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(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here

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CynicalSquid

Swag Master General
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
The End
Gender
Apache Helicopter
It is physically impossible for there to be a distinction. I don't understand how this isn't an accepted fact.

Physically, yes. Like I said though, just because they have the powers doesn't mean they should use it. Just because they can delete the site doesn't mean they should. Just because they can Moderate doesn't mean they should. It's a clear abuse of power in my eyes. If you have such privileges it doesn't mean you can step out of your boundaries. You need to know your limits when you have such powers.

/finalposthereiswear
 
Physically, yes. Like I said though, just because they have the powers doesn't mean they should use it. Just because they can delete the site doesn't mean they should. Just because they can Moderate doesn't mean they should. It's a clear abuse of power in my eyes. If you have such privileges it doesn't mean you can step out of your boundaries. You need to know your limits when you have such powers.

/finalposthereiswear

While I understand, how is it enforceable? Not saying Kitsu would, but he could delete Locke, he could even delete Mases if he wanted too.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
You're all posting too fast for me to keep up, so I need to address this before I continue reading:

I think the main problem I have here is that (I believe) Admins were split into Moderation and Tech, yet Kitsu, a Tech Admin, was moderating. I don't have anything against Kitsu being a Tech Admin or anything, because he has done a lot of good work for the site. It's just that I can't understand why would you split the rank when Tech Admins are acting as Moderators. It makes the split really redundant. He shouldn't be demoted or anything because of his anger. He just shouldn't be able to hand out infractions and such because he's not a Moderator. That's what I think about the matter.

Several of us had misgivings when Kitsu and Rep were brought on as administrators because we felt that if they had been up for the mod rank we would have rejected them, so we wanted a clear division of responsibilities between them and the other admins. Instead of creating a new rank for them, we decided to split mod out of admin. Since then, there was much discussion, and I was convinced that my idealist values were holding back the forum and it would be best to welcome the more realist perspective those two offered. That is, if something needs to be done (e.g. an infraction given), and they have the power to do it, they should be allowed to do it. So the ranks were quietly merged back together and I reluctantly accepted that they should be allowed to make decisions that I might not agree with.

There is tension in the leadership team, and things like this are bound to happen, but I hope the reward is worth the struggle. When I was asked to consider Kitsu and Rep for admin, I characterized them as people who care about ZD but get frustrated and act inappropriately when something that needs to be done isn't getting done. I believed that the negative part of that assessment will become a nonissue when they're empowered to do things. I still do, but it doesn't vanish instantly.
 

DARK MASTER

The Emperor
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
One of my apprehensions about reporting and making this public is that of course I knew I'd be the victim like always of some type of character assertion, straw man, and of course the truth inverted. When I say "victim" I don't mean this in some type of abstract sense, I mean I truly believe that I have been targeted unfairly based on personal bias, pandering to the bias, and certain events which happened half a decade ago.

Regarding DMs infraction, Dark Master from what I understand is one of the worst trolls to plague the site. Frequent sexual comments, poor posting, and flaming among other things are present in his history. Unlike Kitsu, however, his behaviour has stayed the same. The staff here have been too afraid to infract him for his wrongdoings because they are more concerned with thier own reputation that they put user safety to the side. Staff incompetence and unwillingness to do the job they are supposed to be doing is why this forum is so riddled with trolls. Users like Josh Power Z who do nothing but make poor posts should have been infracted for it, but nothing was done. Even I have made very poor posts and have not been infracted. The staff has not been doing their job, and now Kitty is doing what has to be done whether you like it or not.

First off this is pretty offensive considering that she isn't even remotely a "ZD Historian" and just recently joined. I'm a bigger Zelda fan than pretty much everyone minus a few expectations who're at my level in terms of how many thousands of dollars I've spent. This is of course ignoring all my hard work in my retrospective where in that I have half of the Zelda games recorded 100% (including the side-games of course).

I was a bit trollish when I first joined, but only in the Stephen Colbert sense that I was dishonest about who I was, but with good intentions. Helping people discover Zelda games they knew not of.

However, the main reason I can't take this seriously is because with Ventus, FD, Austin, Xinn, Drum, and many others who have trolled in a way that is harmful, trying to create some type of disturbance without any just cause, lacking good intentions.

Sexual? Really!? So I'd like to state that I am in fact hypersexual and I am highly fascinated by the subject, but honestly I wouldn't really discuss sex itself, hell, I even pushed for a rule to be added in the Text Chat about how we shouldn't discuss sex too often. There is a huge difference between sex and sexuality.

And I assume sexuality is allowed on these forums..... But if discussing a pee fetish is allowed sexuality is probably okay too....

Well, you can't really comment on whether or not my "behavior" has stayed "the same" when you didn't know me whatsoever.

DM has been up Kit's *** ever since he made a comment about being unsure whether or not DM was ever serious at a given time.

Honestly, I do like you Eric so this is disappointing considering because I honestly believe Kitsu has been attacking me for the past few weeks, exactly the opposite of what you had stated.

He has been completely on my "***"..... Face it, he didn't like me calling him out privately so he attacked me, but the problem was he did it publicly without any justification because he thought he could, which is how this ENTIRE thing happened.

Sorry I had to make that, but I felt like numerous people who know nothing about me have been attacking my character.

People said Kitsu didn't do power abuse because he was acting out of frustrating, but in my mind it seems like that is power abusesince he couldn't control himself and thought he could get away with it.

ALIT had told me things had gotten better, but I question that now.....

I don't mind if Kitsu is still an admin as long as he strictly deals with tech, so we have mods, tech-admins, community coordinators, admins. He just shouldn't deal with people if he can't handle it which he has in my strong opinion as my many experiences have taught me.

I feel bad I even had to make this, but so many people seemed to be making such bold assertions about a person they've hardly knew.

Thanks for reading this guys!
 
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Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
Okay. This isn't exactly an infraction. But it's the only suitable place to bring it up. And it definitely qualifies as an unfair punishment. I think it brings up an important point that needs to be addressed regardless so I'm doing it.

I'm bringing this up on behalf of someone else. It seems that DARK MASTER has found that he has been unable to access the shoutbox and has been notified that he's banned for the shoutbox. No reason for this ban was given and he has attempted to contact the staff about this issue. Seeing as how all attempts to discuss this matter were ignored, I decided to make a post about it here.

The only conversation that DARK MASTER had on the shoutbox on the day this happened (May 20, 2015) was a brief conversation enclosed in its entirety here:
[22:53:04:UTC] Spirit : What worries me about Zelda U is that it'll do what SS did and not include obvious things to make the game more intricate or interesting
[22:53:04:UTC] HeroOfHyrule64 : replied to thread Which Song Are You Currently Listening To?
[22:53:09:UTC] G-King : Witcher isnt, it is packed with things and its 3 times bigger than skyrim
[22:53:53:UTC] G-King : I hate that Zelda discards things that are good about their predecessor
[22:53:56:UTC] HeroOfHyrule64 : replied to thread What is the most unsettling moment in Majora's Mask?
[22:53:57:UTC] Spirit : Witcher does look more interesting than skyrim which is nice
[22:54:05:UTC] G-King : like doing away with the Parry from WW
[22:54:15:UTC] Spirit : though it being 3 times bigger just daunts me
[22:54:51:UTC] G-King : doing away with a proper difficulty like MM
[22:54:52:UTC] Spirit : I dont know if im the only one but i so thougt thy were going to put the fatal blow into WWHD, waiting for enemies to get back up after kocking them down doesnt feel right after TP and SS
[22:55:03:UTC] Spirit : but yeah, Zelda games often forgt what they did before hand
[22:55:37:UTC] Spirit : TP had a lot of nice ideas that they didnt keep. Like fairies not healing you on full health. Putting rupees back you didnt need
[22:55:41:UTC] DARK MASTER : A lot of games do that.
[22:55:54:UTC] Spirit : Zelda is bad for it though
[22:56:04:UTC] Spirit : and between TP and SS the flaws got worse
[22:56:17:UTC] DARK MASTER : Well not healing you to full health has been around since LoZ1 lol.
[22:56:18:UTC] Spirit : It was annoying in tP when Link would hold up a rupee
[22:56:38:UTC] G-King : yeah
[22:56:40:UTC] Spirit : It was even worse in SS when it did it for every treasure and then took you to the item screen to show you it pop in
[22:56:50:UTC] G-King : i know what a blue rupee is
[22:57:01:UTC] Spirit : not to full halth, ON full health
[22:57:24:UTC] Spirit : Walk into a fairy with full hearts in WW and it'll heal you even though you dont need it. TP fairies didnt do that
[22:57:29:UTC] G-King : Yeah a fairy leaves you alone unless you need it
[22:57:45:UTC] DARK MASTER : I liked how TP looked and find it silly when people say "this isn't the right visual style for Zelda" since Zelda historically speaking has no visual style.
[22:57:57:UTC] G-King : v
[22:58:21:UTC] Spirit : The only problem i have with the way TP looks is that playing it on my HD 50inch TV makes it look nasty
[22:58:32:UTC] Spirit : play it on the right tv and its still darling to see
[22:58:36:UTC] G-King : SS looks nasty on one too
[22:58:45:UTC] Spirit : yep
[22:59:03:UTC] DARK MASTER : Oh and yeah I misread what you said before Spirit. My bad.
[22:59:10:UTC] Spirit : Why were the rupees so fat in SS?
[22:59:28:UTC] G-King : I didnt like the way that game looked anyway, the painted effect did not look pretty with Sad textures
[22:59:30:UTC] Spirit : its fine DM
[22:59:31:UTC] G-King : SD
[23:00:02:UTC] Spirit : yeah i wasnt big on the whole mottling effects, especially whn you were standing right next to said mottled object
[23:00:14:UTC] Spirit : worked alright for distance but close up was just not nice
[23:00:21:UTC] DARK MASTER : I didn't mind how SS looked, but I freaking hated the ending and general structure of the game. No sense of freedom.
[23:00:27:UTC] Blue Canary : TMBG fans are probably the nerdiest fanbase of any band that doesn't write songs about nerd stuff.
[23:00:44:UTC] DARK MASTER : Keep in mind, I also had gotten Skyrim when I got my two copies of Skyward Sword.
[23:00:56:UTC] Spirit : SS was just a missed concept, they made some iffy decisions
[23:01:01:UTC] G-King : I hated that it didnt go into anything we wanted an origin of in OOT
[23:01:08:UTC] Blue Canary : Photo of guy recording TMBG concert with a 3DS.
[23:01:22:UTC] G-King : Volvagia, Bongo Bongo. Even Ganondorfs explanation
[23:01:30:UTC] Spirit : I cant remember the last time a Zelda game told a story that was actually needed
[23:01:56:UTC] Blue Canary : I saw a guy with a Zelda/Doctor Who crossover shirt.
[23:01:57:UTC] G-King : WW I think or TP
[23:02:03:UTC] Spirit : ALBW felt like filler, SS felt pointless
[23:02:13:UTC] Spirit : yeah WW or TP i'd say too. WW was brave
[23:02:39:UTC] G-King : AlBW makes no sense at all
[23:02:47:UTC] DARK MASTER : This kid I knew (Jacob Heward) got so got so upset with me when I wouldn't agree Skyward Sword was the greatest Zelda game to exist. I think SS has a lot of good things, and it did somethings like the economy really well, but I certainly do not think it is the best Zelda game ever KEK.
[23:02:48:UTC] Blue Canary : Is everyone ignoring me.
[23:02:52:UTC] Spirit : ALBW was just not necessary.
[23:02:52:UTC] G-King : Ganon was blown up in ALTTP
[23:03:11:UTC] G-King : Jacob was on this forum you know
[23:03:24:UTC] HeroOfHyrule64 : replied to thread Should Atheism be implemented into Zelda Games?
[23:03:25:UTC] G-King : went by the name of JucieJ
[23:03:26:UTC] Blue Canary : Is everyone ignoring the fact that I saw a guy with a Zelda/DW crossover shirt.
[23:03:27:UTC] Spirit : SS = worst 3D Zelda for me and a fair few 2D games do a better job at being better games too for me
[23:03:37:UTC] DARK MASTER : No, not JJ.
[23:03:43:UTC] DARK MASTER : Someone else KEK.
[23:03:50:UTC] Spirit : DW- Doctor Who, Blue?
[23:04:40:UTC] Blue Canary : Yeah.
[23:04:45:UTC] Blue Canary : It was cool.
[23:04:50:UTC] Spirit : nice =]
[23:04:52:UTC] DARK MASTER : Something about the name "Jacob" makes you predisposed to be the biggest Zelda Skyward Sword fan in the Seven Kingdoms.

Shortly after the last statement, DARK MASTER discovered he was banned from the shoutbox and never was given a reason why. He tried for five days to find something out about this and was unable to get any kind of information at all. Given this complete lack of communication about this issue, I feel suitably convinced that this problem is being ignored by the staff and that I need to bring it up here.

I can see how some of what he said can be seen as somewhat on the rude side. But I don't think it warrants a full, unannounced shoutbox ban. I think a solid statement from a mod right there in the shoutbox of the effect of "can we not do this please?" would have sufficed. I'm absolutely certain the issue would have been instantly dropped then and there, no questions asked. The goal is to diffuse issues, not lash out and seek vengeance-justice (which isn't justice).

In context there is a fair amount of complaining about people (as well as a lot of other spamming and other morally questionable activity) that goes on frequently in the SB, so outing this single example as ban-worthy comes across as hypocritical when so many other cases are dismissed as not worth the time to do anything about.

Needless to I think this SB ban should be immediately removed given the only conversation he had on the day in question, quoted above, cannot support a full shoutbox ban. I also think that in the future all SB bans should be made only when deemed absolutely necessary by a consensus of the moderators as a whole with a very clear reason given to the person receiving the shoutbox ban, citing the justification as to why. And that any shoutbox ban that fails to meet these basic requirements should be immediately removed, no questions asked.

Considering that removing bans requires access to the ACP, and the SB interface currently lacks banlists and unban buttons for staff with SB moderation access, SB bans should only be utilized when absolutely necessary, and when several mods agree it is necessary and never done on a whim or for personal reasons that fall outside moderating duties.
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
I only found out about this the other day so I don't really have any idea what went on. I don't know if that was why he was SB banned, but I don't see anything here to warrant a ban. Like I said though, someone will have to shed more light on the situation.
 
I don't think you always need a consensus to SB ban. In general it's what we do for any infraction or even warning, but it's not always practical because we aren't always online at the same time. Sometimes it's obvious a ban is needed as well. I do agree it should be handled with a verbal warning first though.

If Mods could be able to manage SB bans, ie unbanning people, it would be helpful since moderating is supposed to be our job anyway.

DM did pm me about this but mods really can't do anything about SB unbanning at the moment.
 

Jimmu

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
I completely agree that a shout box ban was not deserved in this situation.

Most of the staff team were not made aware of this ban (before or afterwards) until it was later brought to our attention (I'm still not 100% sure who placed the ban as the person has still not communicated it) and despite my requests and queries, since then nothing has been done to resolve this.

So I'll ask here now. Could @The Worst Memer Ever - Of All Time™™™, @Locke, @Repentance or @Djinn please remove the ban. Thank you.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
Alright, guys. While I did get DMs Skype message this was during a time of inactivity and it slipped my mind. We have been discussing it in the staff chat to get to the bottom of it and nothing has really been done. So, unless another admin has already done it, I'll remove the ban now.
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
I only found out about this the other day so I don't really have any idea what went on. I don't know if that was why he was SB banned, but I don't see anything here to warrant a ban. Like I said though, someone will have to shed more light on the situation.

Alright, guys. While I did get DMs Skype message this was during a time of inactivity and it slipped my mind. We have been discussing it in the staff chat to get to the bottom of it and nothing has really been done. So, unless another admin has already done it, I'll remove the ban now.

scooby_doo.jpg


It looks like the Scooby Doo chat have another mystery on their hands!
 

Ronin

There you are! You monsters!
Forum Volunteer
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Location
Alrest
What exactly was DM SB-banned for in the first place?

There was absolutely nothing incriminating in the chat logs above; it's nothing more than a normal conversation.

We have been discussing it in the staff chat to get to the bottom of it and nothing has really been done.

And was a conclusion ever reached?
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
I agree with Garo, the staff chat is no place to reach a logical conclusion. I suggest the modding team meet up outside a Starbucks and converse there, it is a place after all where many screen writers engage in that sixth sense that other mere mortals can't tap into. Perhaps the mod staff could write a screenplay that revolves around the situation at hand, from a film student's point of view I suspect they can come to a logical climax from a critical distance. Good luck guys.
 
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Blue Canary

Your Friendly Neighborhood S***poster
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Location
Right Behind You
Gender
Trash Can
While I said something in the chat that is considered "inappropriate", and may be considered against the rules, at the same time I shall state that it was completely unfair due to the fact that multiple times other users have said things that are just as bad or worse as that, which have then become a conversation that even the admins themselves are a part of.

So either I expect to be unbanned or to see more strict rules and no more of those kinds of conversations taking place in the shoutbox, because at this moment the fact that users such as Dan have said much worse things even in the past week and not even got so much as a 24 hour ban from the shoutbox is disgusting.
 
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