, they still tried something new.
2) Sure enough it is. And in the process of Nintendo's search for innovative gameplay or w/e they choose to be innovative, they...guess what? Try new ideas.

Drum agrees. :yes:

 

[JuicieJ]

1) Doesn't matter, they still tried something new.
2) Sure enough it is. And in the process of Nintendo's search for innovative gameplay or w/e they choose to be innovative, they...guess what? Try new ideas.

Trying something new and being something you're not are two totally different things, though.

 

[Ventus]

Trying something new and being something you're not are two totally different things, though.

You can be something you're not by trying something new. Simple as that.

For all of your "change is good" thoughts, why can't Link die and his son be replaced? It isn't as horrendous a thought as voice acting or if Zelda was a girl, sheesh.

 

[Pirgah]

It wouldn't really feel right for Link to die before the ending of a game, as player character deaths never seem to truly work from my point of view, constant game overs followed by reattempts prevent the player from taking the player's death that seriously, and could cause similar situations which led to the Decline timeline's nickname "Cop-Out Timeline".

However, I think it would be an interesting idea to try and give the player a greater sense of mortality, perhaps a near death experience, or perhaps have Link perish from some sort of injury inflicted by the final boss. I have trouble accepting the idea of Link being killed, but would like to a game where he at least accepts his own mortality. That way, The Triforce of Courage might feel a little more meaningful.

On a side note (Somewhat on-topic in terms of the "new hero" side of this thread) I think it would be at least somewhat interesting to see Link's outfit get a bit of a revamp, still keep the same general design, but changing or adding something that makes his design a little more fresh.

 

[JuicieJ]

You can be something you're not by trying something new. Simple as that.

You just further strengthened what I've been saying...

For all of your "change is good" thoughts, why can't Link die and his son be replaced? It isn't as horrendous a thought as voice acting or if Zelda was a girl, sheesh.

I said myself that it's not a bad plot device, but it would ultimately lead to ridiculous controversy, especially if Link were to magically come back. Case and point: Sonic's death and kiss with Elise in Sonic 2006.

 

[Ventus]

You just further strengthened what I've been saying...

I said myself that it's not a bad plot device, but it would ultimately lead to ridiculous controversy, especially if Link were to magically come back. Case and point: Sonic's death and kiss with Elise in Sonic 2006.

I don't see how. But that's me.

Ridiculous controversy like...TP's realism? TWW's cartoon graphics? SS and its horrendous linearity?

Oh and btw, nothing the Zelda series has ever produced, not even the likes of CD-I games or Skyward Sword, are comparable to...whatever the heck you mentioned in bold. Not even giving Zelda a VOICE would do that.

 

[JuicieJ]

Ridiculous controversy like...TP's realism? TWW's cartoon graphics? SS and its horrendous linearity?

The graphics thing was just fans being unreasonable (and were have as controversial as a death would be). I'm not saying reacting to Link dying would be reasonable, I'm just saying that it would make a bit more sense, since Zelda is a story about the Hero rising to the occasion to save the day. It's the Hero's Journey, not the Hero's Failure (which is why I think OoT Link's canonical death is so incredibly stupid).

Linearity has also been part of the series for quite some time, and the fact that SS actually had a bit more freedom in the gameplay than the majority recent titles makes that last statement irrelevant.

Oh and btw, nothing the Zelda series has ever produced, not even the likes of CD-I games or Skyward Sword, are comparable to...whatever the heck you mentioned in bold. Not even giving Zelda a VOICE would do that.

"Has ever produced" being the key phrase. Plus, with as cop-outish as Link's canonical death in the official timeline was, I have very solid reasoning to believe that Link dying in a Zelda game would come across as cheesy and unnecessary, especially if he were to be revived. It would very likely feel like this:

 

[Pirgah]

The graphics thing was just fans being unreasonable

I agree with this, but due to the diverse nature of Zelda fans, things like that happen. (Fans complain about the Cel Shaded Toon art style of The Wind Waker, then proceed to complain about the darker and more realistic art style of Twilight Princess... They are not making this easy for Nintendo are they )

Linearity has also been part of the series for quite some time, and the fact that SS actually had a bit more freedom in the gameplay than the majority recent titles makes that last statement irrelevant.

How? Sure, previous Zelda games featured a fixed dungeon completion order, but Skyward Sword reduced the vast and adventurous Hyrule of previous installments into what was more or less a bunch of hallways. The only time in Skyward Sword that you were really given a choice about anything (save dialogue options) regarding the main story was which order you learn the song of hero in, which for me, basically wound down to delaying the Tadtones collecting segment of the game as long as possible.

I have very solid reasoning to believe that Link dying in a Zelda game would come across as cheesy and unnecessary, especially if he were to be revived.

It would only come across as cheesy if it was executed in a horribly cliche way. Your assuming that it cannot be done in a way that can be taken seriously and be used as an effective plot device. Also, there is no reason to have him be revived in my opinion, especially if he were to die at the ending of the game (every other link has tied some time after the ending of their games, so this really has no effect on later entries to the series). The main way Nintendo could ensure that a death of Link is executed poorly would be if they were trying to keep the game from receiving a 'T' rating, and instead continuing to focus their target market on young children.

 

[Ventus]

The graphics thing was just fans being unreasonable (and were have as controversial as a death would be). I'm not saying reacting to Link dying would be reasonable, I'm just saying that it would make a bit more sense, since Zelda is a story about the Hero rising to the occasion to save the day. It's the Hero's Journey, not the Hero's Failure (which is why I think OoT Link's canonical death is so incredibly stupid).

Linearity has also been part of the series for quite some time, and the fact that SS actually had a bit more freedom in the gameplay than the majority recent titles makes that last statement irrelevant.

"Has ever produced" being the key phrase. Plus, with as cop-outish as Link's canonical death in the official timeline was, I have very solid reasoning to believe that Link dying in a Zelda game would come across as cheesy and unnecessary, especially if he were to be revived. It would very likely feel like this:

Hero's Journey. Heroes can't die on a journey anymore, guys, it's official. >_>

Bit more freedom in the gameplay? I lol'd. THAT is irrelevant, not my statement.

"Has ever produced" is the key phrase, I agree. The Zelda series spawned the CD-I games and Skyward Sword, did it not? Gave birth to the most disgusting of babies if you ask me. If the Zelda series could live through the aforementioned, it can live with a little death.

I lol'd at the GIF.

 

[JuicieJ]

How? Sure, previous Zelda games featured a fixed dungeon completion order, but Skyward Sword reduced the vast and adventurous Hyrule of previous installments into what was more or less a bunch of hallways. The only time in Skyward Sword that you were really given a choice about anything (save dialogue options) regarding the main story was which order you learn the song of hero in, which for me, basically wound down to delaying the Tadtones collecting segment of the game as long as possible.

The exploration was definitely pretty limited on the surface, but the travel was typically pretty adventurous and had a good balance of being straightforward and open for the player to roam, which is something I don't feel most modern titles can boast, not even The Wind Waker with its Great Sea. (Whenever my article on the transportation overworlds in Zelda is posted, you'll see why.)

It would only come across as cheesy if it was executed in a horribly cliche way. Your assuming that it cannot be done in a way that can be taken seriously and be used as an effective plot device. Also, there is no reason to have him be revived in my opinion, especially if he were to die at the ending of the game (every other link has tied some time after the ending of their games, so this really has no effect on later entries to the series). The main way Nintendo could ensure that a death of Link is executed poorly would be if they were trying to keep the game from receiving a 'T' rating, and instead continuing to focus their target market on young children.

I just don't have the faith in Nintendo to pull of something like Link's death properly. They're not known for superior storytelling and pulling off a character's death is something very difficulty to do. Add in a revival, and you've got a potential disaster for Nintendo. I'm not saying they couldn't pull it off, but they haven't shown me that they can do it as of now.

Hero's Journey. Heroes can't die on a journey anymore, guys, it's official. >_>

The layout of the Hero's Journey makes it pretty difficult to be taken seriously.

Bit more freedom in the gameplay? I lol'd. THAT is irrelevant, not my statement.

I repeat what I said to Pirgah.

"Has ever produced" is the key phrase, I agree. The Zelda series spawned the CD-I games and Skyward Sword, did it not? Gave birth to the most disgusting of babies if you ask me. If the Zelda series could live through the aforementioned, it can live with a little death.

Philips CD-i made those atrocities, and Skyward Sword (as with any Zelda title) isn't ugly. May not be your preference, but it's a very good game that's very well-designed.

This is also not very good logic for saying Link dying would be OK, especially since the way you said it implies it would be bad.

 

[Ventus]

The layout of the Hero's Journey makes it pretty difficult to be taken seriously.

Philips CD-i made those atrocities, and Skyward Sword (as with any Zelda title) isn't ugly. May not be your preference, but it's a very good game that's very well-designed.This is also not very good logic for saying Link dying would be OK, especially since the way you said it implies it would be bad.

Tell me why Zelda must adhere to THJ. Instead of using cliche elements like Zelda has always done, put a twist on things. AKA Irony.

They're still Zelda entries, which the Legend of Zelda series spawned, which makes them a child of LoZ. Same with SS; they're almost in the same category.

What I meant by that last bit was, if Zelda can live through horrible things, it can take something not-so-horrible regardless of it would spawn controversy or not.

 

[Fig]

This is a very interesting thread you have made! I would love to see such a Zelda game like how you described it in the title of this thread. There's only one probably to this awesome game description. Will the game be never ending? If so, then it will definitely take a long time for Nintendo to create such a game, that is, if they consider making such a game. Nonetheless, it would be awesome to see a game like that!

 

[JuicieJ]

Tell me why Zelda must adhere to THJ. Instead of using cliche elements like Zelda has always done, put a twist on things. AKA Irony.

Because THJ is what Zelda is based on?

They're still Zelda entries, which the Legend of Zelda series spawned, which makes them a child of LoZ. Same with SS; they're almost in the same category

Nintendo had nothing to do witht he CD-i's. They didn't even supervise them. They're not official Zelda entires. They're not even an in-law of Zelda.

And, again, SS is not a bad game. Same with any official Zelda title. Any arguments to say any official Zelda game is bad are virtually baseless and/or use the logic of "it sucks because it sucks, lulz".

What I meant by that last bit was, if Zelda can live through horrible things, it can take something not-so-horrible regardless of it would spawn controversy or not.

Again, that's not very good logic. That's just an excuse to throw something in out of nowhere.

 

[Ventus]

Because THJ is what Zelda is based on?

Nintendo had nothing to do witht he CD-i's. They didn't even supervise them. They're not official Zelda entires. They're not even an in-law of Zelda.

And, again, SS is not a bad game. Same with any official Zelda title. Any arguments to say any official Zelda game is bad are virtually baseless and/or use the logic of "it sucks because it sucks, lulz".

Again, that's not very good logic. That's just an excuse to throw something in out of nowhere.

3D Zeldas used to be based on OoT. SS broke that trend. I'll let your mind wander with those two sentences.

They're Zelda entries, non-canon sure, but Zelda entries nonetheless. At the very least, they're third cousins twice removed. I'm sorry, that's just how it is.

I love to disagree with that. lol

Your defending it on the basis of "Zelda is based on X" is just an excuse to keep things stagnant. There's only so much you can do wtih the Hero always winning until fans and newcomers alike just throw the game out the window.