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OoX and LA

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Jun 16, 2009
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Just thought Id throw this idea in the mix (darklink you can have as much of a go as you like) as I feel it may help SoJ's argument.

Back when OoT was first released (somebody Miyamoto? or somebody else high up) said that OoT was the first story then ALttP then the originals and that LA could go just about anywhere.

Now to me this doesnt seem like Nintendo had LA as a ALttP sequel at that time and so maybe it doesnt have to be a direct sequel to ALttP.
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Location
Kentucky, USA
Just thought Id throw this idea in the mix (darklink you can have as much of a go as you like) as I feel it may help SoJ's argument.

Back when OoT was first released (somebody Miyamoto? or somebody else high up) said that OoT was the first story then ALttP then the originals and that LA could go just about anywhere.

Now to me this doesnt seem like Nintendo had LA as a ALttP sequel at that time and so maybe it doesnt have to be a direct sequel to ALttP.

I've heard this quote before. It would almost make sense too, at least at that time. Because the basic story of LA is Link defeated Ganon, saved Hyrule, but the people of Hyrule were still afraid that Ganon might return. Well, at that point in time, all Zelda titles left off with a defeat of Ganon (LoZ, ALttP, and OoT), so the people could still be afraid of his return at the end of any of those games and technically LA could have went after any of them.

However, we have seen a lot of those options ruled out over the years. Originally, it was pretty clear that LA was meant to be a sequel to ALttP, judging by its box art, various art of characters, and manual storyline. Over the years, this questionable sequel became more and more obvious as a factual sequel. Still, I don't see any Zelda game that rules LA out as a direct sequel to ALttP. It fits perfectly there. The point I'm trying to argue is basically that even OoX, with its similar art style, and even plot, is still not as close to the manual of LA and the connection between it and ALttP to put it between them. OoX had a chance to make it clear if it wanted to be a game after ALttP, but it did not make it clear. It only gave small references to what "could be". LA made it much more clear.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
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No. It says "You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon".

You pretty much fed yourself your own poison with this statement. This completely implies that Ganon has literally taken over or terrorized Hyrule, specifically. Not Holodrum and Labrynna.
 
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No he didn't. That's about the most far fetched idea I have ever heard out of OoX theories. The end of OoX shows him interacting with people from Labrynna or Holodrum, then leaving. Play the game again. Why would Link randomly be shown hanging out with people from Labrynna and Holodrum at the end of the game, then all of a sudden be leaving Hyrule? It makes absolutely no sense why the developers would throw in something that far fetched and unobvious.
Ok tell me, then. Which one does he leave? He is shown leaving the exact same place in both OoA-OoS order and OoS-OoA order. And it shows Zelda looking at the ocean from Hyrule castle, then Link is on a boat on the ocean. It's a weak implication, but it is an implication.
Well I guess if you have too much pride to think that him defeating Ganon in ALttP was bigger and would probably be more important than defeating a half-way Ganon in OoX, then I could see you believing in that idea. But it makes absolutely no sense when you really think about it.
All that is required is for the presence of Ganon to disrupt the peace of Hyrule, which it did, and for Link to return peace to Hyrule by defeating Ganon, which he did.
Where is it that any manual from OoX says that he left for training at the end of that game. I read your post, and I replied to it obviously. No where has it stated that Link left Labrynna or Holodrum and went to train. This quote is pointless.
That is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If you're so adamant on using that argument then tell me, where in LttP does it say he left to train?
Nope, it sure doesn't. OoX ends with Link leaving Labrynna or Holodrum. That is pretty clear.
Which one? Holodrum or Labrynna? And LA doesn't require him to leave Hyrule, it requires him to return peace to Hyrule and leave to train to prevent future disasters.
Call it what you want, but it is what it is. If they wanted to recreate the sprites, they could have. Look at the bosses in the game. They recreated most all of the bosses. They recreated most all of the scenery sprites. If they wanted to, they could have given those enemies different looks, but did they? Nope, they just colored em up and slapped em in there. Case-in-point: They reused sprites.
Yes they reused sprites. But reusing sprites doesn't mean it isn't evidence. Or is the Ocarina of Time in MM not a storyline connection to OoT because they reused it? Well it's connected by other means, but still. It's completely stupid to say something means nothing because they reused it.
Actually I think I'll keep using it all day until you come up with an intelligent solution.
An intelligent solution to what?
Does OoX show Link leaving Hyrule after he defeated Ganon? Nope.
Does it need to? Nope.
Since that is its direct sequel
Prove it still is.
Its pretty obvious that at the time of ALttP's creation, they would not have known anything about LA.
There is a GBA remake of LttP that changed things. They could have easily added a boat onto the end of LttP as they added the Palace of the Foursword.
because Link didn't leave right after the game was over.
Which is for the most part required for LA.
I'm sure if they wanted to show Link leaving Hyrule in OoX, they could have.
1) IT DOES NOT REQUIRE LINK TO LEAVE HYRULE. NOTHING IN THE LA MANUAL REQUIRES THAT. STOP SAYING IT DOES. 2) They did.

I've been giving evidence for OoX/LA. Give me evidence for LttP/LA that is still valid.
You pretty much fed yourself your own poison with this statement. This completely implies that Ganon has literally taken over or terrorized Hyrule, specifically. Not Holodrum and Labrynna.
OoX says that OoX Link is supposed to appear when peace in Hyrule crumbles. OoX Link is in OoX so that means peace in Hyrule has crumbled. Defeating Ganon returns peace. Therefore OoX Link returned peace to Hyrule.

Show me evidence for LttP/LA. Try and find evidence that isn't enemies or geography.
 
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Ok tell me, then. Which one does he leave? He is shown leaving the exact same place in both OoA-OoS order and OoS-OoA order. And it shows Zelda looking at the ocean from Hyrule castle, then Link is on a boat on the ocean. It's a weak implication, but it is an implication.

He leaves whichever the last one you played. Both have oceans and coastlines, and both contain roughly the same characters. Zelda isn't looking out at the ocean either, she is looking into the sky. The only thing from the ending pic that would resemble Hyrule is the castle in the background, but that is not solid proof either as both Labrynna and Holodrum have castle structures in them.

On a side note, Link in that boat is about as good of a piece of evidence to OoX/LA as him riding a horse at the beginning is to support MM/OoX.

lozooxend.png


Yes they reused sprites. But reusing sprites doesn't mean it isn't evidence. Or is the Ocarina of Time in MM not a storyline connection to OoT because they reused it? Well it's connected by other means, but still. It's completely stupid to say something means nothing because they reused it.

I doesn't have to mean nothing, sure. As I said, you can believe it means something if you want. But it is a rather weak example to use, compared to bigger examples to support ALttP/LA.

That is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If you're so adamant on using that argument then tell me, where in LttP does it say he left to train?

I believe I already answered this question. Sounds like your the one who needs to be reading posts.

(in reference to OoX showing Link leaving Hyrule) Does it need to? Nope.

I doesn't, but it should would have helped your theory out quite a bit.

(in regards to LA still being a direct sequel to ALttP)Prove it still is.

Isn't that what I am doing/have done here? Have you not realized that there have been multiple reasons thrown at you in this discussion?

There is a GBA remake of LttP that changed things. They could have easily added a boat onto the end of LttP as they added the Palace of the Foursword.

I already answered that too. And the Palace of the Four Sword is not really a big deal in my opinion. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. But it seems like it was mainly just an extra level to help out the replay value of the game, rather than something they were worried about adding for storyline purposes.

I've been giving evidence for OoX/LA. Give me evidence for LttP/LA that is still valid.

Once again, I have. You should really stop repeating yourself. Your evidence for OoX/LA is pretty weak, and is based on things that aren't as clear as evidence I am using, which is obviousness from the manuals.

OoX says that OoX Link is supposed to appear when peace in Hyrule crumbles. OoX Link is in OoX so that means peace in Hyrule has crumbled. Defeating Ganon returns peace. Therefore OoX Link returned peace to Hyrule.

Does that have to mean that peace in Hyrule has crumbled? I sure would expect for Link to have an adventure there if peace there had been shaken. But he rather goes somewhere else to help out. Sure, in the end it may have stopped Ganon from coming back, and saved princess Zelda. But it was Zelda's fault for even going there in the first place. Peace hadn't even began to crumble in Hyrule until Zelda was taken captive and Twinrova's plan began unraveling. None of this happened before Link got there, and that quote comes from when Link first arrives. It doesn't have to mean that peace is crumbling in Hyrule, only that its what it has meant before.

Show me evidence for LttP/LA. Try and find evidence that isn't enemies or geography

I haven't used enemies or geography, you have. Your the one who keeps saying the enemies are important to OoX/LA and that the end scene (geography) implies that Link is leaving Hyrule. So now I all of a sudden can't use these points? Bummer. Ah well, its not like I have to. The evidence is obvious. Link defeats Ganon, restores peace to Hyrule, but its people are still afraid. He leaves to train in case Ganon returns again. This is obvious. In OoX, the Triforce sends Link to Labrynna/Holodrum on a mission, not to train. The manual of LA is an obvious connection to ALttP, the manual for OoX is not. That is my evidence.
 
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Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
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1) IT DOES NOT REQUIRE LINK TO LEAVE HYRULE. NOTHING IN THE LA MANUAL REQUIRES THAT. STOP SAYING IT DOES.

False, the BS of LA specifically says that Link left Hyrule after defeating Ganon.

You asked the question "does OoX need to show Link leaving Hyrule?" and the answer is YES!

The entire game takes place in Holodrum/Labrynna with the exception of the beginning of the game. If it does not show Link specifically leaving Hyrule then it is quite obvious that it was meant to be taken that he was leaving Holodrum/Labrynna. Both OoA and OoS take place in 2 places completely different from Hyrule which means that whatever country he is leaving from is extremely important and since it is not perfectly clear that he is leaving Hyrule, and since the last scene with Link in it is him speaking to his friends in Labrynna/Holodrum, it seems pretty clear he is leaving Labrynna/Holodrum and not Hyrule. As DarkLink said earlier, it makes absolutely no sense to have him mysteriously leaving Hyrule instead of one of the 2 places he actually has been the entire game.

You told me to stop making up crap, I am going to politely ask you to do the same, because you're only argument for this is "it doesn't say he was leaving Labrynna/Holodrum so it could still be Hyrule."

Stop making up crap, please.
 

Bob Majinki

Deku Director
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Location
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I personally am one who likes LttP - OoX - LA since I'm one of the "8-Zelda" generation, as I call it, which came up with a timeline before the 9th Zelda, Wind Waker. The one thing that unsettles me is that OoX seems to have connections to OoT (Jabu Jabu, Zoras, Gorons, etc.) and so while it is placed near the end of the timeline, it seems like something that belongs at the beginning. PH also disorients me since it seems to be almost a parallel LA if you think about it.

The way I've always seen LA is that Link's past memories are brought to life in this game. You see Ganon and Aghanim from LttP, and you also see many OoX enemies as well. You may write that off as a recycling of graphics, but we have to make do with what we got.

LttP's end and OoX's opening are similar, but it's important to distinguish the differences. OoX's ending and LA's opening are similar again. LttP's ending and LA's opening are far apart and not similar whatsoever. It is impossible to deny the similarities, or write it off as recycled graphics.

To the guy who said "The only way to get from Holodrum/Labrynna is by boat," need I remind you that Link got to those places via Triforce teleportation? So clearly that's not the only way, magic does exist in the games. I mean, just look at them for a moment; that much should be obvious.

Both theories, to me, can work. I prefer to put LA after OoX since I feel that it fits better there. There's still inconsistencies with both of them though, especially if you try to throw Minish Cap's references to OoX into the equation.
 
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You told me to stop making up crap, I am going to politely ask you to do the same, because you're only argument for this is "it doesn't say he was leaving Labrynna/Holodrum so it could still be Hyrule."

Stop making up crap, please.
I'll agree it's a definate implication. But Link left from Hyrule in OoX anyway.
He leaves whichever the last one you played. Both have oceans and coastlines, and both contain roughly the same characters. Zelda isn't looking out at the ocean either, she is looking into the sky. The only thing from the ending pic that would resemble Hyrule is the castle in the background, but that is not solid proof either as both Labrynna and Holodrum have castle structures in them.
1) If he leaves whichever the last one you played then they would look different. 2) There's a little blue patch in the picture with Zelda that I always thought was the ocean, cause it kinda looks like it and fits in with the next scene perfectly. 3) No. Labrynna has a big *** tower, Holodrum has... nothing as far as I remember.

When you see Zelda looking over mountains and in the distance you see something that looks like ocean, then the next scene Link is on a boat in the ocean and the background shows a castle behind some mountains, what are we supposed to think? It's Hyrule castle.
I believe I already answered this question. Sounds like your the one who needs to be reading posts.
Last time I asked this question you said the proof was LA since it's a sequel to LttP.

I have yet to see you post evidence for LttP/LA. Maybe I missed it. Or maybe you haven't posted it. Either way I haven't read any evidence from you. If you post all of your evidence in your next post I'll be sure to see and read it.
I doesn't, but it should would have helped your theory out quite a bit.
Good thing he does leave Hyrule in OoX.
Isn't that what I am doing/have done here? Have you not realized that there have been multiple reasons thrown at you in this discussion?
Then I have missed them all and I apologize for that. The only thing I've noticed you posting is the part about Link leaving Hyrule from LA, which he does in OoX anyway.

Actually after reading through all of the posts in this thread again the only evidence you said for your placement was: "Read it again. It clearly implies that he defeated Ganon and LEFT HYRULE in search of enlightenment." OoX Link left Hyrule in the end. So the only evidence that I've seen after rereading the entire thread is moot.

And if you're going to reply with ANYTHING such as "I've given evidence that you haven't responded to" don't. If you have I've clearly missed it. Point out the "evidence" that I've missed so I can respond to it instead of talking about how I failed to respond to it before.
Does that have to mean that peace in Hyrule has crumbled?
Well the prophecy says that peace in Hyrule is supposed to have crumbled when Link comes. Nothing contradicts it. Therefore peace in Hyrule has crumbled.
Your the one who keeps saying the enemies are important to OoX/LA
I've never said that they ARE important. Actually on multiple occasions I've said that they easily may mean nothing, but that it's worth noting because they MAY mean something. Want me to quote it for you?
Me said:
Enemies may mean nothing,
As I said it could mean nothing. But it IS worth noting because it MAY NOT be reusing of sprites. Saying it IS laziness is being extremely biased.
the end scene (geography) implies that Link is leaving Hyrule.
There are so many things I could say about this, but I'd be afraid of getting an infraction for any swearing I might say, so I'll try and keep this as clean as possible.

You can't say that OoX Link left Labrynna/Holodrum without giving proof, then when I give proof using the only picture possible to give proof for either side you deny it.

There are so many things wrong with that.

I am thoroughly convinced that you are not reading my posts, or you are scanning them. If you had read my posts you wouldn't have replied with something I've covered tons of times.

EVERYTHING of LA can refer to OoX just as well as LttP.

Oh and @Zemen: I agree that it's implied he left Hyrule. Which he did in OoX as well.

But I do stand by what I said. It DOESN'T say he left Hyrule
JAPANESE manual said:
You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon, had not enjoyed the achieved tranquility for too long, and had embarked on a journey of training in preparation for new disasters.

EDIT: I forgot to add a few words which would have made one of my sentances make little-to-no sense.
 
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That last post was pretty pointless, Sign. All you said over and over was how Link for sure leaves Hyrule in OoX, when you have no proof. Your making assumptions and trying to turn them into facts and its not working to your advantage at all. And no, we are not supposed to all of a sudden think he's leaving Hyrule when he's been in Holodrum/Labrynna the ENTIRE GAME. Tell me one person (besides yourself, of course), who would automatically think that?

Zelda wasn't looking in the ocean, she was looking in the sky. The boat at the end is as important as the horse at the beginning. The only reason people make the connection between OoX being before LA is because of that boat at the end. I could just as easily say "Well, at the time, the split wasn't confirmed, and OoX was supposed to take place after MM", and you would technically have no way to argue that.

You can continue to be a child and make up stuff all day long and post spammy threads if you want but really its quite pointless when you think about it. Your upset because you can't be right, obviously. If you want to believe that its OoX/LA, then fine, but don't post it here. The intent of this thread was not to have us come on and copy pages full of quotes all day. We have a thread for LA and OoX placement, made by Zemen actually. So if you want to argue those points further, do it there.

--EDIT--

~Moved most of the posts to LA and OoX placement thread~
 
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Your making assumptions and trying to turn them into facts and its not working to your advantage at all.
I'm making assumptions about it? It's clear that that was Hyrule. You know what? I'm gonna ask ZU, a very LttP/LA biased site, where he was leaving from in OoX.

The castle is identical to the one in the beginning.
Tell me one person (besides yourself, of course), who would automatically thing that?
Never actually had to debate this with anyone 'cause everyone knows that this is one of the clearest things in the series.
Tell me one person (besides yourself, of course), who would automatically think that?
I've posted a thread on ZU for that very purpose.
You can continue to be a child and make up stuff all day long
Wait when did I make stuff up? I posted proof for my side, then you basically said "nuh uh why would he suddenly be in Hyrule?" Well what if they were, you know, SETTING UP FREAKEN LA LIKE I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME.

He's leaving Hyrule as evident by the castle that doesn't appear in Holodrum or Labrynna.
Your upset because you can't be right, obviously. If you want to believe that its OoX/LA, then fine, but don't post it here.
I'm angry because you're being condescending as hell, haven't actually read my posts, and haven't replied with any viable evidence once in the whole damn thread.

EDIT: Hey look my thread: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/96752-asking-for-zus-opinion-on-something.html already has someone posting.

Would you look at that. One of the most absolutely biased people against OoX/LA in all of theorizing, and one of the best theorists in all of theorizing, agrees that he's leaving Hyrule.

Huh so the first reply and I already have someone who disagrees with the placement agreeing with me.

Yeah I'M making things up...
 
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I'm making assumptions about it? It's clear that that was Hyrule. You know what? I'm gonna ask ZU, a very LttP/LA biased site, where he was leaving from in OoX.

Ummm, okay.

He's leaving Hyrule as evident by the castle that doesn't appear in Holodrum or Labrynna. I'm angry because you're being condescending as hell, haven't actually read my posts, and haven't replied with any viable evidence once in the whole damn thread.

There's been plenty of evidence. More or less I was using obvious intent. You have been basically doing the same thing. LA states that Link defeated Ganon and left for training and preparation for another disaster. LA's intent is speaking from the events of ALttP, obviously, as OoX wasn't made at the time. Sure, you could take OoX and stick it in between them and say that they made OoX to fit the BS of LA, but it fits ALttP as well and better IMO considering that OoX didn't take place in Hyrule.

According to LA's manual, Ganon was terrorizing Hyrule. This was its intent. He had a reign of tyrany over that land as he was in control of Agahnim, who was doing his bidding there, obviously killing the king and taking Zelda captive. In OoX, nothing happens in Hyrule. Ganon's "clutches" are in no part over Hyrule at all. Ganon is halfway revived at the very end, and has time to growl and moan before Link defeats him. I have yet to figure out how a halfway Ganon, moaning and growling, in Labrynna/Holodrum, has cause any bit of tyranny over Hyrule.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
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I'm going to agree that it makes sense (based on the picture and other evidence) if it is Hyrule that Link is seen leaving at the end of OoX but the problem I have with that is the people he's waving to. It makes no sense that Link made all of these friends in Holodrum/Labrynna and he's seen leaving Hyrule and waving goodbye to people who weren't even featured in the game. I hope that this is something we can agree on, SoJ, just the fact that it doesn't really make much sense, even if it is what's happening.

Also, I am going to agree with DarkLink when he was explaining how the LA BS says that Link stops Ganon from the clutches and tyranny he had over Hyrule.

Ganon was in OoX long enough for one, short battle which didn't take place in Hyrule, so exactly how was Ganon causing terror in Hyrule if he was only HALF alive for only a few moments AND in a completely different country? If anything, it was Onox and Veran(?) who were terrorizing anything with the help of Koume and Kotake and even then, Hyrule was not being attacked upon at all. The BS for LA clearly is discussing the terrorization of Hyrule and no other place, yet Hyrule seemed to be unaffected by anything that happened in OoX. Ganon was not around long enough to terrorize anything and he's the only enemy discussed in the LA BS.

I'll bet money you (or someone else) would give the age old response of "the BS doesn't have to match perfectly" and I really hope you aren't the type of theorist to do so because it's just a bull**** reason to not come up with an argument.

Ganon terrorizing Hyrule is the main point in the BS of LA and is something that never happens in OoX.

It's like saying that there was a Link between OoT and WW when we are clearly told there wasn't.
 
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The ALTTP-OOX-LA does not make sense since the Oracle Link and Zelda are not the same Link and Zelda from ALTTP.

There's a scene in OOX where Zelda introduced herself to Link.
If this was the same Zelda from ALTTP then her and Link should know each other already.

That's why I don't believe in ALTTP-OOX-LA.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
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The ALTTP-OOX-LA does not make sense since the Oracle Link and Zelda are not the same Link and Zelda from ALTTP.

There's a scene in OOX where Zelda introduced herself to Link.
If this was the same Zelda from ALTTP then her and Link should know each other already.

That's why I don't believe in ALTTP-OOX-LA.

In the defense of ALTTP-OoX-LA, if Zelda introduced herself to Link in OoX, this wouldn't affect LA's placement at all. There is nothing that says OoX Link has to be the same Link as the one from ALTTP if it goes after ALTTP.

I still believe ALTTP/LA-OoX but I like to play devil's advocate.
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
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In the defense of ALTTP-OoX-LA, if Zelda introduced herself to Link in OoX, this wouldn't affect LA's placement at all. There is nothing that says OoX Link has to be the same Link as the one from ALTTP if it goes after ALTTP.

I still believe ALTTP/LA-OoX but I like to play devil's advocate.

At least midna killed those theories that place OoX between ALttP and LA.
OoX, actually, fit as well as after OoX, but not as a direct sequel, as they fit after LA, also not as a direct sequel.
 

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