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(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here

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Axle the Beast said:
You posted a video which was insulting towards religion in general, which would have been fine by itself, but actively aimed it in satire at another member's blog. There's seriously zero way that wouldn't have been taken as aimed directly at the person you were parodying. If you didn't actually intend it offensively, you still wrote a post that can only be taken offensively; it was a gross error in tone and presentation.

As I said in prior posts, there's a disconnect formed by former mods and even admins over what is allowed. These people in power left a bad example for those who were members then. This is being remedied by the current administration, but the true "gross error in tone and presentation" was by now gone forum staff who bent the rules to their liking and actively trolled members.

Even if we don't take that into account, who truly knows Kitsu's intentions besides Kitsu himself? I've realized a lot of people complaining about Kitsu's recent MD activity. Why? Because he voices strong opinions many people find unsavory. Despite this, I've never see him call anyone "stupid" because they disagree with him or any insult along similar lines.
 

キラ

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You seemed to have missed the point of my post.

I'm saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming I said. You can say your opinion all you want. It's usually when you direct it specifically toward another person that it's not good. You saying "I'm an atheist" is directed toward no one, so there's no issue with that. Kitsu was not punished for saying he was an atheist. If he did say that, and a person was offended, they would have no grounds on which they can claim it was an intentional insult. Here it was not merely expressing an opinion -- it was parodying another's post, thus giving that person the full right to complain about it. As Locke said, if it had come at another time, it would be fine. But here it was a thinly veiled attempt to mock the other person.

I didn't miss anything. I get that you think Kitsu mocked 43 but it was merely just a parody of his title. He wasn't mocking him. I stated this many times. You're just choosing to ignore it because of your passion about the other side of the argument.
 

Locke

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The disrespect comes from the part of "rather becoming a nazi than a Christian".

The intolerance comes from the act of posting an offensive blog without considering how the original poster would react; another way of saying inconsideration.
I disagree. I'm not really concerned with the content of the video except that it was presented in a disrespectful way toward another member.

Whether or not a matter is offensive isn't a problem. Offensive topics will be discussed at some points in a public forum and so it's only to be expected, even in places meant to be casual and fun like the blog section. The problem is the intent of the poster. If a member intends to offend another particular member or group of members rather than acting to encourage discussion or activity (of the positive kind of course), that's when actions have to and should be taken by the mods.
More accurately, the framing of the matter. I don't care if someone has the worst possible intentions toward DGN. If he or she is contributing positively to the community, even if it's just a front, I don't have a problem. (Though such fronts are often seen through and can still cause problems that have to be dealt with.)

Are you saying that I shouldn't say that I'm an Atheist since it would hurt a Christian's feelings? That's not my problem. If their feelings are hurt, it isn't my fault.
No I'm not saying that. I'm saying you shouldn't say it in such a demeaning way.

many here are assuming that because the blog criticized Christianity, it automatically equates an attack
I noticed that too, and it's a false assumption which is making this issue very difficult to debate properly. Criticize Christianity all you want. There's plenty of that in MD, sigs, blogs, etc. Just don't do it at the expense of another member.

Despite the denials to the contrary, the continued insistence that it was an attack despite a completely and total lack of any proof [1] that it is strongly indicates [2] that this is a religiously motivated attempt at censorship.
[1] The blog's title and timing are proof enough. I don't need to prove Kitsu's motivation because that's not at question here. In fact I believe the evidence points to Kitsu's motivation being unharmful. Unfortunately the action he made was harmful and that's the issue here.
[2] Now you're guessing at our intentions, even though I've given you the same evidence to the contrary that Kitsu has given me regarding his intentions -- my word, and a reasonable explanation for why my actions took the form they did. Again, Kitsu gave me the same thing, and I believe him. You don't have to agree with me or even believe me, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't automatically assume the opposite.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
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[1] The blog's title and timing are proof enough. I don't need to prove Kitsu's motivation because that's not at question here. In fact I believe the evidence points to Kitsu's motivation being unharmful. Unfortunately the action he made was harmful and that's the issue here.
That is not adequate proof. And unintentional harm shouldn't be punished. (In forum context anyway, manslaughter is not an issue here)

[2] Now you're guessing at our intentions, even though I've given you the same evidence to the contrary that Kitsu has given me regarding his intentions -- my word, and a reasonable explanation for why my actions took the form they did. Again, Kitsu gave me the same thing, and I believe him. You don't have to agree with me or even believe me, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't automatically assume the opposite.
Um... no. I'm not. Not the mod's anyway in this particular statement. You took what you quoted out of context. The sentence immediately after you cut it off said it was the non mods who appeared to have this agenda.
See the actual post, with cut context pointed out:
Despite the denials to the contrary, the continued insistence that it was an attack despite a completely and total lack of any proof that it is strongly indicates that this is a religiously motivated attempt at censorship. There is no proof of anything was wrong. The non-mods arguing for his punishment, other than 43 himself, were not eye-witnesses and are basing it entirely on their own presumptions and not actual evidence. Given the subject, the religious motivation is undeniable.

Though I will say here now that there appears to be a mod agenda at work. There is no proof of wrong doing, no proof of intent. Yet insistence on punishment. This is indicative of a personal agenda of some sort. Regardless, you have no case. You cannot prove your claims. And your "evidence" is circumstantial and proves nothing and is increasingly ridiculous that you keep thinking it is valid.
 
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That is not adequate proof. And unintentional harm shouldn't be punished. (In forum context anyway, manslaughter is not an issue here)
If the content of the message and the context in which it were posted are not proof enough of how the post impacts the community, then nothing is and nothing can ever be moderated at all. Which, I shouldn't need to say, wouldn't be good. Your notion of how a moderator should determine when and when not to reprimand a member isn't even unsustainable; it's not even usable. Your expectations basically demand that there is no moderating at all.

Don't correct this post saying "that's not what I mean". I know it isn't. I know it's not what you intend to say. But the fact of the matter is you're not thinking it through before you make these criticisms; what you ask for does demand there be no moderating, whether you realize or intend that or not.
 

Emma

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If the content of the message and the context in which it were posted are not proof enough of how the post impacts the community, then nothing is and nothing can ever be moderated at all. Which, I shouldn't need to say, wouldn't be good. Your notion of how a moderator should determine when and when not to reprimand a member isn't even unsustainable; it's not even usable. Your expectations basically demand that there is no moderating at all.
It was openly stated that the content was not the problem. That means the context is all that is left. And the context is not proof of anything.
 
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It was openly stated that the content was not the problem. That means the context is all that is left. And the context is not proof of anything.
The context indicates that the blog was directed at 43. As I stated earlier this is the only possible interpretation of the post. If Kitsu really did not intend that -- and I can't even begin to describe how much I do not buy that -- then his blog was badly-composed and was destructive and directly offensive to another member through his oversight. Context is clear of not just "anything", but exactly and only one thing: It was offensive.
 
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The context indicates that the blog was directed at 43. As I stated earlier this is the only possible interpretation of the post. If Kitsu really did not intend that -- and I can't even begin to describe how much I do not buy that -- then his blog was badly-composed and was destructive and directly offensive to another member through his oversight. Context is clear of not just "anything", but exactly and only one thing: It was offensive.

How many times do I have to explain this? The blog was not direct at him, it was inspired by his blog, of course, but I wasn't aiming it at him. It was aimed at an idea, a philosophy, that 43 happens to subscribe to. Criticizing an idea =/= attacking a person. So please, stop with this nonsense about attacking/aiming at 43. Whether it was "offensive" is meaningless because it wasn't attacking him. If I posted a blog personally calling out 43 and attacking his character, then this would make sense, and I would definitely be in the wrong. However, I did not do that. Stop equivocating between critique of an idea inspired by a blog title and attacking a member's character.
 
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How many times do I have to explain this? The blog was not direct at him, it was inspired by his blog, of course, but I wasn't aiming it at him. It was aimed at an idea, a philosophy, that 43 happens to subscribe to. Criticizing an idea =/= attacking a person. So please, stop with this nonsense about attacking/aiming at 43. Whether it was "offensive" is meaningless because it wasn't attacking him. If I posted a blog personally calling out 43 and attacking his character, then this would make sense, and I would definitely be in the wrong. However, I did not do that. Stop equivocating between critique of an idea inspired by a blog title and attacking a member's character.
I didn't. If you're going to ask me to stop misunderstanding you, you should bother to understand me first.

It doesn't matter whether you intended to direct it at him or not. It was directed at him via the way you posted it. There is no other way it reads. Your intent to offend him isn't even relevant; the post is harmful via its construction and the context and timing in which it was posted. If you'd posted that same video at another time in a different way, there would have been no issue. Locke said as much himself. You're not understanding the issue.
 

Emma

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I didn't. If you're going to ask me to stop misunderstanding you, you should bother to understand me first.

It doesn't matter whether you intended to direct it at him or not. It was directed at him via the way you posted it. There is no other way it reads. Your intent to offend him isn't even relevant; the post is harmful via its construction and the context and timing in which it was posted. If you'd posted that same video at another time in a different way, there would have been no issue. Locke said as much himself. You're not understanding the issue.
So... you essentially don't care what anyone thinks or feels? You don't care if no one was actually harmed by anything. Your entire argument is all about just wanting to punish people no matter what. No matter what the circumstances. No matter the context. No matter what actually happened. I don't think you'd agree to this no matter how proven it is that nothing wrong was done. Even if all the mods agree it was unwarranted. You've been nothing but insulting in all your posts here. You accused me of not wanting moderation at all and I never said that.
 
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So... you essentially don't care what anyone thinks or feels? You don't care if no one was actually harmed by anything. Your entire argument is all about just wanting to punish people no matter what. No matter what the circumstances. No matter the context. No matter what actually happened. I don't think you'd agree to this no matter how proven it is that nothing wrong was done. Even if all the mods agree it was unwarranted. You've been nothing but insulting in all your posts here. You accused me of not wanting moderation at all and I never said that.
It makes no sense for you to criticize the moderators of judging a statement of opinion which was a criticism as an attack or insult -- which isn't what happened but it is what you're saying did -- and then turn around and tell me I'm insulting you or anyone because I criticize your argument.

If it could be proven that Kitsu were being rude on purpose, then that would matter. But you don't need to intend to be rude to end up being rude. If someone joined the forums who was totally used to cussing and insulting people all in good fun and totally unfamiliar with the notion that it offends people, and did that here, he'd probably get reprimanded too... because his posts would be rude. Kitsu claiming he didn't intend to be rude doesn't matter in this case; it's a problematic blog regardless.
 

Emma

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But you don't need to intend to be rude to end up being rude.
You're being very, very rude in your posts here. You probably don't mean to. But... you just said that doesn't matter. So... does that mean you need to be infracted? By the very reasoning you are arguing that Kitsu should be, you should be as well.
 
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I didn't. If you're going to ask me to stop misunderstanding you, you should bother to understand me first.

It doesn't matter whether you intended to direct it at him or not. It was directed at him via the way you posted it. There is no other way it reads. Your intent to offend him isn't even relevant; the post is harmful via its construction and the context and timing in which it was posted. If you'd posted that same video at another time in a different way, there would have been no issue. Locke said as much himself. You're not understanding the issue.

No, I understand the issue, and I understand what you're saying. It's just that what you're saying is wrong. As has already been pointed out several times, the same thing has been done with other topics before. It's just because religion is involved that people are upset. It's special pleading. "My religion is being criticized, remove the post", is what it boils down to.
 
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No, I understand the issue, and I understand what you're saying. It's just that what you're saying is wrong. As has already been pointed out several times, the same thing has been done with other topics before. It's just because religion is involved that people are upset. It's special pleading. "My religion is being criticized, remove the post", is what it boils down to.
Except no one, moderator or otherwise, is taking issue with your opinion or even your statements regarding religion. As has been pointed out multiple times.
 
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Except no one, moderator or otherwise, is taking issue with your opinion or even your statements regarding religion. As has been pointed out multiple times.

Taking issue with my statements regarding religion is literally the reason we're even talking about this. Not only did 43 take serious issue with it, JuicieJ was been very vocal about his issue with my statements on religion, and has made passive-aggressive replies to some of my threads. Even if the case isn't that moderators aren't, you're just... wrong. People have. Especially in regards to my blog.
 
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