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Poe Hunter's Thougts on the Split Timeline Theory

P

Poe Hunter

Guest
After analyzing the story and the plotline of the classic Zelda games, which tend to be a little bit more
confusing when trying to piece together a timeline (MC, FS,FSA,ALTTP, etc), I have decided on creating a Timeline that places these games in a logical way. I have read many of the other threads on Timeline
Theory from which I have received inspiration.

So first, we begin with Skyward Sword. The presumed founding of Hyrule and the MS.

SS-

Next, Ocarina of Time. In Ocarina of Time, Zelda sends Link to retrieve the Spiritual Stones from
the races in Hyrule. After retrieving the Spiritual Stones, he goes to Hyrule Castle to witness Zelda and her attendant Impa fleeing from Ganondorf. He uses the Ocarina of Time and the Spiritual Stones to openthe Door of Time and claim the Master Sword. After pulling the MS from the pedestal, he gets trapped in the Sacred Realm for 7 years. Thus, Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm utilizing the link to sacred realm created by Link. He awakens and kills and Ganon. Link then gets sent back in time to relive his child-hood, thus creating a split timeline. This is where it gets tricky. Imo, when Link goes back in time, the ToC is duplicated. One version of the ToC remains with him as he travels to the past (the proof is seen on
Link's hand in TP), and the other version, in the Adult Timeline, breaks, and is scattered across Hyrule.
The shards of this ToC will be picked from the Ocean floor by the Link from WW.

......... /
SS-OoT
......... \

Now we have the Adult Timeline (AT) and the Child Timeline (CT). In the AT Ganon comes back and threatens to destroy Hyrule once again. With no Hero of Time to help, the Godesses flood Hyrule, creating the great sea --> WW. In the CT, Link goes intothe lost woods to "look for a friend" but falls in a hole leading to Termina --> MM

........./ WW
SS-OoT
.........\ MM

After the events of MM, Link comes back to Hyrule and stays there for a while. Later, when he is older, he is called by the power of the Triforce to help another world (Labrynna/Holodrum) in need of the Hero of Time--> OoX. When he comes back, Link is an old man. He falls asleep seemingly for a very long time,and has a dream --> Link's Awakening. To clarify, MM/OoX/LA have the same Link. On the AT, the events of PH occur.

.......... / WW/PH--
SS--Oot
.......... \ MM/OoX/LA--

Next, in the CT, the events of TP occur. When Ganondorf is killed (Im just going to imply that the Triforce must be in balance), the ToP leaves Ganon, causing the ToC and the ToW to leave Link and Zelda.TheTriforce pieces return to the Sacred Realm.This way, the events of ALTTP can occur. I believe that the Seal War WAS actually the imprisoning war. Imo, the backstory of ALTTP with the Hylian Knights and the Seven Wise Men, is actually the distorted story of Ocarina of Time. On theAT, Link and Tetra have discovered New Hyrule.
They then settle there, and the MC/FS/FSA story arc occurs. I decided to put the MC/FS/FSA games there because in Spirit Tracks, there obviously is a big advancement in technology, so it would not make sense to put the MC/FS/FSA games after ST.

......... / WW/PH--MC/FS/FSA--
SS--Oot
.......... \ MM/OoX/LA--TP--ALTTP--

So right now, we only have three more games to fit in: Spirit Tracks, LoZ, and AoL. After the MC/FS/FSA games in the AT, Malladus attacks New Hyrule and the Spirits of Good seal him under the ground. This leads up to Spirit Tracks. After ALTTP on the CT, LoZ and AoZ happen.

.......... / WW/PH--MC/FS/FSA--ST
Ss--OoT
...........\ MM/OoX/LA--TP--ALTTP--LoZ/AoL

This is my completed timeline. I can see no flaws right now but if you do, please point them out.
 
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Joined
Jul 1, 2011
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Woman
Well, the Picori had to arrive every hundred years, but in ST, they had been on New Hyrule for only 100 years, so the Minish Cap had to come after Spirit Tracks, or maybe occur on the CT.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
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Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
Ok, a few things:

1. Your placement of the Oracle games and Link's Awakening has a few issues. While Link's Awakening is almost certainly a direct sequel to the Oracle games, it was also said to be a direct sequel to A Link to the Past. Further, at the beginning of the Oracle games, the Triforce is whole, and is in Hyrule - not the Sacred Realm. In the Child Timeline, Ganondorf was captured before he could breach the Sacred Realm and lay hands on the Triforce. When the Sages tried to execute him, the Triforce somehow split itself, with Ganondorf obtaining the Triforce of Power. Thus the Triforce is split on the Child Timeline before it ever leaves the Sacred Realm. Thus the Oracle games - which begin with a completed Triforce in Hyrule - cannot take place where you have them.

At the end of A Link to the Past, Ganon - in possession of the full Triforce - is defeated, and Link obtains the full Triforce. This full Triforce is brought into Hyrule and kept there for safekeeping. This leads directly into the Oracle games, as the Link from ALttP would be trusted enough to investigate the chamber where the Triforce is held (as in the beginning of the Oracle games). Thus, the Oracle games and LA belong in a chain with A Link to the Past, like so: --ALttP/OoX/LA--.

2. There is another issue with your placement of the Four Swords Series on the Adult Timeline. At the end of Wind Waker, Ganon is killed and buried beneath the seas. Because Ganon is present in Four Swords Adventures, the Four Swords series cannot take place on the Adult Timeline. By the same token, Ganondorf is ostensibly dead at the end of Twilight Princess; though there is some debate, it is most likely that he is dead. As such, the Four Swords Series cannot reasonably fit on the Child Timeline at this time either; however - if one is to place the Four Swords Series somewhere, it would more likely belong on the Child Timeline in the original Hyrule, due to the absence of Gerudo in the New Hyrule.

3. A Link to the Past's placement is also problematic. You have it placed on the Child Timeline, which is good, as it avoids the directly impossible placement on the Adult Timeline, as ALttP cannot take place there due to the absence of a hero between OoT's adult ending and the events of Wind Waker, along with Ganon's death. However, it can also not be placed on the Child Timeline, as Ganondorf once again dies in Twilight Princess. Because we are missing a very crucial event to A Link to the Past's story - the Seal/Imprisoning War - we currently cannot place it anywhere without contradiction.

All that said, your basic structure is essentially correct. Here is the timeline that we can say with absolute certainty:

............/--WW/PH--ST
SS--OoT
............\MM--TP

Beyond that, there is a lot of guesswork. Though you are certainly entitled to any theory you so choose, know that anything beyond the above timeline is going to have holes - it is up to you as a theorist to ensure that you leave as few holes as possible. I myself have placed every game on the Timeline, and understand that my Timeline theory is rife with holes. That is the challenge and the fun of Zelda Theory.

Happy Theorycrafting. :)
 
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Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
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Location
Redmond, Washington
"Technology actually was not a major concern for us when we decided to use the train." -Aonuma (There's a better quote out there which generalizes to technology meaning nothing in any Zelda game, which we'll have to find and put on the dev quotes page sometime.) Even so, the spirit tracks were already there before Tetra founded New Hyrule, which was only shortly after WW/PH, so placing the FSS after that solves nothing. Does the FSS take place in New Hyrule or on the Great Sea in your timeline? There's only 100 years between WW and ST, and the gap between MC and FS is likely longer than that, or at least large enough to not fit well.
 
P

Poe Hunter

Guest
So now as I'm looking back on my Timeline I see that the ALttP/OoX/LA games CAN actually occur on the child timeline. What I'm trying to say is that if there was another game set AFTER Twilight Princess, with Ganondorf being revived, only then could the ALttP/OoX/LA games be placed on the Child Timeline. More specifically, placed after the hypothetical sequel(?) to TP. Am I correct?
 

Capitaine

Ray of Silver
Joined
May 16, 2011
It's not a particularly wise practice to place a game somewhere on the presumption that a game that has a chance of never existing at any point in the future will fill in the gaps and plot holes.

Basically, if there is no game currently on the CT to connect to ALttP, maybe it would be best to not place it there until there is.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
So now as I'm looking back on my Timeline I see that the ALttP/OoX/LA games CAN actually occur on the child timeline. What I'm trying to say is that if there was another game set AFTER Twilight Princess, with Ganondorf being revived, only then could the ALttP/OoX/LA games be placed on the Child Timeline. More specifically, placed after the hypothetical sequel(?) to TP. Am I correct?

Absolutely.

Right now, we can assume that sometime after the events of Twilight Princess, the "Seal War" takes place. After the Seal War (which would be in a game that we have not yet been given), then the rest of the timeline can easily fit on the child timeline - ALttP/OoX/LA--LoZ/AoL.

So, hypothetically, a game that depicts the Seal War - let's call it SW - could reconcile the gap there, so the child timeline would look like this: MM--TP--SW--ALttP/OoX/LA--LoZ/AoL. But, since we do not have the Seal War game yet, we cannot 100% accurately place that chain of games on either timeline.
 

Capitaine

Ray of Silver
Joined
May 16, 2011
The thing is, I don't think Nintendo would bother with making a game that has essentially the same storyline as OoT just to bridge a gap between TP and ALttP. You might as well say that the timeline is this:

OoT - TWW/PH - ST
...\MM - TP - OoT3D - ALttP/LA - LoZ/AoL

Or something like that.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
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Location
Redmond, Washington
I'm fairly confident that if OoT and/or FSA is/are not the SW, EAD has given up trying to tell that story. Aonuma has learned that the team needs freedom in developing new games, and telling such a well-defined story such as the SW gives them no freedom at all. That's why Miyamoto upended the tea table during FSA's development. If you need the SW to bridge a gap between TP and subsequent games, then it'll just have to be some standalone event. Don't expect a game to come and fit right in without causing serious problems.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
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Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
I'm fairly confident that if OoT and/or FSA is/are not the SW, EAD has given up trying to tell that story. Aonuma has learned that the team needs freedom in developing new games, and telling such a well-defined story such as the SW gives them no freedom at all. That's why Miyamoto upended the tea table during FSA's development. If you need the SW to bridge a gap between TP and subsequent games, then it'll just have to be some standalone event. Don't expect a game to come and fit right in without causing serious problems.

That's true, but without a game to illustrate the Seal War (which I'm neither for nor against), there is no definite, absolute place that it occurs, with the exception of "right before A Link to the Past". So without some more concrete details on the Seal War (that would come with a game depicting it) we can't place the chain that starts with A Link to the Past with total accuracy.
 
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we don't need complete accuracy, we're theorists, the only thing we need is not inaccuracy. If it makes sense, but doesn't have proof, then it's an average theory. this isn't the ¨zelda absolute facts¨ section, it's zelda THEORY.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
we don't need complete accuracy, we're theorists, the only thing we need is not inaccuracy. If it makes sense, but doesn't have proof, then it's an average theory. this isn't the ¨zelda absolute facts¨ section, it's zelda THEORY.

Theory and fact aren't mutually exclusive. Facts support theories. We should avoid twisting facts to suit theories, or forming theories with no factual basis. If it makes sense but has no proof, then it's a poor theory. If it makes sense, and has SOME evidence to support it, THEN it's an average theory.

We don't know where the Seal War takes place, other than directly before A Link to the Past. As such, we have no indication of where to place the A Link to the Past sequence of games. Saying "but it's a theory" doesn't excuse a lack of fact.
 

Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
Absolutely.

Right now, we can assume that sometime after the events of Twilight Princess, the "Seal War" takes place. After the Seal War (which would be in a game that we have not yet been given), then the rest of the timeline can easily fit on the child timeline - ALttP/OoX/LA--LoZ/AoL.

So, hypothetically, a game that depicts the Seal War - let's call it SW - could reconcile the gap there, so the child timeline would look like this: MM--TP--SW--ALttP/OoX/LA--LoZ/AoL. But, since we do not have the Seal War game yet, we cannot 100% accurately place that chain of games on either timeline.
While we don't have a Seal War game, there are other pieces of evidence pointing to LttP happening somewhen after TP. Like the Master Sword pedestal. In OoT, the pedestal is in the Temple of Time. In TP, centuries later, it's in the plantcovered ruins of the temple, surrounded by wood. In LttP, the remaining ruins have disappeared, and all that is left is the pedestal.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
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Location
Behind you
While we don't have a Seal War game, there are other pieces of evidence pointing to LttP happening somewhen after TP. Like the Master Sword pedestal. In OoT, the pedestal is in the Temple of Time. In TP, centuries later, it's in the plantcovered ruins of the temple, surrounded by wood. In LttP, the remaining ruins have disappeared, and all that is left is the pedestal.

That's a pretty good point actually. It certainly strengthens the argument for it taking place after TP (which is where I personally place it anyway), but without the Seal War it's just not complete. I wish they hadn't scrapped the idea of FSA being the Seal War. It'd make things easier.
 

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