• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Spoiler One of Seven

Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Have you ever considered the idea that Demon Lord Ghirahim could be only one of seven Demon Lords ruling the world below?

I base this question on the theme of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which also, in most popular depictions, each corresponds to a Demon Lord.

The seven deadly sins are wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. I will not list the demons that correspond to each one, because I'm lazy. :P Just kidding. For more info about each demons see the above link.

I assume Lord Ghirahim is perhaps one of several Demon Lords we might encounter (or at least hear mention of) in Skyward Sword that corresponds to a deadly sin. To which sin he would correlate with remains a secret to everybody (or at least only me), as his duel with Link featured some of his personality traits that I could not easily assign.

BUT, something interesting I found might yet yield a clue.;)

I see something very peculiar about Lord Ghirahim's name. The word Latin word "ira" can clearly be seen within. This could, of course, be coincidental, but I wouldn't write it off as such, considering the word "Ira" is Latin for the deadly sin of "wrath", with which Demon Lord Ghirahim would correlate perfectly.

Here's a list of the other deadly sins in their Latin forms(in bold and italics):
  1. luxuria- lust
  2. gula- gluttony
  3. avaritia- avarice/greed
  4. acedia- acedia/discouragement/sloth
  5. invidia- envy
  6. superbia- pride

Something interesting to note: The sin of "pride" is considered to be the most deadly, and is the most vile of the Seven. Hmmm...possibly our final boss?

Read:
Note: I know this might seem controversial to some, but the Seven Deadly Sins theme has been depicted in many other video games and forms of media (i.e. cartoons, anime, comics, manga, etc.). Most of whose target audiences are children and teens. This theme in these forms of media are usually "watered down", altered, and/or allude to it-to best fit into non-controversial standards in regards to the target audiences. I believe that if Skyward Sword follows this theme, Nintendo may take the safe route and only make allusions to this theme. As such, it might not appear so blatant and may come off a-la Majora's Mask (e.g. Stone Tower Temple).

I have more theories surrounding this theme, like: Lord Ghirahim encompassing ALL the seven deadly sins by himself and the seven sages could perhaps be the Seven Virtues, which are the antitheses to the Seven Sins. But in all honesty, these other theories I have sound a little fanfic-esque.:dry:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ariel

Think for yourself.
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Location
Sydney, Australia
Google Ghira, it's an arabic word meaning extreme self-respect and leads to extreme anger when challenged. Hmmmm, reminds me of pride it does.

Oh, and I will concede that this theory holds some water, considering it is confirmed that there are more than just Ghirahim in the underworld. Also, it would be very fitting to Zelda convention for their to be seven somethings that Link must conquer or collect. But what makes Ghirahim so special, hmmm.

Oh wait, Pride is considered the king of the deadly sins because it's seen as the one that leads to all others. The associated demon that goes with pride is Lucifer, king of the underworld and devil, which suits the setting of the game. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo, they borrow heavily from myth and other cultures. Great analysis and find!
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Very interesting find...by both of you.

Another related point is that the name "Hira" (very similar to Ghira) is a Sanskrit name that means Diamonds. And as we know, the diamond motif is a very significant attribute of Ghirahim's attire.

Now that this has been pointed out, I really hope that this is the case with the Dark Tribe. 7 main bosses, 7 distinct personalities. 7 is a very powerful number in many cultures, including Zelda. It all seems to make sense. And I agree that Ghirahim and his mannerisms all point to him being "Pride". Include the fact that he wears his hair specifically to cover his deformed ear, which would seem to indicate that he is much too proud to show any of his faults.
 

Hero_in_Green

Hero of Time
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Canada
hmm this does sound very interesting and I also wouldn't put it past Nintendo to come up with things like this. Although this game may have the regular 6 or 7 dungeons, I doubt that all of them will have demon lords as the dungeon bosses. However they may provoke other creatures and enemies into attacking Link (as we've seen with the Golden Statue boss being set on Link by Ghirahim).

The seven deadly sins very well be incorporated into the demon lords but I think that they will have a combination of them in about maybe a trio of demon lords.
 

Unlucky Monkey

The Great King of Apes
Joined
May 17, 2011
Location
NRW, Germany
Very nice thoughts Wolf Sage.

In modern World Literature, The Seven Deadly Sins are best known for their apperiance in Dante Alighieris Divine Comedy (the Inferno part) (currently reading this monster). Looking at the Final Fantasy series or Devil May Cry, japanese artists seems to be obsessed by Dantes work. It could be interesting to see incarnations of The Seven Deadly Sins in Skyward Sword. But I have to say, the idea is not new and creative. But some kind of interesting.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
uhm, but I dont think they would represent the "sins" because:

a) I dont think Nintendo want to go back to religious things

b) there are some "sins" that would not look, uh, "good", even for T rated game (if it is T rated) cofcoflustcofcof
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
uhm, but I dont think they would represent the "sins" because:

a) I dont think Nintendo want to go back to religious things

b) there are some "sins" that would not look, uh, "good", even for T rated game (if it is T rated) cofcoflustcofcof

Hence this message:

Read:Note: I know this might seem controversial to some, but the Seven Deadly Sins theme has been depicted in many other video games and forms of media (i.e. cartoons, anime, comics, manga, etc.). Most of whose target audiences are children and teens. This theme in these forms of media are usually "watered down", altered, and/or allude to it-to best fit into non-controversial standards in regards to the target audiences. I believe that if Skyward Sword follows this theme, Nintendo may take the safe route and only make allusions to this theme. As such, it might not appear so blatant and may come off a-la Majora's Mask (e.g. Stone Tower Temple).

Many series aimed at children and teens have used the Seven Sins theme one way or another. Each one usually has its own take on it, and are very cautious to "water down the content" to appeal to children and teens, as to not be viewed as controversial. This theme usually comes in the form of allusions. Examples include the popular anime series Digimon and the more pre-teen/teen oriented Fullmetal Alchemist; there are tons of others, including books and other media. My theory is that, if nothing else, Skyward Sword will at least allude to the theme.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ariel

Think for yourself.
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Location
Sydney, Australia
Ghirahim has been confirmed to evolve in gameplay terms, which no doubt has ties to story progression and character evolution. Do you think he will be the sole inhabiter of these seven deadly sins, the most prolific if which is pride, the king of all sins, as he progresses throughout the game? Or are we sticking with the 7 different demons, Ghirahim being one of them?
 

IHNo

The Other Side
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Location
Skyloft, yo!
Interesting theory - I like it. Ghirahim himself seems to house pride and wrath, but if your theory is true, we could be seeing other demonic characters that flaunt the sins as well. However, if Ghirahim does hold two of them, we'll be seeing less then seven demon characters. I guess this theory could go in line with the Deck of Cards, and there could be three other demons doused in hearts, clubs, and spades with certain deadly sins. Like a band of brothers....or something. Meh.


"Include the fact that he wears his hair specifically to cover his deformed ear, which would seem to indicate that he is much too proud to show any of his faults."

Hmm, that's right. He does have a normal/deformed ear. Weird. Wonder why that is.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Location
MD
Assuming the cutscene from TP is anything to go by, if he is, indeed, one of the interlopers who uses the Fused Shadow to gain dominion of the Sacred Realm, wouldn't he be one of three? Ghirahim's name, like many names created in fictional universes, is undoubtedly inspired by real world influences. It likely roots from the Arabic term, "ghira," as mentioned above, which is used to describe self-respect, protective jealousy, and it is a feeling of fury with great anger when one's honor and prestige is challenged or injured. Someone above also mentioned the Sanskrit term "hira," which means diamonds. This is certainly a testament to the personality and design of Ghirahim's character, as he does seem to be overwhelmed with pride, is easily angered, and dons an outfit decorated in diamonds.

One could also link the Arabic and Indo-Aryan influences that seemingly shaped his name to the themes portrayed so far in Skyward Sword, from what we've seen. The reversed Zelda's lullaby that makes up the theme song for the game certainly has that Arabic sound to it. When watching the GDC trailer, we get a hint that a large golden statue with multiple arms will be the final foe of a dungeon Link will eventually have to overcome. This is likely inspired by various Hindu Gods with numerous limbs. Sanskrit is the liturgical language for Hinduism, farther strengthening the link of these influences that may have helped to shape Ghirahim's name.

To be honest, though, I think Nintendo tries to avoid conventional religion in the story and subject matter of their games. For example, notice the Mirror Shield has a different design in new iterations of Ocarina of Time (From its rerelease on the Gamecube to the 3DS remake). The crescent moon and stars in the design were too similar to the Islamic emblem, and were changed to a Gerudo symbol. A Link to the Past was originally supposed to be called Triforce of the Gods, but was changed to avoid religious controversy.

From what I've mentioned above, certainly, Nintendo takes inspiration from real world entities to influence the subject matter of their games, hence the goddesses, demons like Ghirahim, the notion of an afterlife, even the ascension to one (as seen through Kotake and Koume's defeat in Ocarina of Time), as well as touches on reincarnation, and even a creation theory. That said, they are careful not to cross that fine line from fiction to non-fiction. If they won't allow for an Islamic symbol or even chants that sound similar to prayer, I sincerely doubt that they will include the Christian take on the seven deadly sins.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
I'd like to say that the TP cutscene is nothing to go by, when discussing the Interlopers. Everything seen in that cutscene
was symbolic, it was all a vision seen by Link. It showed only Link and Illya to show that everyone, however good or evil they seemed, was corrupted by
greed, and the Interlopers were symbolized by Dark Link, probably to show that they were completely, unreversably corrupted.
Also, the fact that there were just three probably doesn't say anything either.
The whole vision/cutscene was just a story, no recording.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Ghirahim has been confirmed to evolve in gameplay terms, which no doubt has ties to story progression and character evolution. Do you think he will be the sole inhabiter of these seven deadly sins, the most prolific if which is pride, the king of all sins, as he progresses throughout the game? Or are we sticking with the 7 different demons, Ghirahim being one of them?

Hmm? If my theory proves at least partially true, I would not rule out the ideas you present, especially the idea of Lord Ghirahim sole embodying the seven sins. I wish Lord Ghirahim's skirmish with Link reveal a bit more personality-wise about him, as attributing him to a deadly sin proves quite difficult, given the ambiguity. The One of Seven idea would introduce more interesting "demon-esque characters", but I'm open to anything that might add to the concept or even debunk it...

Interesting theory - I like it. Ghirahim himself seems to house pride and wrath, but if your theory is true, we could be seeing other demonic characters that flaunt the sins as well. However, if Ghirahim does hold two of them, we'll be seeing less then seven demon characters. I guess this theory could go in line with the Deck of Cards, and there could be three other demons doused in hearts, clubs, and spades with certain deadly sins. Like a band of brothers....or something. Meh...

Not meh at all... I remember the proposed Cards theme! I really liked it a lot, and to see it combined effectively somehow with the Seven Sins theme would be mighty epic. However, sadly, the combination of these two themes might not be unique or original, as it feels like I've seen it somewhere before; and believe you me, coming from me, that's saying something.

Assuming the cutscene from TP is anything to go by, if he is, indeed, one of the interlopers who uses the Fused Shadow to gain dominion of the Sacred Realm, wouldn't he be one of three? Ghirahim's name, like many names created in fictional universes, is undoubtedly inspired by real world influences. It likely roots from the Arabic term, "ghira," as mentioned above, which is used to describe self-respect, protective jealousy, and it is a feeling of fury with great anger when one's honor and prestige is challenged or injured. Someone above also mentioned the Sanskrit term "hira," which means diamonds. This is certainly a testament to the personality and design of Ghirahim's character, as he does seem to be overwhelmed with pride, is easily angered, and dons an outfit decorated in diamonds.

One could also link the Arabic and Indo-Aryan influences that seemingly shaped his name to the themes portrayed so far in Skyward Sword, from what we've seen. The reversed Zelda's lullaby that makes up the theme song for the game certainly has that Arabic sound to it. When watching the GDC trailer, we get a hint that a large golden statue with multiple arms will be the final foe of a dungeon Link will eventually have to overcome. This is likely inspired by various Hindu Gods with numerous limbs. Sanskrit is the liturgical language for Hinduism, farther strengthening the link of these influences that may have helped to shape Ghirahim's name.

To be honest, though, I think Nintendo tries to avoid conventional religion in the story and subject matter of their games. For example, notice the Mirror Shield has a different design in new iterations of Ocarina of Time (From its rerelease on the Gamecube to the 3DS remake). The crescent moon and stars in the design were too similar to the Islamic emblem, and were changed to a Gerudo symbol. A Link to the Past was originally supposed to be called Triforce of the Gods, but was changed to avoid religious controversy.

From what I've mentioned above, certainly, Nintendo takes inspiration from real world entities to influence the subject matter of their games, hence the goddesses, demons like Ghirahim, the notion of an afterlife, even the ascension to one (as seen through Kotake and Koume's defeat in Ocarina of Time), as well as touches on reincarnation, and even a creation theory. That said, they are careful not to cross that fine line from fiction to non-fiction. If they won't allow for an Islamic symbol or even chants that sound similar to prayer, I sincerely doubt that they will include the Christian take on the seven deadly sins.

Excellent analyses...

...as for the part in bold:

Many series aimed at children and teens have used the Seven Sins theme one way or another. Each one usually has its own take on it, and are very cautious to "water down the content" to appeal to children and teens, as to not be viewed as controversial. This theme usually comes in the form of allusions. Examples include the popular anime series Digimon and the more pre-teen/teen oriented Fullmetal Alchemist; there are tons of others, including books and other media. My theory is that, if nothing else, Skyward Sword will at least allude to the theme.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Location
MD
Excellent analyses...

...as for the part in bold:

Many series aimed at children and teens have used the Seven Sins theme one way or another. Each one usually has its own take on it, and are very cautious to "water down the content" to appeal to children and teens, as to not be viewed as controversial. This theme usually comes in the form of allusions. Examples include the popular anime series Digimon and the more pre-teen/teen oriented Fullmetal Alchemist; there are tons of others, including books and other media. My theory is that, if nothing else, Skyward Sword will at least allude to the theme.

Indeed, allude does seem to be the correct term to describe The Legend of Zelda's take on religious influences. As I mentioned, they take inspiration from conventional religion, but are sure not to cross the line from fiction to non-fiction. If a take on the seven deadly sins is introduced, it would have to be altered in ways to describe the traits of Link's enemies. We've already seen this through the traits of Ganondorf.

That said, it isn't necessarily an original concept. It has been used many times in many different mediums, even in video games like Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows and, of course, Dante's Inferno (I couldn't play a game that puts a sythe in Dante's hands lol). Someone above also mentioned the possibility of a playing card theme, to try to explain Ghirahim's diamond design. Like the seven deadly sins, such a concept has been used in enemy themes many times before, most notably in Alice in Wonderland, or even the Fable series, as seen through Jack of Blades and The Court he is a part of.

Nintendo are innovators, so I truly doubt a direct correlation between the seven deadly sins and the design of seven demons in Skyward Sword. This is all I mean when I say that Nintendo will avoid conventional religion, just as they always had. They may take inspiration from the prospect of the seven deadly sins, just as they have with every religion in the formation of folklore and religion within the games, but direct relations to aspects of real world religions have never been permitted, and I don't think that's about to change with the sensitive market Nintendo must appeal to.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom