General Zelda Omniscient Triforce?

[NoRush]

In the opening of ALttP, we are told the Triforce is omniscient.

Why then is it said the Triforce granted Ganon's wishes not knowing whether the wish was good or not?

"The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them." coming from this source

"Long ago, in the beautiful kingdom of Hyrule surrounded by mountains and forests... legends told of an omnipotent and omniscient Golden Power that resided in a hidden land." from the same source.

 

[Dio]

'Legends told'

Legends lie

 

[NoRush]

'Legends told'

Legends lie

Not good enough. 99% of that Legend was true. You're saying that tiny, tiny, extremely important piece of information just happens to be false surrounded by all that Truth?

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I always thought it was because the gods have to grant the wish of whoever touches the triforce no matter if they are good or evil. As long as one has Power, Wisdom, and Courage balanced than they must get their wish. The gods cannot judge somebodys intententions for using the Triforce, this is why if somebody who has bad intentions comes along than the hero spirit is also reborn, or in some cases the gods send repersentatives to do things for them, like the light spirits. Technically the gods can't intervene in hylian affairs, although they did in WW...

 

[Salem]

"The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them."

I believe this sentence was added by the NA translation team, it wasn't in the original Japanese version, so this a likelihood that it's inaccurate.

 

[Heroine of Time]

I always interpreted "cannot" as "does not". It's omniscient and is fully capable of distinguishing intentions, but it doesn't really care for whether the intention is good or evil, and even if it does care, it's forced to bend to their will anyway. It can simultaneously know that they're evil, but not "judge" them, like having an opinion that evil is wrong.

Perhaps you could also argue that the Triforce is merely an object, despite being a powerful one, and thus does not have a conscience against which to weigh good versus evil. After all, good and evil are relative, aren't they? Besides, even though it's omniscient, we see time and time again that it's unable to do anything without a mortal guiding it, so it essentially takes on that mortal's morality. That omnipotence exists only so that it can serve the mortal that is using it. Anyway, the gods seem to have other ways of dealing with mortals who misuse the Triforce, as Spiritual Mask Salesman pointed out.

 

[Rafa1996]

If it's omniscient it means it knows everything. Maybe it does, but just doesn't distinguish good from evil.

 

[NoRush]

"The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them."

I believe this sentence was added by the NA translation team, it wasn't in the original Japanese version, so this a likelihood that it's inaccurate.

Hmm I think I find this explanation to be most satisfying.

The gods and the Triforce are closely related, but they are different. The gods are not inanimate objects. I can't really see a description of the gods being relevant here.

I always interpreted "cannot" as "does not". It's omniscient and is fully capable of distinguishing intentions, but it doesn't really care for whether the intention is good or evil, and even if it does care, it's forced to bend to their will anyway. It can simultaneously know that they're evil, but not "judge" them, like having an opinion that evil is wrong.

Perhaps you could also argue that the Triforce is merely an object, despite being a powerful one, and thus does not have a conscience against which to weigh good versus evil. After all, good and evil are relative, aren't they? Besides, even though it's omniscient, we see time and time again that it's unable to do anything without a mortal guiding it, so it essentially takes on that mortal's morality. That omnipotence exists only so that it can serve the mortal that is using it. Anyway, the gods seem to have other ways of dealing with mortals who misuse the Triforce, as Spiritual Mask Salesman pointed out.

I like that, perhaps all-knowing doesn't necessarily mean it judges, especially when subjective morality comes into play. Interesting. It almost defeats the purpose of being
omniscient, but I suppose, running down the logic chain, it could make sense. But then, if it is all knowing, wouldn't the Triforce know the subjective morals of the person using it? Therefore knowing if the users wish and intentions were either good or evil?

Hmm. Conundrum!

Edit: Oh! And the way the sentence is written, suggests that IF the Triforce knew the wish was bad, it wouldn't grant it.
"The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them."

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Idk, Triforce lore changes drastically between AlttP and OoT, and so forth. So its more of a question between which Triforce lore do you believe to be right. I guess the way Ganon in WW explains it is the one I believe. That being that the Triforce controls the gods and its the gods who grant your wish. They would now a person's intentions but they can't intervene personally into Hylian affairs.

 

[Mask-Salesman]

I think Spiritual Mask Salesman is right. It's not if someone is good or evil. Good or evil is just a matter of perspective. It's about if they have Wisdom, Courage and Power balanced. If that isn't the case, the Triforce splits into three pieces.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I think Spiritual Mask Salesman is right. It's not if someone is good or evil. Good or evil is just a matter of perspective. It's about if they have Wisdom, Courage and Power balanced. If that isn't the case, the Triforce splits into three pieces.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[NoRush]

Idk, Triforce lore changes drastically between AlttP and OoT, and so forth. So its more of a question between which Triforce lore do you believe to be right. I guess the way Ganon in WW explains it is the one I believe. That being that the Triforce controls the gods and its the gods who grant your wish. They would now a person's intentions but they can't intervene personally into Hylian affairs.

Ahhhh okay that make's a lot more sense to me. I don't know as much about theZelda world as you do, definitely haha. Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I see that now for sure.
I agree with you too haha : p

 

[Justac00lguy]

The Triforce is a rather mysterious and, frankly, unknown object within the Zelda universe and quotes from one game seem to contradict another and so on. Here's my overall thoughts about the Triforce and the question at hand:

So we know that the Triforce was left behind by the Golden Goddesses - all mighty beings who's power is hard to fathom. The Triforce is basically an object that holds an essence of the three Goddesses: Power, Wisdom, and Courage. It's these three virtues that make up the balance of power in Hyrule and this must be kept in tact to maintain order. So the Triforce isn't really one to distinguish between good or evil as that's subjective and I doubt the Triforce, even being all knowing, would be biased towards one side. Of course it's clear to us which side is evil and which side is good, but as I said, the Triforce simply cannot lean towards one side. If the Triforce was only made for good, then good and evil would not exist - these two go hand in hand as they counteract each other, think Yin and Yang, you can't have one without the other.

What we know is that, like I said in the previous paragraph, the Triforce is a combination of three virtues that must stay as one for order to exist. I would like tothink that the Triforce was left, not to keep out evil, but to just maintain that order I was talking about. You wouldn't wish on the Triforce unless you had to; however if that order turns into chaos then that's where the golden relic's power truly comes into play.

As well all know, the terms for one to wield the full Triforce is a balanced heart. Remember balanced isn't good or bad; it's power, wisdom, and courage. So this could potentially mean that, yes, evil could use the Triforce too. If you think about it, the Goddesses were the only known creators and thus they're the ones who created both good and evil. You could probably turn the situation around and look at this from evil's point of view. Evil only exists to antagonise good, if there was no good then there would be no wars, right? So evil could potentially use the Triforce to get rid of the "good" forces and then that would bring order back to Hyrule.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

The Triforce is a rather mysterious and, frankly, unknown object within the Zelda universe and quotes from one game seem to contradict another and so on. Here's my overall thoughts about the Triforce and the question at hand:

So we know that the Triforce was left behind by the Golden Goddesses - all mighty beings who's power is hard to fathom. The Triforce is basically an object that holds an essence of the three Goddesses: Power, Wisdom, and Courage. It's these three virtues that make up the balance of power in Hyrule and this must be kept in tact to maintain order. So the Triforce isn't really one to distinguish between good or evil as that's subjective and I doubt the Triforce, even being all knowing, would be biased towards one side. Of course it's clear to us which side is evil and which side is good, but as I said, the Triforce simply cannot lean towards one side. If the Triforce was only made for good, then good and evil would not exist - these two go hand in hand as they counteract each other, think Yin and Yang, you can't have one without the other.

What we know is that, like I said in the previous paragraph, the Triforce is a combination of three virtues that must stay as one for order to exist. I would like tothink that the Triforce was left, not to keep out evil, but to just maintain that order I was talking about. You wouldn't wish on the Triforce unless you had to; however if that order turns into chaos then that's where the golden relic's power truly comes into play.

As well all know, the terms for one to wield the full Triforce is a balanced heart. Remember balanced isn't good or bad; it's power, wisdom, and courage. So this could potentially mean that, yes, evil could use the Triforce too. If you think about it, the Goddesses were the only known creators and thus they're the ones who created both good and evil. You could probably turn the situation around and look at this from evil's point of view. Evil only exists to antagonise good, if there was no good then there would be no wars, right? So evil could potentially use the Triforce to get rid of the "good" forces and then that would bring order back to Hyrule.

Exactly, :yes: