Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Yeah in the previous game, his role was me since it was themed after ZD mafia players.
Game Thread Pendio Mafia X
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yeah, so his vote was predetermined in a certain sense.
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Question
Is Funnier capable of being scum as the top poster?
Is Funnier capable of being scum as the top poster?
Rubik
King of Lorule Lounge
Yes, but Tristan claimed a green check on him this game essentially.
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yeah johnny's a good candidate for probing
i guess this is okay but based on what we know about ex (and i'm coming around on rubik)...... ok
ok so first of all poy is >rand%. and it's fine if you wanna vote poy for policy, but then you're all wish washy about it, as if you don't want blame if poy's flip is town
okay and once again tryna distance yourself from blame
leaving other towns with the burden to make a case. always bad. learned that from good ol' macdougall
comes right in with some nk analysis which is tinfoil doesn't help and is a good way for scum to fake contributing
rubik actually wasn't inconsistent but ok.
cool but like what did this iso do? again, you can say this is a scum trying to look like they're contributing. tristan's sms case was say more solid
once again, is fine with killing inactives even though they generally disagree with the strategy
basically ok'ing the current thread state, which is lazy at best and sinister at worst
once again is fine with lynching select inactives. ???
.
cool cool
i guess this is okay but based on what we know about ex (and i'm coming around on rubik)...... ok
ok so first of all poy is >rand%. and it's fine if you wanna vote poy for policy, but then you're all wish washy about it, as if you don't want blame if poy's flip is town
okay and once again tryna distance yourself from blame
leaving other towns with the burden to make a case. always bad. learned that from good ol' macdougall
comes right in with some nk analysis which is tinfoil doesn't help and is a good way for scum to fake contributing
rubik actually wasn't inconsistent but ok.
cool but like what did this iso do? again, you can say this is a scum trying to look like they're contributing. tristan's sms case was say more solid
once again, is fine with killing inactives even though they generally disagree with the strategy
basically ok'ing the current thread state, which is lazy at best and sinister at worst
once again is fine with lynching select inactives. ???
.
cool cool
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I don't see how the slot can be resolved otherwise, the cop is dead, correct?
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*rand% not >rand% is what i meant. sry. it's LATE
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Who? When?
wrt funnier
What game has he accomplished this feat?
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
As promised, here's my take on the Lar/Rag interactions from when the Lover claim came about.
Sorry this post took so long, I'm ADHD as **** and things that should take an hour take me like 4 I'm supposed to be on meds but I'm not so eh
The last part is in response to the possibility of claiming game which, yeah, Rag is right. But at the same down, narrowing down the PoE of roles is also just as helpful if not moreso for town so I'll concede the hesitance to do so is cause for suspicion.
Of course she does eventually reveal her partner. Honestly, looking back and taking a look at their voting patterns, they are pretty obviously aligned.
I get that the later clarification that Rag and Kirino are actually lovers changed Lar's opinion, but this does seem contradictory. I'm curious, @MixMasterLar, if you still feel like this is the case? Scum having two roles from one game, I mean.
Obviously, that wasn't the case, but this was before the flip so it's all relevant. And the point of the matter is, Rag was genuinely scumreading sun fan, which means she believed there would be a chance of him flipping scum.
My problem with this is that it seems like an unnecessary amount of shade for Masons, Lovers, or scumbuds, so I would personally lean more toward a less-than-ideal town play.
Like, legit the only scenario I can see the shade being strategic, even if I don't think it was handled in the most townie of ways.
2. Fair point. Speculation though.
3. And you made a good point. But it is a little bit frustrating that you didn't even bother trying to understand Rag and Kirino's points of view.
She may have been risking incriminating Kirino a bit too much, but it's bad town play at best and really bad scum play at worst. Which is more likely? That type of shade seems unnecessary if they're scum.
Though, I will be honest, one tactic I use as scum fairly often is to suggest my teammates as Vig targets. It's more believable than straight up bussing, and is more subtle, so I suppose I could see an argument that they were doing a similar thing. I think it's a bit of a stretch though.
And the thing is, your logic is actually pretty valid... if they're Masons. But they claimed Lovers, which makes a lot more sense in the context of trying to distance from your partner.
Oh well, I guess they change at start of day, but that doesn't matter since only NKs are affected by it.
I don't care enough atm to come up with any but I'm sure you could find arguments to answer that question.
I disagree that one singular piece of evidence should be enough to risk lynching a pair of lovers, even if I do see why it's shady.
I'm trying to be as reasonable as possible here, and I can't lie and say this post is bad. Lar has a point.
2. This is a bit rude. Additionally, even the people not from ZD - including FG, from your site - disagreed with lynching the claimed lovers.
3. Fair enough.
I don't see a Rag-SMS partnership. In any world. By extension, Kirino-SMS is just as improbable.
Rag-Silverfish is a possibility, meaning Kirino-Silverfish is also a possibility, but that's operating under the assumption that they're lying.
Rag-Jinjo and Kirino-Jinjo is also unlikely, but not as unlikely as an SMS partnership.
I'm saying this without regard for SMS's soft, for the record.
All I gotta say is, again, try to view the other perspective.
See, Lar, I completely understand where you were coming from. Rag saying Kirino looks bad if someone she expected to flip scum did flip scum seems too risky to be coming from lovers. However, it's easy to assume it was just bad play.
That being said, taken what you said into consideration, I understand why you are so skeptical to believe it. But please read my post thoroughly and try to take into account everything I've said. I don't feel like you've tried to view the game or their actions from their perspectives, which is extremely important when the consequence of them not being scum and being lynched is the unnecessary death of two townies. If you do that and can tell me that yes, an argument is to be had in their favour, it'll add credibility to your own. Because I don't really see how you can deny there even being a possibility of them being town.
Like I said, I see where you're coming from, and you made some very good points. If I didn't think there was a likelihood of them being town, I might consider voting for one of them too.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful. I tried to be as reasonable and open-minded as I could going through this.
Sorry this post took so long, I'm ADHD as **** and things that should take an hour take me like 4 I'm supposed to be on meds but I'm not so eh
The claim that started it all. Obviously we know this was a lie, which Rag elaborated on later.
Rag responds to funnier telling her to reveal her partner by telling him he's "probably right". I definitely do see how this could be interpreted as buying time.
The last part is in response to the possibility of claiming game which, yeah, Rag is right. But at the same down, narrowing down the PoE of roles is also just as helpful if not moreso for town so I'll concede the hesitance to do so is cause for suspicion.
Again, this can go either way. I can see how this could be read as buying time, and I can also see how it's genuine.
I quoted this because, in the spirit of transparency, I think it is important to note that Rag did take a lot of time revealing her partner. Despite them evidently both being online at the time (since Kirino posted during this), it took roughly an hour and a half for her to finally reveal her partner after she initially said she would discuss it with him.
Like I said, revealing games also narrows it down in a way that favours town. The hesitancy to claim game here was, rightfully, suspect at the time.
Of course she does eventually reveal her partner. Honestly, looking back and taking a look at their voting patterns, they are pretty obviously aligned.
Lar's initial reaction to the claim. I only quoted it because this is mostly about him, and I wanted to be thorough.
I mean, of course Rag would say this, especially knowing they're actually lovers. This came before the Lovers claim, so I guess it could be seen as seed planting? I'm just trying to see both sides here. I actually think this adds credibility to the claim. Rag would be reasonably paranoid about being lynched if her and Kirino are in fact Lovers; on the flip side, she would also be reasonably paranoid to be lynched if they're scum because it would instantly incriminate the other.
This was in response to Minish's explanation of why claiming game was a good move.
I get that the later clarification that Rag and Kirino are actually lovers changed Lar's opinion, but this does seem contradictory. I'm curious, @MixMasterLar, if you still feel like this is the case? Scum having two roles from one game, I mean.
To be fair, I do think Rag didn't need to be this stubborn about claiming game. The potential info it gave to scum would've also been given to town, and probably just as useful for town. It also would've added credibility to their claim, and they shouldn't have put off claiming Lovers for so long because the longer they put it off the less believable their Mason claim became.
I will say very honestly, Lar has a point here. Rag saying Kirino looked bad if someone she was scumreading flipped scum is probably not the right kind of shade to throw, since honestly if I was Vig that would be something I would consider killing Kirino over if Sun Fan had flipped scum.
Obviously, that wasn't the case, but this was before the flip so it's all relevant. And the point of the matter is, Rag was genuinely scumreading sun fan, which means she believed there would be a chance of him flipping scum.
My problem with this is that it seems like an unnecessary amount of shade for Masons, Lovers, or scumbuds, so I would personally lean more toward a less-than-ideal town play.
Lar, my main issue with you was how absolutely sure you were of Rag and Kirino being scum. You even rescinded a town lean on Kirino over it. I obviously think you're town still, but this stubbornness is likely a big part of the reason why people weren't really listening to you at the time.
This seems... kind of out of character for Minish, and a bit opportunistic. I'm townreading her, but like, this one post stands out and pings me.
I can understand this. I still agree with Lar, that the shade on Kirino when Rag genuinely believed Sun was scum wasn't great play, but this does make sense given the strange situation the Anime 1 Lovers were in.
I'll chalk this up to just being unaware of the roles. Pen hosted a lot of games, I suppose it's easy to get mixed up, especially when Pirates 1 has relatively few substantial roles.
This also looks opportunistic.
Again, I get it. I don't think the way it was handled was necessarily good play from a town or scum perspective, but I get it.
Mason is a pretty likely role to be counterclaimed since there were three pairs of them in the role list, plus the Survivor Masons from Pirates 1. I also think you should've stepped back just a little bit until it was proven there was nobody else from Anime 1 in the game.
For real though.
Like, legit the only scenario I can see the shade being strategic, even if I don't think it was handled in the most townie of ways.
1. Then maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt in this case. If they're scum, won't it eventually just bite them?
2. Fair point. Speculation though.
3. And you made a good point. But it is a little bit frustrating that you didn't even bother trying to understand Rag and Kirino's points of view.
To be fair, I can understand wanting to distance, even as just Masons. Smart mafia can easily pick up on connections between players and determine them to be Masons or Lovers. In the case for the latter, I can get behind not wanting there to be an obvious connection between you.
And these are the kind of posts I wish Lar would be able to look at from more than one perspective. There are valid reasons to assume they're lying, I'm never going to deny that. But the claim does make sense if you sit and consider their motivations.
I do agree that Rag post in which she shaded funnier was a bit more than just simple shade. But think about it, does that amount of shade make sense if they're mafia either?
She may have been risking incriminating Kirino a bit too much, but it's bad town play at best and really bad scum play at worst. Which is more likely? That type of shade seems unnecessary if they're scum.
Though, I will be honest, one tactic I use as scum fairly often is to suggest my teammates as Vig targets. It's more believable than straight up bussing, and is more subtle, so I suppose I could see an argument that they were doing a similar thing. I think it's a bit of a stretch though.
True, but it could also attract Vigs to you. So this argument goes both ways.
Why the hell would you reveal which night makes most sense for them to be bp on? Like for real, this is just asking for them to be NK'd.
The ability to chat outside the game thread can be incredibly valuable, so I would argue there is more benefit to Masons than just the ability to hard townread each other.
And the thing is, your logic is actually pretty valid... if they're Masons. But they claimed Lovers, which makes a lot more sense in the context of trying to distance from your partner.
I would argue saying your partner looks bad if someone you genuinely thought would flip scum did flip scum is a bit more than shade and therefore outside this balance.
Neither, they alternate odd/even nights (ex. one is permanently bulletproof on N1, N3, N5 etc. while the other is permanently bulletproof on N2, N4 etc.).
Oh well, I guess they change at start of day, but that doesn't matter since only NKs are affected by it.
Agreed with the first two paragraphs.
I don't care enough atm to come up with any but I'm sure you could find arguments to answer that question.
In fairness, you could have set Kirino up to be a vig target if Sun had indeed flipped scum. And if that was his BP night it would've caused Godfather speculation etc.
I have to agree with pretty much everything in this post.
I wouldn't say it kills any credibility. As I've said, I really do understand the rationale for distancing, and I think in general it's probably smart play in their case. They may not have went about it the best way, but you have to at least acknowledge that what they're saying does make sense.
This is the truest post in the entire thread probably. Them being scum was, and still is, a realistic possibility. But for the moment, it's important to try and glimpse into their perspective in order to help determine what it more likely.
I forgot to add the post this followed to my multiquote, but it was basically Rag saying the claim was safe. I think that's what the "No it ****ing isn't" is in response to? It might also be in response to Rubik's post I quoted right above this.
I disagree that one singular piece of evidence should be enough to risk lynching a pair of lovers, even if I do see why it's shady.
Honestly this is a very fair post.
I'm trying to be as reasonable as possible here, and I can't lie and say this post is bad. Lar has a point.
This is kind of a loaded question.
More of the same. The tunnel was already real deep at this point.
To be fair, I don't think Lar was really contradicted. His points held up the whole time, it's the tunneling I'm not fond of. The stubbornness, refusing to glimpse into Rag's eyes.
1. Give them more credit, their claim does make sense
2. This is a bit rude. Additionally, even the people not from ZD - including FG, from your site - disagreed with lynching the claimed lovers.
3. Fair enough.
Just quoted this because it's probably pretty telling in regards to connections.
I don't see a Rag-SMS partnership. In any world. By extension, Kirino-SMS is just as improbable.
Rag-Silverfish is a possibility, meaning Kirino-Silverfish is also a possibility, but that's operating under the assumption that they're lying.
Rag-Jinjo and Kirino-Jinjo is also unlikely, but not as unlikely as an SMS partnership.
I'm saying this without regard for SMS's soft, for the record.
But again, shading your lover is also risky because it opens them up as potential Vig targets, or even SK.
This is the end of the important stuff.
All I gotta say is, again, try to view the other perspective.
That being said, taken what you said into consideration, I understand why you are so skeptical to believe it. But please read my post thoroughly and try to take into account everything I've said. I don't feel like you've tried to view the game or their actions from their perspectives, which is extremely important when the consequence of them not being scum and being lynched is the unnecessary death of two townies. If you do that and can tell me that yes, an argument is to be had in their favour, it'll add credibility to your own. Because I don't really see how you can deny there even being a possibility of them being town.
Like I said, I see where you're coming from, and you made some very good points. If I didn't think there was a likelihood of them being town, I might consider voting for one of them too.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful. I tried to be as reasonable and open-minded as I could going through this.
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These quotes are from page 5.
Here, I am looking at how each player implies ignorance.
Rubik implies that funnier wouldn't know his alignment even if Funnier were mafia. Rubik also implies he doesn't know Exlight's alignment by asking Jingo. So, I think its possible that Rubik may be a third party.
DawningWind seems to respond to the three of them saying, "Jingo isn't going to be able..." which implies knowledge.
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Editing for any reason is against the rules.
You'll have to ask @Pendio if your edit is forgiveable seeing as you didn't know.
Anyway, I green checked funnier, yes. I claimed that a while ago. I am not ruling out the possibility of him being GF.
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
That freaking wallpost drained the crap out of me so I'm going to bed goodnight
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Why did you claim?
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Because I was in a hazy state after having stared at my computer screen for several hours, things were moving fast, posts were coming in rapidly, I looked at the most recent vote count and saw funnier was leading and kinda panicked.
It was hasty and probably not in town's best interests, I know. I should've been more careful about it, but it's out now so there's no sense pretending it's not.
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