OoT Just How Old Are the Kokiri?

[Shroom]

Just something I had always wondered. The Kokiri never physically age, but I mean, years go by obviously, so they have an actual time span that they're alive. So how old do you assume the Kokiri are? Saria may have the appearance of a child between 7-12, but perhaps she's already 40 or so? Is Link a much younger child than the rest? Or do you think a "fresh batch" of Kokiri are created every 10 or so years?

Discuss

 

[Djinn]

According to a developer interview they only linger for a while then they just happen to disappear into the woods eventually.
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda-Developer-Timeline-Quotes.php

Miyamoto: Link is a child of a race of elves called "Kokili." For some reason or another, there are no parents in this race, only many children of the same age. All of a sudden, they grow up until they reach a certain age, when they disappear. The next generation is born just as abruptly. So at some point, Link will disappear.

So this does point to a finite lifespan but nothing ever to indicate how long. At the same time there is nothing indicating some kind of lengthy lifespan either. No mentions of Saria etc living a long time or remembering any ancient time in Hyrule so I would assume something very similar to a normal Hylian lifespan at the longest. Possibly even shorter considering none of the Kokiri ever bat an eye towards Link being there for 10 years and then vanishing like any normal kokiri.

 

[Seth]

According to a developer interview they only linger for a while then they just happen to disappear into the woods eventually.
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda-Developer-Timeline-Quotes.php

So this does point to a finite lifespan but nothing ever to indicate how long. At the same time there is nothing indicating some kind of lengthy lifespan either. No mentions of Saria etc living a long time or remembering any ancient time in Hyrule so I would assume something very similar to a normal Hylian lifespan at the longest. Possibly even shorter considering none of the Kokiri ever bat an eye towards Link being there for 10 years and then vanishing like any normal kokiri.

If I remember right, several Kokiri say you look like someone they remember when you return as an adult and openly wonder where Link went, including Mido at least.

 

[Shroom]

If I remember right, several Kokiri say you look like someone they remember when you return as an adult and openly wonder where Link went, including Mido at least.

Yep, Mido says something along the lines of when he looks at you that you remind him of HIM.

 

[Terminus]

Well that Miyamoto quote is wrong. We're explicitly told that Link is Hylian (Deku Sprout after clearing the Forest Temple).

 

[Djinn]

Well that Miyamoto quote is wrong. We're explicitly told that Link is Hylian (Deku Sprout after clearing the Forest Temple).

It's not wrong, it is taken from an interview from when the game came out back in the 90's and Nintendo was still promoting it. They wanted viewers to continue assuming Link was a kokiri until the player discovers the truth during gameplay.
http://www.ign.com/articles/1997/12/03/the-z-files-2
Strategy guides from the era continue the Link is a kokoiri thing for a while. While the reveal about Link is incorrect it does shed some interesting light on how the kokoiri work out. It does point out that Link walking off into the forest and leaving the kokiri was not a strange thing to them.

What I was getting out of it was that the kokiri never noticed anything weird about how Link was only with them for 10 or so years before he left. If they had amazingly long lifespans that would have been very strange from their point of view. But no one pointed out how Link left really earlier than normal however they do remember him. The other side of this is a Mido quote to older Link,

"Oh...I see... Saria won't ever come back... But...I...I made a promise to Saria... If Link came back, I would be sure to tell him that Saria had been waiting for him... Because Saria...really... liked... Hey, you. If you see him somewhere, please let him know... And also... I'm sorry for being mean to him. Tell him that, too." — Mido

Mido thinks that Link might still be alive somewhere despite being gone for 7 years. While every other kokiri from the forest is still alive, the deku tree sprout points out how they have not changed in 7 years.

What I am curious about is how quickly do they age to that point where they stop progressing. Link was taken to the foresat as a baby and grew up among them as one of them, but so far from text it looks like they only that that really stood out to the other kokiri that he was different was the fact that he had no fairy. Not that he was any younger than them or grew up faster/slower etc. This makes me think that they age similar enough to a Hylian that they cannot tell the difference. This makes me think that they might have a lifespan somewhat similar to a hylian, at least in development.

 

[Farore's Chosen]

honestly I don't know. maybe they stop at a certain age? maybe they're childlike spirits of the forest and that's why they never age. maybe they're the spirits of children who have wandered in and died, erasing their memories so they don't feel the sorrow of their former lives. because link is the hero he probably would have aged anyways.

 

[Jirohnagi]

Anyone ever wonder about the Stalchildren of hyrule field? I mean we know from the game itself that any adult who enters the lost woods turns into a stalfos (doesn't explain how they turn up in the shadow temple but meh) so wouldn't it also be conceivable that if a kokiri child left the forest they would turn into a stalchild? Also i think the kokiri don't age at a certain point, most likely at ten years of age, we see that link has grown up among them but when he ages seven years the kokiri do not. Yet we have proof they evolve at a later point.

My thought is the Deku Tree sustains them and gives them life but if they leave the forest they die and turn to stalchildren, however when the deku tree "dies" the forest enters a timeless period that awaits the the rebirth of the tree but because it can't due to Phantom Ganon's influence the children are not able to grow any more.

 

[Djinn]

honestly I don't know. maybe they stop at a certain age? maybe they're childlike spirits of the forest and that's why they never age. maybe they're the spirits of children who have wandered in and died, erasing their memories so they don't feel the sorrow of their former lives. because link is the hero he probably would have aged anyways.

The Miyamoto quote says that they do just stop at a certain age while Hylians keep getting older. But a while ago someone looked at the words that make up their name.

Kokiri = こきり

Ko = こ = Child
I think we can all agree that 'child' is the correct translation here.

Kiri = きり = Remaining (adjective)
Other possible translations include 'fog' and 'mist'.

""Ko" in Japanese means "child," and "kiri" means many things, including "mist" and "fog," but in this case it means "remaining (in a particular state)." In this sense, 'kokiri' makes sense, since the Kokiri remain children forever."

Myst child also works out because of the foggy properties of the forest they are found in. But remaining a child is a much better explanation. However one person had a theory based on kiri possibly being an adjective not a verb. If kiri is a verb then it means remains a child describing them as just staying in childhood, but if it is an adjective then that might mean child remains.

I have wondered if the kokiri have a similar death/life cycle as the deku tree. Where they live for an undetermined amount of time until they die out then later on a new crop of them appear to take the place of the old group. This might solve a few mysteries about how exactly do they reproduce if they are always children and they always regard the deku tree as their father. This fits with a few real world beliefs in nature spirits that also follow the death life cycle of the seasons. It was not uncommon for a local nature deity to actually die in the fall or winter only to be reborn in the spring the same way the plants appear to die in winter and become alive again.

A vegetation deity is a nature deity whose disappearance and reappearance, or life, death and rebirth, embodies the growth cycle of plants. In nature worship, the deity can be a god or goddess with the ability to regenerate itself. A vegetation deity is often a fertility deity. The deity typically undergoes dismemberment (see sparagmos), scattering, and reintegration, as narrated in a myth or reenacted by a religious ritual. The cyclical pattern is given theological significance on themes such as immortality, resurrection, and reincarnation.[1] Vegetation myths have structural resemblances to certain creation myths in which parts of a primordial being's body generate aspects of the cosmos, such as the Norse myth of Ymir.[2]

Abydos commemorating the death of the god, on the same day that grain was planted in the ground (Isis and Osiris, 13). "The death of the grain and the death of the god were one and the same: the cereal was identified with the god who came from heaven; he was the bread by which man lives. The resurrection of the god symbolized the rebirth of the grain."
The germinating seed symbolized Osiris rising from the dead. An almost pristine example was found in the tomb of Tutankhamun by Howard Carter

Jarilo was fairly typical life-death-rebirth deity, believed to be (re)born and killed every year. His mythical life cycle followed the yearly life of various wheat plants, from seeding through vegetation to harvest.With the advent of spring, Jarilo returned from the underworld, that is, bringing spring and fertility to the land. Spring festivals of Jurjevo/Jarilo that survived in later folklore celebrated his return. Katičić identified a key phrase of ancient mythical texts which described this sacred return of vegetation and fertility as a rhyme hoditi/roditi (to walk/to give birth to), which survived in folk songs:

 

[Justac00lguy]

I have one possible theory that relates to some discussion here.

We all know of the tales that the Kokiri can't leave the forest[¹] and that they will turn into a Salfos if they venture into the Lost Woods.[²]

1. "The Great Deku Tree said that if a Kokiri leaves the woods, he or she will die!" - Kokiri
2. "Anybody who comes into the forest will be lost. Everybody will become a Stalfos. Everybody, Stalfos." - Fado

Do we really have to take that as fact though? Why do people turn into Stalfos and why can't they leave their home? You know what kind of disproves this? The fact that you can see Kokiri outside of the forest in the credits completely negates that theory. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that was just a tale passed down to try and keep the race domesticated for protection purposes. I mean they're kids after all and they are vulnerable.



Ok so on to my little theory. We all know each Kokiri is assigned a Guardian Fairy, and we know Link had one. So what happened to Link's? It left him and supposedly went deep into the forest. What if this is the fate of all Kokiri? Eventually their fairies leave and the Kokiri go off wandering into the woods and end up getting "lost".

 

[Djinn]

I have never subscribed to the kokiri become stalfos thing. They move through the lost woods all the time as it is connected to their village. The whole urse on any mortals that move through the woods thing seems more like something set up to protect them. Along with my current belief that they are not really Hylian/human, but just look a lot like them to the casual observer. Plus this is another aspect of them that fits with real world mythology of various fairy folk that live in haunted woods where it is incredibly dangerous to suicidal for any normal people to wander into because they will become cursed, lost, or just killed.

This was later changed some when OoT remake for the 3DS came out. Fado's claim was altered a little to clarify things.

"That guy isn't here anymore. Except for the Kokiri, people who come into the forest end up lost. They all become Stalfos. That's why he's not here anymore. Only his saw is left. Hee hee." — Fado

from the original N64 Fado quote

That guy isn't here anymore.
Anybody who comes into the
forest will be lost.
Everybody will become a Stalfos.
Everybody, Stalfos.
So, he's not here anymore.
Only his saw is left. Hee hee.

The skull kid description given by Navi remained the same so I always considered them the equivalent of stalfos only form children wandering into the forest.

 

[snakeoiltanker]

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that was just a tale passed down to try and keep the race domesticated for protection purposes. I mean they're kids after all and they are vulnerable.

This sound very possible!

Ok so on to my little theory. We all know each Kokiri is assigned a Guardian Fairy, and we know Link had one. So what happened to Link's? It left him and supposedly went deep into the forest. What if this is the fate of all Kokiri? Eventually their fairies leave and the Kokiri go off wandering into the woods and end up getting "lost".

However Link was "the boy without a fairy" until he was needed/chosen. Then when he was sent back in time, back to before he got his fairy, Navi never came; as he was no longer needed to be the chosen hero. So thinking about that, I dont think Navi left Link, he just never received her because he wasn't a true Kokiri. So I have a lack of confidence that the Kokiri's Guardian Fairies would leave them before they expire. I guess what I'm try to get at is that, when discussing the nature of the Kokiri, you can't consider anything that happened with Link to pertain to them, as he was Hyrulian. I hope that made sense.

 

[Beauts]

Well, I seem to remember somewhere that Skull Kids are Kokiri who get lost in the woods (or lose their fairy or something, which is what protects them from the magic in the forest). So I'm guessing perhaps they live until they get lost or something. I mean, adult Hylians who get lost in the woods turn into Stalfos so there could be something in this. That's what arguably happens to Link after OoT before TP, he walks into the forest and becomes a stalfos, aka the Hero's Shade. Anyway, I suppose that this whole disappearing thing could be what happens. It might explain why Mido survives and remembers Link- he's the same Mido. And you meet the same Fado (who explains the stalfos thing to you when you find her in the Lost Woods during the Biggoron sword quest).

 

[HeroOfTime]

I personally don't think that Link changes into a stalfos. But besides this, the evidence for all Kokiri changing into Skull Kids is awfully convenient, but there's one flaw: where do the skull kids go? When traveling around the lost woods, you only see 3 or 4 of them. Do they have a limited lifespan?

@Snakeoiltanker, But if Link didn't get Navi as his fairy, he wouldn't remember her and search for her in MM!

I'm wondering why Link didn't get lost when going into the woods. Going off of Djinn's quote, everyone except Kokiri get lost. Fado didn't say everyone except those with a fairy get lost. I have a feeling it's in their biology. Navi didn't tell you where to go in the woods to keep from disappearing or anything like that. Is it just the presence of a fairy that keeps you safe?

 

[snakeoiltanker]

@Snakeoiltanker, But if Link didn't get Navi as his fairy, he wouldn't remember her and search for her in MM!

sure he would. when he was returned to the past he remembered everything from his time on his quest, thats how everything was saved cuz he was able to warn Zelda about Ganon. Same as he remembered Navi, he spent so much time with her, and missed his companion, which is how MM started! Did you think I meant he didnt get Navi all together? cuz thats not what I mean.