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Please Watch My Timeline Theory and Comment

Adam

Undefeated
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
I made an youtube 4 part video, howarda1000, on my timeline theory. Please look at it if you are serious about zelda timeline. i can have a discussion with the best of them. also, if you're new to the subject feel free to ask me any questions. ill give you information but won't make your decisions for you. Decide for yourself what you agree with. it makes better discussion if you believe what you say.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Okay, I'm watching it, typing as I go. I don't have high hopes when the words "linear" and "tetraforce" come up, but I'll see what I can do.

I'm afraid you have quite a misconception on the imprisoning war. The Master Sword was not created during the war. In fact, the Sages searched for it but couldn't find it, so they were forced to seal Ganondorf instead. OoT was created as a telling of the imprisoning war, and the MS was created before that (in SS). Also, the imprisoning war is not the same thing as the interloper conflict in TP's backstory. The former focuses on sealing Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm, while the latter seals the interlopers in the Twilight Realm. While I'm certain that SS can't be the imprisoning war, I do agree that it is probably the interloper conflict.

MC - Ironically, right when you said "There's no Triforce in MC at all," I just happened to be staring at the Triforce on Link's shield on the cover. The symbol also appears all over Hyrule Market and Castle. I also use games like ST and MM, which also had little-to-no appearance of the Triforce yet certainly occur after OoT as a rebuttal to this argument. Why is its absence evidence in one case but not for all?
Grammar is not important. Remember that this is a Japanese game. Grammar is something that is very much subject to change between translations. Even if it was important, then there would need to be commas in order to indicate what you're looking for. Don't try to bend evidence to fit theories. It works the other way around.

FS - actually, out of all the timelines with MC before OoT that I've seen, I think I've seen FS placed after OoT more frequently than before. FS and FSA state that there was a large gap of time between it and MC, which leaves room for games in-between. Out of curiosity, why do you think FSA has a different Link than FS? Anyway, if Ganon/dorf in FSA is the same as Ganon/dorf in OoT, then I don't think it makes sense for FSA to come before OoT. The King of Hyrule trusts Ganondorf in OoT, and he wouldn't if Ganondorf had already tried to destroy Hyrule.


And now to address the linear timeline arguments...

1. "He wasn't a legend yet."

He told Zelda what happened. That's a legend right there. He fulfilled the prophecy of the Hero of Time. That's a legend. The quote also states that he is done waging his war across time. Done. The legend happened. Aside from that, how would this apparent contradiction support your argument anyway? Even in a linear timeline, the events hadn't happened yet during MM. "How could this be if Zelda hadn't, as a Sage of Time, done something with the timeline?" i.e. split it. I'm not sure I understand how this applies to your argument. Please elaborate.

2. "The Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule."

This quote actually presents a contradiction to your first argument. Link left on the journey after he had defeated Ganondorf.

3. "Wouldn't the moon have destroyed the world during Wind Waker?"

No. The moon would only have destroyed Clock Town. Remember, the residents took shelter at Lon Lon Ranch. Termina is also in a different universe, so it wouldn't affect Hyrule even if the whole universe was destroyed (unless some effects seeped in through portals). And this is all assuming that the split in the Hyrule-universe's timeline also created a split in the Termina-universe.

4. "Zelda has the Ocarina of Time as a child."

Of course she does. She hadn't given it to Link yet.
Zelda has the OoT/ Zelda gives Link the OoT - Link goes to the future - Link returns the OoT.
\ Zelda gives Link the OoT - Link goes to Termina

It works just fine.

4a. "The Door of Time is already open. So, we're after the part where we get the Ocarina of Time."

Think about that in a linear perspective too. The Door of Time is open, Link has the Ocarina of Time. Then Zelda gives Link the Ocarina of Time? But he already has it...
This is actually a major point of debate even for many splittists as well. The whole situation's full of contradictions - the main one being the fact that the Door of Time is open, yet Zelda's still in the courtyard. One of these must not be meant to be taken into consideration.

5. Merge Theory

How is this any more believable than a split?

6. Legend of the Fairy

Good job on finding this! I often have to point it out to linearists to try to support their theory for them, lol. My answer to this is what I mentioned earlier about the Termina-universe not being affected by the Hyurle-universe split.






That's all I have time for at the moment. (It's quite detailed - good job. Not many linearists can boast 6+ reasons for denying the split.)
I'll leave you with a few quotes...

Question: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Eiji Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?

Eiji Aonuma: From the end.

Shigeru Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...

Eiji Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

Shigeru Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.
Nintendo Dream: When does Twilight Princess take place?

Eiji Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

Nintendo Dream: And the Wind Waker?

Eiji Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Hello Adam, I hope I can help improve your timeline.

So you know, I have only watched the first part of your timeline due to time constraints.

Firstly: I think Locke has given enough arguments for the existence of the Split, so I don't think that I need to do it too.

The Imprisoning War

We can categorize the AlttP back story into three pieces

1. The Triforce rests in the Golden Land (Sacred Realm), but knowledge of it is forgotten.
2. Ganondorf rediscovers the SR and a great war follows.
3. The Sages seal Ganon when he tries to conque Hyrule, the Seal War.

There needs to be a lot of time between #1 and #2 and #3, in order for the general knowledge of the SR to be forgotten. Since the Master Sword, which as Locke pointed out, was forged before the SW, seals the entrance to the SR in OoT. Thus, the Interloper War needs to take place before OoT, since it took place a long time before Ganondorf's execution in TP. Thus, the Interlopers need to be among the few who knew of the location of the SR, which is not the same as the knowledge of its existence. Thus, the SW needs to take place during or after OoT.

TMC: The exact quotation is:

"The tiny Picori appeared from the sky, bringing the hero of men a sword and a golden light".

The Minish came from the sky and gave the sword and the light to the HoM. The image also shows that he receives the items, so regardless of the exact placement of the comma can we deduce that the Hero of Men is from the ground while the objects are from the sky.

The Hyrule of TMC seems quite unified to me, what do you think about that. Because, if it is unified, it can't go before OoT.

FSA: How did Ganon get out of the Four Sword and become Ganondorf again?
The Hyrule of FSA does at least contain Gorons living equally autonomous, or perhaps even less, than the Gorons of OoT, which would be strange if FSA took place before OoT.

Also, what do you think of the different back stories of OoT and FSA Ganondorf. OoT Ganondorf is revered and their king, while FSA Ganondorf is "hated" and their guardian.

Good Luck!

/Blue Window
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
Now, I am going to watch it; but before I comment on it I want to advise you to embed or at least post a hyperlink to the video. It makes things easier.
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Hello Adam! It was interesting to watch your four-part video timeline, and here are my comments. Some might have been said before, but anyway.

The Minish Cap

The way I gather are the absence of the Triforce (well, the Triforce is depicted in several palces in the game, though) and the absence of Ganon not per definition timeline indicators, as for example evidenced by LA and ST.

The useage of the sentence "The legend will continue" as evidence that all other games follow TMC seems strange when SS is put before TMC. But you might have another opinion.

I think that it's clear in the game that the Minish brought the Light Force and the Picori Blade to the Hero of Men, which is supported by the fact that he is kneeling below the Sword and the Light Force.

In TMC, FS and FSA, it seems like Hyrule is a united kingdom. That doesn't make much sense if they take place before OoT, since the land was only united some 7 or 8 years prior to the start of the game. What do you think of that?

I didn't catch how Ganon got out of the FS before OoT. Would you like to elaborate on that?

The Imprisoning War.

(The Master Sword was actually forged before the Imprisoning War, that was one of the mistranslations that were corrected in the GBA re-make.)

Let's take a look at the quotes regarding the IW and the AlttP BS.

(Lanayru's story in TP)
For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body… But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued… Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared. Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. It was then that the goddesses ordered us three light spirits to intervene. We sealed away the great magic those individuals had mastered.

This allows us to construct this timeline

The word of the SR spreads --- Great battle --- Interlopers are sealed

Moreover, the Interlopers tried to "establish dominion of the Sacred Realm", but the Light Spirits intervened and sealed away the Fused Shadows and eventually the Interlopers themselves, which suggests that they didn't gain access to the Triforce, which in turn makes it hard for the Interloper Conflict to be the IW. Also, if the Interlopers was sealed in the Twilight Realm, how could Ganondorf be one of them?

Let's go on with the IW.

(From AlttP)
Only a select few knew of its location, but at some point that knowledge was lost... The person who rediscovered the Golden Land was Ganondorf the evil thief.

This is interesting. This quote tells us that there was originally other people than Ganondorf who knew about the location of the SR. Since the Interlopers knew about it, their sealing needs to take place before Ganondorf enters the SR.

The word of the SR spreads --- Great battle --- Interlopers are sealed --- Knowledge is lost --- Ganondrof rediscovers the SR --- IW --- AlttP

The main events of AlttP need to succeed an event in which Ganondorf can rediscover the SR and get sealed. The only times we know he has done this are OoT perhaps FSA.
The problem with OoT being the IW is mainly that the Triforce is not complete in the end and the main problem with FSA is that Ganon doesn't find the Triforce at all.
The most logical conclusion, in my view, is that the IW is a separate event. I believe that it takes place after FSA, with FSA Ganon breaking out of the FS and gathering a band of thieves and eventually finding the location of the SR, but that is another theory. ;)

Tetraforce

The Triforce is said to be complete when three pieces are united, which indicates that there are only three pieces. There was also three goddesses and they left one piece each. We can also look at the absence of any fourth piece to reinforce this view.

I believe that the general counter-argument against the "Four Light Sprits = Four Goddesses"-theory is that neither Faron nor Ordona has the name of a goddess in their proper names, whereas the two combined almost makes up the name FAR+OR(E).

ElDIN
LaNAYRU
FARON
ORDONA

The "inverted triangle" from TMC is actually the Light Force (which does look very similar to a Triforce piece), but whose relationship to the Triforce is unknown. It can have a connection to the Triforce, though.

The Master Sword and the Four Sword

Let's talk about the "Palace of the Four Sword". In the PotFS we can find the Four Sword, and since Link already has the Master Sword, the swords can't consequently be the same. If the PotFS is canon, then the two swords are separate.
Moreover, the Master Sword was not created by the Minish, it was actually created by the Sages, which indicates that they are not the same swords.

The Split Timeline

You have probably seen this quote before, but:

Question: When does Twilight Princess take place?
Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.
Question: And the Wind Waker?
Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

The Ocarina of Time:

According to the Split Timeline theory, there are of course one Ocarina of Time on each timeline.
AT: Zelda gives Link the Ocarina --- Link defeats Ganon --- Link and Zelda are on a cloud, Link gives the OoT back and goes back in time

The exact moment Link returns to is subejct to much debate, but here is my view

CT: Link is brought back to the moment before the drew the MS --- Link goes to Zelda --- Link gives her the Ocarina --- Zelda gives him the Ocarina --- Link goes to Termina

The Moon and the AT

I can see two possible solutions to this problem:
1) Termina has its own timeline and is not affected by the split.
2) Skull Kid never gets Majora's Mask on the AT, consequently eliminating the problem.

Wind Waker

This is the re-translation of the King of Red Lion's speech. Translated by Archer on Zelda Legends (second line is NoA, first is re-translation)

Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time?
Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time?

Long ago, the Hero of Time defeated Ganon and restored peace to Hyrule. He had a Triforce dwelling in him just like Zelda.
Once, long ago, he defeated Ganon and brought peace to the Kingdom of Hyrule... A piece of the Triforce was given to the Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as Zelda kept hers.

It was called the Triforce of Courage. It is said that when the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule, he was separated from the source of being a hero and the Triforce of Courage turned into 8 fragments and scattered throughout the land.
That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land.

(My emphasis)

Here we can see that it's clear that when the HoT left the AT, the ToC split. This is the reason why there were no hero to stop Ganondorf: Link didn't exist on the AT(!). Thus, WW takes place on a different timeline than the one the HoT went to, which we know is the one that leads to MM.

Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link

I don't think we have any evidence that either Old Hyrule was unflooded or that any Hyrulian King got the Triforce, which means that the placement of LoZ/AoL becomes a bit problematic.

A Link to the Past

We know that the Triforce is in the North Castle at the end of AoL, not in the SR, as it is in the beginning of AlttP, which makes the Triforce progression between AoL and AlttP a bit strange. Moreover, Ganon is dead in AoL, whereas he is sealed in the SR in AlttP, which makes the Ganon progression a bit strange, too.
Another question: Woudl you like to explain how can the old landmarks of Old Hyrule have remained more or less the same even though the land has been flooded twice (before WW and in WW)?

All this makes me doubt that LoZ/AoL is a prequel to AlttP.

Twilight Princess

Firstly, we know that TP is offcially a sequel to MM. But nevertheless:

Let's just take a look at Ganondorf's back story.

His name is… Ganondorf. He was the leader of a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule in the hopes of establishing dominion over the Sacred Realm. He was known as a demon thief, an evil-magic wielder renowned for his ruthlessness…

Ganondorf invaded Hyrule to gain access to the SR. But, how can that work if he was in the SR, as you suggested? Also, Ganondorf was not known as the "Great King of Darkness", but as a "demon thief" who commanded a band of thieves, not an army of darkness. I can not see how TP Ganondorf can have experienced LoZ, AoL, AlttP and OoX. But, please, explain that if you want to.

I hope that my comments can help improve your timeline.

Good Luck!

/Blue Window
 

Adam

Undefeated
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
about the MC games (assuming you agree that MC FS and FSA belong near or next to each other) i will have to reconsider my position on how to relate to other games and like you mentioned hyrule being unified and stuff like that. i'll need to work on a stronger case for that.

the imprisoning war. i believe i most definitely said that SS will be the imprisoning war, so i'm unsure what you are trying to point out here. (i still believe that its the IW or at least the IW is right after SS)
The word of the SR spreads --- Great battle --- Interlopers are sealed --- Knowledge is lost --- Ganondrof rediscovers the SR --- IW --- AlttP
so i agree with all these except i had ALttP near the end of my timeline (which doesn't cause a problem because it doesn't have to be a direct backstory, and my timeline explains aghanim being in two games)

the tetraforce part of my video isn't totally my opinion, i was just trying to present the case for it. i don't particularly like the 4th goddess theory however i really like the trinity bond between the pieces alot better and it makes me happy to see the huge goddess statue in Skyloft and hear talk about The Goddess (being singular) from trailers and such. but thanks for now giving me a reason to not approve of the 4th goddess.

Master sword... ah i see. well done. i shall rethink this as well. and in saying the minish created the minish sword, i take you back to the Kokiri/koroks/Kikwi(maybe, but probably not) that may just be incarnations of the same people, it's how the world around them perceives them at the current time. they are just manifestations and i think i've read this somewhere however i would not have direct proof to back this up. however i would say that Termina is meant to be a parallel to Hyrule and the moon children were considered at the time by fandom to be termina's version of the kokiri. so maybe the minish also were manifestations, and i think this theory would only work for mysterious kokiris and no other tribe.

i agree with you about when link returns to his child timeline, but having a merged timeline doesn't seem to create any problems with my timeline so far. having ganondorf sealed and link gets his childhood back in the same timeline. link is the hero of time and he never would have left hyrule to let ganon go forward with his plans, meaning he would not go back in time and leave the adult timeline in disarray causing the world to be flooded (i believe this is what 'splitists' say happened) however when link goes to termina he is unaware that ganon breaks out of the Sacred realm where he was sealed by the OoT sages, this is the only reason i can say Link wasn't there, because he just didn't know.

about the moon, i am completely against the moon not wiping out the adult timeline. there is a very important different between alternate realities and parallel dimensions/universes and i think the game manual says dimensions. alternate realities are what The Doc describes in Back to the Future where parallel dimensions are much more discussed in like Stargate where the universes ran along side each other meaning the moon wouldve crashed in termina because the moon was destined to crash in termina.

the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule
clearly i just don't interpret that the same way you do. i just see it as Link traveled back in time with zelda's help and left hyrule. just like it said. no split in time. when he left hyrule to termina, the triforce of courage split because Link didn't die, AND because Link's task wasn't complete so the triforce didn't leave him willingly. Link left hyrule to search for his friend, but the triforce had to stay with Hyrule to watch over ganon/dorf to make sure he stayed sealed (assuming the pieces have some sort of consciousness, or their strict destiny is to stay with hyrule and they can't control this (plays into my tetraforce theory about a trinity bond between them))

I don't think we have any evidence that either Old Hyrule was unflooded
in a linear timeline, ST would be this evidence since i believe New Hyrule in this game could easily be like Maze island. and as i said ganon found a way about of his stone seal as the waters receded allowing him to gain access to the triforce that was left at the castle underwater however (like shiek says) his heart was aligned with power so he got one piece, the other fled to princess zelda and courage was left in north castle hidden away by the King and Impa perhaps. so LoZ/AoL link defeats ganon with the silver arrow and then finds the final piece of the triforice. this theory is not out of reach. at the end of AoL the triforce is whole again and as i talked about with the 'essence of the triforce' it returned to where it was meant to be (the Scared Realm) after link made his wish to wake up the sleeping zelda.

ALttP i talked about how i viewed the silver arrows. my view of the silver arrows is extremely important to how my theory builds around ganon/dorf. the silver arrows like i said "send him back to square one" meaning since he had messed with fate by finding the triforce waaay back in the day, he didn't die he just had to find a way to be revived (his henchman/horcrux maybe? aghanim that he left behind between LoZ/AoL) and the world wasn't flooded twice, just once. where did you get twice?? where the waters rush in at the end?? just because they were being held back by the King's 'will' i guess. not a second flooding.

Also, Ganondorf was not known as the "Great King of Darkness", but as a "demon thief" who commanded a band of thieves, not an army of darkness.
the sages from TP were descendents of OoT sages, and from my timeline many centuries would have passed. even enough for ganon to have been almost forgotten (as stated in ALttP backstory, that time had all but forgotten the imprisoning war, another reason why i see ALttP as far far away from when its backstory occurred)

wow i need friends like you who battle me back with as much wit as i throw at them haha, i love discussing zelda timeline because i believe that even Miyamoto would make so many people upset if he released his timeline theory because let's face it, unless miyamoto is a mastermind that had all this written down before LoZ (which would be impossible because several of these games started as side projects without him even knowing, LA for example) then there's no way to have one cohesive official timeline. unless fandom can come to an agreement. and it'll be tough to convince me of a split timeline (even split timeline theorists are starting to merge it at OoX). now i hope you understand that to break down a theory you must break it down from within itself. you seemed to argue against some points i made because you interpreted/viewed it another way. there are some points in which i must build a stronger case but there was nothing to make me scrap my theory. if you wish to change my mind, then use my own theory against me as this is how formal logic works. but if you just wish to discuss and help me build more support for my own ideas then please continue! this was helpful. thanks!
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
I have read your answer, and I have written some more ideas. Hope these will help you more.

the imprisoning war. i believe i most definitely said that SS will be the imprisoning war, so i'm unsure what you are trying to point out here. (i still believe that its the IW or at least the IW is right after SS)

Since we don't know SS'ss story, I was trying to use the evidence we have today to find a plausible placement for the IW. Would you like to show me counter-evidence for the IW not taking place long after the Interloper Conflict?

Master sword... ah i see. well done. i shall rethink this as well. and in saying the minish created the minish sword, i take you back to the Kokiri/koroks/Kikwi(maybe, but probably not) that may just be incarnations of the same people, it's how the world around them perceives them at the current time. they are just manifestations and i think i've read this somewhere however i would not have direct proof to back this up. however i would say that Termina is meant to be a parallel to Hyrule and the moon children were considered at the time by fandom to be termina's version of the kokiri. so maybe the minish also were manifestations, and i think this theory would only work for mysterious kokiris and no other tribe.

Thanks! Any way: Do you have any proof that the Minish actually are a different form of the Kokiri?

i agree with you about when link returns to his child timeline, but having a merged timeline doesn't seem to create any problems with my timeline so far. having ganondorf sealed and link gets his childhood back in the same timeline. link is the hero of time and he never would have left hyrule to let ganon go forward with his plans, meaning he would not go back in time and leave the adult timeline in disarray causing the world to be flooded (i believe this is what 'splitists' say happened) however when link goes to termina he is unaware that ganon breaks out of the Sacred realm where he was sealed by the OoT sages, this is the only reason i can say Link wasn't there, because he just didn't know.

I can not talk for all Splitists, but I see no reason that they would think otherwise: Zelda chose to send Link back to relive his childhood after they had defeated Ganondorf. They couldn't know that Ganondorf would break the seal.

about the moon, i am completely against the moon not wiping out the adult timeline. there is a very important different between alternate realities and parallel dimensions/universes and i think the game manual says dimensions. alternate realities are what The Doc describes in Back to the Future where parallel dimensions are much more discussed in like Stargate where the universes ran along side each other meaning the moon wouldve crashed in termina because the moon was destined to crash in termina.

Well, no one knows the exact nature of Termina, so I don't consider it good evidence for any side.

clearly i just don't interpret that the same way you do. i just see it as Link traveled back in time with zelda's help and left hyrule. just like it said. no split in time. when he left hyrule to termina, the triforce of courage split because Link didn't die, AND because Link's task wasn't complete so the triforce didn't leave him willingly. Link left hyrule to search for his friend, but the triforce had to stay with Hyrule to watch over ganon/dorf to make sure he stayed sealed (assuming the pieces have some sort of consciousness, or their strict destiny is to stay with hyrule and they can't control this (plays into my tetraforce theory about a trinity bond between them))

Thank you, Link... Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm! Thus, peace will once again reign in this world...for a time. (...) When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye... Now, go home, Link. Regain your lost time! Home… where you are supposed to be... the way you are supposed to be... Thank you... Link... Good-bye....

I think that Zelda is pretty clear that Link's quest is over. Otherwise, why would she send him back if she knew that Ganondorf would return any minute?

What do you think of the credtis of OoT? First we see the people celebrating Ganondorf's defeat, and we see the Sages flying around, which allows us to conclude that it is the AT. Then we see little Link coming to his own time, of course the CT. How can both those events take place? If I understand your theories correctly would there not be any reason to celebrate seven years later, because Ganondorf would have been sealed for a long time.

How could the King of Red Lion's line be of any use if Link travelled back in time and appeared on a new merged timeline? Nevertheless, how can Ganondorf be sealed if he was never defeated? For, Link had not defeated Ganondorf in the time he returned to. If the timeline would merge, which timeline's history would the new one take? What I don't understand is why Link don't defeat Ganondorf when he comes back from Termina?

in a linear timeline, ST would be this evidence since i believe New Hyrule in this game could easily be like Maze island. and as i said ganon found a way about of his stone seal as the waters receded allowing him to gain access to the triforce that was left at the castle underwater however (like shiek says) his heart was aligned with power so he got one piece, the other fled to princess zelda and courage was left in north castle hidden away by the King and Impa perhaps. so LoZ/AoL link defeats ganon with the silver arrow and then finds the final piece of the triforice. this theory is not out of reach. at the end of AoL the triforce is whole again and as i talked about with the 'essence of the triforce' it returned to where it was meant to be (the Scared Realm) after link made his wish to wake up the sleeping zelda.

Spirit Tracks Hyrule being a landmass is not evidence that the GDT's plan succeeded. Since we have no evidence that Old Hyrule came back after WW, I don't see how it's possible to put games like AlttP and TP there.

PGC: I don't want to get too far into territory you can't talk about, but do you think with the new Zelda with the new style and vastly better graphics on the GameCube, do you think there's going to be an issue of E or T?

Bihldorff: I don't think there's any question it'll get a T personally. We'll probably have to look at it and have a long discussion with the ESRB. But that is one of their bigger issues, that you can get away with, well, Wind Waker has beautiful graphics but it looks a lot like a cartoon, but the more realistic you get, the more you're going to get [in terms of ratings]. From what we've seen, I don't think there's any question that...

Trinen: We can't talk about what we've seen (laughs)

Bihldorff: I mean, recently we just recently met with the ESRB and talked about Ocarina of Time, and that had some dicey moments, whether or not it was going to get an E, you know, the original one where Ganondorf pukes out all that blood at the end, and then you end up ramming your sword down the pig's throat, you know, when he transforms, and it's not exactly non-violent, and if you imagine a scene like that with vastly improved realistic graphics, I think that'd probably be in the T range.

Trinen: We're really good about working with them too, like, the way submission works, you're basically supposed to send them a video tape of basically the most violent or reprehensible content in the game, and we let them know about the scene in the end where you finally defeat Ganondorf.

Bihldorff: Late, though. We had to tack that on...

Trinen: Did we? I thought we did that at the same time.

Bihldorff: We did an early submission on that, and then we saw that, and were like, "whoa...!"

Trinen: And we saw that and thought that was pretty intense there, and so we showed that to them, and they looked at that and took it into consideration based on the look of the game and how much of the game that represents in terms of the overall gameplay.

Bihldorff: There was no blood, and he turned to stone, and died. They took all that into account.

Trinen: You're not supposed to... you gave the whole thing away, Nate! (laughs)

PGC: Okay, do you guys have anything you want to say in closing?

Trinen: (whispers) Zelda rocks!

Ganondorf died in WW, so he can't come back after it. Also, we don't know what happened to the Triforce after WW.

ALttP i talked about how i viewed the silver arrows. my view of the silver arrows is extremely important to how my theory builds around ganon/dorf. the silver arrows like i said "send him back to square one" meaning since he had messed with fate by finding the triforce waaay back in the day, he didn't die he just had to find a way to be revived (his henchman/horcrux maybe? aghanim that he left behind between LoZ/AoL) and the world wasn't flooded twice, just once. where did you get twice?? where the waters rush in at the end?? just because they were being held back by the King's 'will' i guess. not a second flooding.

You are of course free to have whatever theory you like, but in-game evidence clearly says that Ganon has been destroyed after he has been defteated by the Silver Arrows.

But now, you have totally destroyed Ganon. His Dark World will vanish.

And in AoL, we know he is dead.

Wash away this ancient land of Hyrule! Let a ray of hope shine on the future of the world!!!

Hyrule was first flooded by Hyrule and then after the King wished for the Triforce to destroy the land.

the sages from TP were descendents of OoT sages, and from my timeline many centuries would have passed. even enough for ganon to have been almost forgotten (as stated in ALttP backstory, that time had all but forgotten the imprisoning war, another reason why i see ALttP as far far away from when its backstory occurred)

We don't know that. They are only referred to as "Ancient Sages"

At the command of the goddesses, we sages have guarded the Mirror of Twilight since ancient times.

What are your opinion on developer quotes? Aonuma has clearly said that there is a split timeline.

Neverhteless, I hope this might help you.

/Blue Window
 

Adam

Undefeated
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
i will look at what you said get back to you on it locke, but the first thing will say is that i won't take the 'official' statements for any credit whatsoever. the fun and excitement about zelda timeline is about finding out how to support your own theory (as it is with any scientific discovery scenario) and not to jump on a bandwagon (which you clearly did not) but i think way too many people say.. 'oh aonuma said its a split, so its split. linearists are dumb' that's just faulty logic and gives me no reason to discuss with those people, agree? but i will definitely look over what you said!!

clearly i'm going to have to take time to dissect every sentence and every morsel of every game. but nevertheless, i shall return!!! be it a year or be it more, i shall return! lol thanks blue window and locke for helping me out! i'll go build a stronger case for everything and see what i come up with
 
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