PH, ST and SW, World Unlocking and the Environments

[TimeforTavel]

Hello all!

I have not seen anyone posting about this, but I want to complain a bit about the world unlocking system in the recent three Zelda games.

In the Legend of Zelda, you had the whole world before you, you could go anywhere you wanted, same in Zelda II and A Link to the Past. In Ocarina of Time you got most of the world from the beginning, sometimes you would unlock a new village or something. In the Wind Waker you got the whole sea to explore at the beginning. In Twilight Princess you had the whole world after three temples, then you would sometimes unlock an extra village or region parts like in Ocarina of Time. But then...

In Phantom Hourglass you got one quarter of the sea chart, and one quarter of the world. Finish the first temple, get the second quarter. Finish the second temple, get the third quarter, etc. In Spirit Tracks it's the same story. You just literally unlock a quarter of the world by collecting some tablet. It's even worse in Spirit Tracks because the quarters actually have seperate themes! You got the grass world, the snow world, the lava world and the water world. 4 worlds, 4 themes, it's more like Super Mario than the Legend of Zelda. In Skyward Sword it's the same story. Three pieces of land, all unlocked by collecting a tablet, and each area has an entirely unique theme.

What's nice about games like Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time is that the world blends so well, there's a certain fitting flow in the world. You don't just walk in a forest cave and BAM, on the other side there's the lava world. It slowly blends, you slowly climb a mountain, the amount of fire and lava raises the closer you get to the top.

I don't want those one themed huge land sections again, I want a world like Twilight Princess and Ocarina of time where there is a flow in the world, also I want the world unlocking to be more realistic. In Ocarina of Time you went to Zora's Domain to ask them for their sapphire. You played Zelda's Lullaby and you got in Zora's Domain, it's a nice way to get introduced to a new area, and the MOST important part of all: it's unpredictable which area you unlock next and when that will actually happen! In the recent Zelda games you just KNEW you would unlock the next quarter of the world after the next temple. I don't like that style, it's boring that way, I don't think it fits with Zelda games and I don't want to see that system EVER again in future Zelda games, especially not in console Zelda games!

Thanks for reading, please comment!

Do mind, I never played Majora's Mask (waiting for the remake that will probably arrive someday) and I never played other handheld Zelda games.

 

[A Link In Time]

Excellent first post, TimeforTavel. We welcome you to the forums. It's nice to see a newcomer put such though and effort into his posts.

With Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword Nintendo seemed bent on the idea of crafting the trio of sea, land, and air travel, respectively with the added precision of touch and motion controls. While providing a fresh experience at first glance, these new modes of transportation were overly linear and confining. Nintendo mirrored gameplay progression off of these constraints. There was no story reason for unlocking the realms piece by piece either. It seemed a lazy decision on the part of Nintendo's development team. Twilight Princess too suffered from this problem but to a lesser extent. Why couldn't the Snowpeak Ruins be completed prior to the Arbiter's Grounds? There was no impetus for a forced chain of progression. Skyward Sword, however, was a complete retrogression in the department because the three landmasses were disconnected in relation to themselves and the Sealed Grounds. This contributed to the loss of the traditional adventure atmosphere. Moreover, as you maintained the areas blended very poorly with almost no environment progression. Eldin Volcano was a mere volcano and nothing more and Lanayru Desert was a desert as far as the eye could see. Only Faron Woods slightly redeemed itself with the vibrant Lake Floria area.

Nintendo has made tremendous leaps in the gameplay department with respect to the Zelda franchise, creating greater immersion with the help of the Wii Motion+. The same validation was offered for touch control in the two DS titles. Nevertheless with all due respect, Nintendo has lost touch with the presentation aspect of many of its franchises since Satoru Iwata took the reigns of the company. Epics like Zelda, Metroid, and Mario are "dumbed down" to appeal to a broader target audience. This isn't the way to go. Part of the reason Ocarina of Time achieved such stunning success was due to the rich and varied overworld with dungeons which could be completed out of order. Every geographic area on Earth was thoughtfully represented, establishing the game as a cornerstone for gaming universes to come.

 

[MW7]

Welcome to Zelda Dungeon, and I feel exactly the same way. I really appreciate the openness of earlier Zelda games, and I never liked this new world unlocking mechanic within the Zelda series.

In the Wind Waker you got the whole sea to explore at the beginning.

I just want to point out that the King of Red Lions won't let you explore freely until you've cleared the first two dungeons. This felt very pointless to me. Other than that I liked how this game handled exploration.

In Skyward Sword the game's progression makes sense at least because of the story, but I still would prefer to just explore worlds at my discretion. The first of these three games you pointed out that I played was Phantom Hourglass, and I really was sad to see the choice that the game designers made about the unlocking of portions of the map. Spirit Tracks is the same way, and Skyward Sword's world unlocking made more sense but still disappointed me. I don't understand why Nintendo says they put gameplay over story but then makes design decisions regarding the story that box in the gameplay. I definitely never want to see world unlocking in a Zelda game again either.

I can point out things about world unlocking that I don't like in every Zelda game I've played except for Legend of Zelda, but the amount of unlocking has certainly been increasing throughout the series' history. Personally I liked how A Link to the Past handled this the most. There were a few key plot points that tied the game together, and other than that you were free to do as you wish. The only thing stopping you was needing items to reach new areas occasionally. I liked Ocarina of Time a lot, but two things regarding world unlocking that felt unnecessary to me were the boulders in front of Zora's River and the requirements for reaching the Shadow Temple. In Majora's Mask I really appreciated how items dictated the game's progression, but I think the game could have been more open.

Also I don't like how Twilight Princess handled world unlocking (this is the only thing about your post I didn't identify with). To me the second segment of that game just seemed like a huge slap in the face for people that like to do things in different orders. First off they introduce you to the four people that lead you to the four mirror shard dungeons at once but make you go to the dungeons in a specific order. If you talk to the four people you know where the next dungeons are but still have to follow the game's path for you like a sheep. Another thing is how the entrance to Snowpeak opens up before you go to the desert. So not only do they prevent players from doing Snowpeak before Arbiter's Grounds, they also tease players by letting them into the first part of Snowpeak before you can reach the dungeon. Finally there's a dungeon in an area that you already visited (Temple of Time), and the game just blocks off that area of the game after you leave it for the first time until they want you to play the dungeon.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

doesn't SW=Star Wars

 

[r2d93]

I strongly agree with you.

The most recent installments have reeally been slacking in terms of the overworld and it kind of sickens me a bit. I really want to see the return of free expansive overworlds.

I really liked the way that ALttP's overworld worked. In the beginning everything was open but at the same time wasn't you know? Like the further you got in the game you could return to familiar places and unlock even newer places. Like you'd be paying and get an item and think "oh now I can swim to that place i couldnt reach before" or "now i can get rid of that boulder blocking my path. I liked progression in the game this way, NOT unlocking certan sectors of the world that you couldnt get to before.

I also like TP's overworld a lo because it had that great sense of blending environments like you said. Nothing felt out of place! You could even tell that massive death mountain with all of its fire n lava n junk was coming due to the barren nature of Kakariko and the landscaping around that area of the world.

 

[Ventus]

Commendable post, TimeforTravel! :yes:

I agree with every sentiment posted thus far; I'd much rather be in an overworld where I can spot places that just might be relevant to the quest instead of opening up "the next segment". It's basically a battle between linearity vs nonlinearity, or at the very least that is how I see it.

Games like Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time allow you to explore the overworld almost to its maximum capability without requiring certain items. LoZ, ALttP and to a lesser extent Ocarina allow you to complete the dungeons in almost any order (you can even do Inside the Deku Tree -> Ganon's Castle with the help of a few glitches!). It is much better that way, in my opinion, because it adds to the replayability of the game and it makes the adventure a bit more believable. I mean, I could be told all day long that I need to do my homework on Chapter 1 in my English textbook, but of course I can scour the other chapters before doing my homework [or, if need be, go back to the Table of Contents to find where Chapters 2, 3, 4, etc. are located], right? Same concept *should have* applied to games like Skyward Sword, but it didn't. Instead, we were told to explore the world below (Chapter 1), then find the dungeon and defeat it, then we had to go back to the sky (back to table of contents), do some stuff (read up on chapter 2), fly down to Eldin Volcano (begin reading Chapter 2) and the rest is history.

Speaking of Skyward Sword, I honestly don't see why we had to deal with the segmented overworld. That just doesn't make sense to me. If you go back to Twilight Princess, go to Hyrule Field (northernmost area), and look around the entrance to Lake Hylia. You'll notice some beautiful scenery and some build up to the Lake area. That isn't present in SS, due to the segmented and separated overworld.

At the very least, I'd much rather have beautiful, connected scenery than beautiful, disconnected scenery.

 

[winterbbytumblr]

I see what you are saying and I completely agree with you. This makes the games too linear and too obvious, it gives off less sense of an adventure game. The main parts of Zelda include discovering things, and with the discovering of the worlds set up that way, it takes away from the atmosphere of the game.