• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Placing Loz/Aol on the Timeline

Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
Norway
So I've been trying to fit loz/Aol on the timeline for quite some time, and here is what I found​

FACT: Ganon is present in loz
FACT: Ganon is dead in Aol
FACT: Ganon can be revived using links blood
FACT: AoL is the first time the triforce of courage is used since the first princess zelda
FACT: the triforce of courage is used in OOT, TP and WW​
Legend of Zelda 2_009.jpg
My first theory was that AoL happened on the Adult timeline, with Oot Zelda being the first Zelda, that was because the triforce of courage was used in Oot and WW so the story had to be in between the two, but, in the backstory of WW, there are told about the hero who saved hyrule from Ganon using timetraveling, and then no hero returning, so loz/Aol can not fit in here because if link kills ganon in loz, there will be no need to flood Hyrule
My next guess was on the child-timeline, still guessing that Zelda from Oot was the first Zelda, taking place before TP because the triforce of courage is present in both Oot and TP, but this time around, the BS of TP tells that Ganondorf was attempted to be killed, but instead got sealed in the twilight realm. There would be no need to excecute ganondorf if he was already killed by loz/Aol link.
My third, and IMO best guess was that loz/Aol took place before Oot, ganon was killed in loz, the triforce of courage was regained in Aol.
the next part is wild guessing, but here goes nothing; After regaining the whole triforce to the royal family, the triforce was placed in the sacred realm, and the temple of time and door of time was built to protect it. Later on, link was killed by the evil forces of ganon, and his blood was spread on the ashes, Ganon, who no longer had the triforce of power, was reborn as a gerudo, and took the name ganondorf.​

The "link being killed, ganon revived" thing could be used on both sides of the timeline, but then the events of Oot would have to happen twice on both timelines​

I am sure that there are thousand of flaws to this theory, but placing loz/Aol before Oot felt like the least contradicting thing to do.​

discuss!​
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
That is probably the best solution given the facts you presented. I really like how you organized your argument and found counterevidence for your initial placements.

But I'd like to propose another fact: In 1998 the timeline was OoT-LttP-LoZ/AoL.
This is confirmed by Miyamoto, in-game evidence, and the back of LttP's box combined with another developer saying OoT is LttP's backstory.
This contradicts your fourth fact. If the Zelda in AoL's BS is the first Zelda (OoT or earlier), then the ToC was used in LttP. I think it's safe to say that the notion of the sleeping Zelda being the first of that name was retconned with OoT, or even as early as LttP.

With this in mind, you can avoid the "wild guessing" and place them after WW or TP.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
Norway
But I'd like to propose another fact: In 1998 the timeline was OoT-LttP-LoZ/AoL.
This is confirmed by Miyamoto, in-game evidence, and the back of LttP's box combined with another developer saying OoT is LttP's backstory.

Miyamoto also said that Alttp was the sequel to AoL ("the Miyamoto order"), I've also heard that the box thing could be a mis-transaltion, but don't quote me on that. I'm not trying to say that Alttp can't possibly be the prequel of zelda 1, but that developers quotes can contradict eachother.

This contradicts your fourth fact. If the Zelda in AoL's BS is the first Zelda (OoT or earlier), then the ToC was used in LttP. I think it's safe to say that the notion of the sleeping Zelda being the first of that name was retconned with OoT, or even as early as LttP.

What if the first 2 games happen before Oot, and Alltp happening much later on either side of the timeline, can you tell me what's contradicting that expect for self-contradicting and old developer quotes. I feel it's kind of wrong to disregard a games back story completely when placing it in the timeline, and I also think that the games themself should be stronger evidence than developer quotes.

sorry if I sound rude :?
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
No matter what "evidence" you provide, the original two games go after A Link to the Past (and on the "child timeline") due to previous quotes and such. (And other obvious facts, like Ganon. He was killed as Ganondorf and sealed at the bottom of the Great Sea. There's no coming back for him. Plus, they were made before the "adult timeline" even existed.) Great comments and arguments, but they're all shot down with facts from the past.
 

Hylian Knight

Green Armored Menace
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Florida
Could someone explain to me how OoT comes before AlttP, I always thought OoT was after AlttP because the sages built the Temple of Time to protect the Master Sword from evil ones.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Could someone explain to me how OoT comes before AlttP, I always thought OoT was after AlttP because the sages built the Temple of Time to protect the Master Sword from evil ones.

Well, it's directly quoted from Nintendo. And, actually, it's not the Master Sword they're protecting. It's the Sacred Realm, and namely the Triforce. And, we also know from Twilight Princess that the Sacred Grove is the Temple of Time, just dismantled. So, yeah, there's more (Locke could tell you, he's good at that), but I don't want to get into it, because that's really all the evidence needed.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Are you suggesting that TP happens between OoT and AlttP because that just doesn't make much sense to me.

Yes, Twilight Princess does take place in between Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past. I mean, we know for sure it's a sequel to Ocarina of Time, and all evidence and common logic points to A Link to the Past following it. I don't know why you can't see this. Please tell me so I can explain this.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Miyamoto also said that Alttp was the sequel to AoL ("the Miyamoto order"), I've also heard that the box thing could be a mis-transaltion, but don't quote me on that. I'm not trying to say that Alttp can't possibly be the prequel of zelda 1, but that developers quotes can contradict eachother.
Yes, developer quotes can contradict each other, especially ones involving Miyamoto, which is why I also mentioned in-game evidence and other quotes. (here's a description of the Miyamoto order, and how he corrected himself a couple months later)
(You don't sound rude. You're just disagreeing!)

Could someone explain to me how OoT comes before AlttP, I always thought OoT was after AlttP because the sages built the Temple of Time to protect the Master Sword from evil ones.
The Sages built the Temple of Time to protect the Sacred Realm, and by extension the Triforce. The Master Sword was used as the final key (this is why drawing the MS in WW releases Ganon's mazoku). OoT comes before LttP because it is/was supposed to tell its backstory. Ganon takes the Triforce and is sealed in the SR, and breaks out in LttP. Ganon was born in OoT, so games he appears in must happen after that.

There are also small bits of evidence, like this quote from LttP:
Maiden in Dark Palace said:
Then, using we seven maidens who inherit the power of the Seven Sages as the key, he broke the seal...
If you look at the developer quotes page you can see that LttP was never intended to go before OoT.

It can't go between OoT and TP either because both Ganon and the Triforce appear in LttP, while both were sealed in the Twilight Realm shortly after the CT ending of OoT and remained there until TP.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
Norway
Yes, developer quotes can contradict each other, especially ones involving Miyamoto, which is why I also mentioned in-game evidence and other quotes. (here's a description of the Miyamoto order, and how he corrected himself a couple months later)

The link you posted also concludes that Miyamoto had no clue on how the timeline went, making developers quotes even more unreliable, I dont doubt that the order was intended to be Oot/MM->Alttp/LA->Loz/Aol when the games were first released, but a lot has changed since then, also, it's been a while since I last played Alltp and Oot, so could you please come with some examples of the in-game evidence.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Well, first you have the entire Seal War backstory closely mirroring OoT's story despite a few inconsistencies.
Next, there's this quote from one of the maidens:
But the blood of the Hylia has
become thin over time. We who
carry the blood of the seven
wise men do not possess strong
power any more, either.
("wise men" = "sages") OoT had Sages, LttP tells of ancient Sages.
The thinning of the Hylian blood is also backed up several more times:
Long ago, a prosperous people
known as the Hylia inhabited
this land...
Legends tell of many treasures
that the Hylia hid throughout
the land...
The Master Sword, a mighty
blade forged against those
with evil hearts, is one of
them.
You found the Book of Mudora!
You can use it to read the
ancient language of the Hylia!
OoT had Hylians, and they're ancient and legendary in LttP.


As for evidence for LttP->LoZ/AoL, you can look at the state of the Triforce. In LttP, it starts in the SR and ends in the possession of the royal family. In LoZ/AoL's BS, it starts in the possession of the RF, the ToC is then hidden, and much later the ToP stolen and the ToW split, then all collected and back in the hands of the royal family.
Ganon was born during the SW, so LoZ/AoL must come after that (although there is an unexplained resurrection involved). I already mentioned the box (although that's original intent; the in-game evidence still precludes a LoZ/AoL->LttP placement).
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
Norway
As for evidence for LttP->LoZ/AoL, you can look at the state of the Triforce. In LttP, it starts in the SR and ends in the possession of the royal family

Not neccesary, it could very well have splitted when link touched it, as his heart is mostly courage

In LoZ/AoL's BS, it starts in the possession of the RF, the ToC is then hidden, and much later the ToP stolen and the ToW split, then all collected and back in the hands of the royal family.

This could also work when placing it before oot, since the triforce is whole in the sacred realm at the start of oot, and the temple of time/door of time is built to protect it, and the sacred realm is reffered to by zelda as a secret of the royal family, implying that the royal family has had something to do with earlier.


Ganon was born during the SW, so LoZ/AoL must come after that (although there is an unexplained resurrection involved). I already mentioned the box (although that's original intent; the in-game evidence still precludes a LoZ/AoL->LttP placement).

What about if Ganon the beast steals the triforce in loz, it is reclaimed expect for the triforce of courage, link gets the triforce of courage, to prevent the triforce from being stolen again, it is moved to the sacred realm, and the temple of time is built to protect it, link gets killed by ganons minions and his blood gets spread on ganons ashes, ganon is rescurrected, but because he doesn't have the triforce of power, he is reborn as the gerudo king Ganondorf, he then proposes a peace treaty to the king of hyrule so that he can steal the triforce again, and Oot happens, then Alttp happen later on either side of the timeline.

there are some in game evidence to back this up, the already mentioned sacred realm and the triforce being reffered to by zelda as a secret of the royal family. Even though it's supposed to be a secret, Ganon/dorf knows about it, implying that he has had something to do with it earlier.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
Norway
well, Ganondorf gets control of hyrule in Oot, still, the triforce splits. I don't think it's been stated that the wish does not come true if the heart is unbalanced, but I'm not sure
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom