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New Trident Theory

basement24

There's a Bazooka in TP!
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Location
Ontario, Canada
LCT is just a case of cashing in on the Zelda franchise name in order to sell a Wii peripheral. Miyamoto himself said he tried to get his team to come up with a side story to TP, but it wasn't coming about so he "ultimately suggested that we make a game based on the Twilight Princess that utilized the Wii Zapper." He even stated that in test audiences, no one commented on how it wasn't Zelda. Whether or not he meant it didn't play like a traditional Zelda game, orif he meant it wasn't intended to be a Zelda game is up for debate I suppose.

You can read the whole Miyamoto / Iwata interview here:
http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/crossbow/vol1_page1.jsp

One could argue that perhaps LCT takes place after TP because Link doesn't have his sword. It could have been what he set out to do when he left Ordon in the TP end credits. Of crouse, the canonisity of it seems off due to the pop-up targets placed in odd places such as the City in the Sky and the Arbiter's Grounds. I suppose Link could have done so, and then shot them all down, but really, it's questionable. Plus the reformation of Stallord is questionable considering his demise. Given all this, but more specifically what Miyamoto stated in the interview, I would say LCT is supposed to be nothing more than a fun game utilizing the Zelda world.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
This is truly amazing. You are calling me stubborn when youre not even reading my posts anymore. Ive said a few times now, I DON'T THINK SSB/CD-I/SC ARE CANON BUT IVE MET PEOPLE WHO DO.

These items include his hero's clothes and his bow as I have said previously and we know it doesnt take place during because there is no break in gameplay subsantial enough.

I have infact met a fair number of people who think these game are canon and why not they fit in the storyline perfectly (intended or not) and are Zelda games (THEY MAY NOT BE NINTENDO CANON BUT THEY COULD BE IF THEY DECIDE TO)

"Bosom Oak is NOT a Zelda universe character, so, I pretty much killed your theory."
Who said that? Show me evidence as to who said that and when (apart from yourself) cause I think youre disregarding your own point about using EVIDENCE as he is in the zelda world in a zelda game so why is he not a zelda character?

Now can somebody please discuss the Trident Theory which I think despite some accidental mistakes in his reasons is pretty solid.
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Location
Portugal
I was just being sarcastic when I mentioned SSB and the CD-i games.
In case you didn't know, sarcasm's a *****, on the internet.
Did you read basement24's post?
Shigeru said that LCT is just composed of scenes TAKEN from TP, not AFTER TP.
And about TBF, the game doesn't have a story, nor anything to make it canon!
This is turning into a really stupid arguing cause you just can't seem to admit the facts and say the same thing over and over again, post after post
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
Maybe Im repeating my points because youre not reading my points and thowing the same things back at me (for example, you said Bosom Oak is not a canon character and so TBF is not canon, I said give me evidence and you responded with TBF is not canon so youve not answered my point.

I read his post and the game is made using the stages from TP but that doesnt mean they cant turn round and say it takes place after as he also says they were trying to give it a story.

What was the point of being sarcastic at any point as I clearly said I dont believe they are involved so that was completely pointless.

I agree with Basement about the targets and Stallord but overall gameplay has to come ahead of the story and its not really a shooting game if there are no targets. Ive thought about Stallord and all I can think of is that theyre may be more than one or the twilight and evil energy of Zant and Ganon was still strong enough to resurrect Stallord in Hyrule Field or a combination of both.

It's probably just me but I like to put every Zelda game in the timeline no matter what it is unless its obviously not involved in any way (CD-I's)

So to try and start something on the Trident Theory, Alter why do you believe the comic series is canon and what do you believe happens to Ganon before and after FSA.
 

basement24

There's a Bazooka in TP!
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Location
Ontario, Canada
It's interesting that the Valiant Comics are included, but no other non-gaming material.

I assume the inclusion of the Valiant comics might have something to do with the fact that they have the "Official Nintendo Licenced Product" seal on the covers. By definition of the times they were created in, they were an extension of LoZ / AoL.

They were also somewhat an extension to the animated series though. In the end credits of that series, it was licenced by Nintendo, although the Seal wasn't given, but copyright notices marked it a Nintendo product. I would say that if you are going to include the Valiant series, then the animated series should be included as well. Although I know most people don't want to include it mainly on the basis that it was not well done, and the stories were a bit hokey.

That, or people just don't usually include anything that's not a Nintendo produced game. (Which is more the norm I would say.)
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Location
Portugal
.
Ive thought about Stallord and all I can think of is that theyre may be more than one or the twilight and evil energy of Zant and Ganon was still strong enough to resurrect Stallord in Hyrule Field or a combination of both.

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
You are running out of ideas and start making absurdous claims without a single little proof.
Zant was dead, and so was Ganondorf and Stallord.
Period.

EDIT: In what concerns the Valiant comics: they are more like a continuation of the TV series, not the games
 
Joined
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Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
Im losing my pateince with you Skull Kid, youre coming across as very aggressive, how would you like it if I came onto your timeline said it was all wrong and that all your explanation were stupid without actually giving reasons. Move on man Im trying to get people to talk about Alter's theory and you keep bringing this back up.

We are talking about a fantasy world in which magic is prominent and youre discounting that evil magic (which wouldnt just go away in an instant) could resurrect stallord AGAIN (thats why you fight him the first time, MAGIC) Stallord is an undead creature (you might not have noticed but hes got no flesh or organs) in Twilight Princess so why cant he come back in LCT (canon or not) and as ive said before that the evil influence wouldnt just dissapear cause they are dead there are things called consequences and aftermaths to events.
If youre that bothered about this start a new thread called Tingle's an idiot and this is why his ideas are ridiculous and spout your pointless argument there.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
Im losing my pateince with you Skull Kid, youre coming across as very aggressive, how would you like it if I came onto your timeline said it was all wrong and that all your explanation were stupid without actually giving reasons. Move on man Im trying to get people to talk about Alter's theory and you keep bringing this back up.

As I recall, this argument that you two are having was brought up as a result of the trident theory so this makes it a relevant conversation. Also, Skull Kid has given you reasons for why the games aren't canon, you're the one making up reasons as to why they could be.

You guys were discussing a certain character not being an actual Zelda character in TBF so the game isn't canon. You suggested that without anyone stating that he isn't a Zelda character doesn't mean he isn't one. That's a terrible argument. The Zelda series never says anything about the Mushroom Kingdom or Mario but there are plenty of easter eggs. Does this mean that Mario lives in the Zelda universe? No. Similarly, because the games don't mention Mario verbally isn't evidence that he could live in the Zelda universe. Lack of evidence is not evidence, in this case.

We are talking about a fantasy world in which magic is prominent and youre discounting that evil magic (which wouldnt just go away in an instant) could resurrect stallord AGAIN (thats why you fight him the first time, MAGIC) Stallord is an undead creature (you might not have noticed but hes got no flesh or organs) in Twilight Princess so why cant he come back in LCT (canon or not) and as ive said before that the evil influence wouldnt just dissapear cause they are dead there are things called consequences and aftermaths to events.
If youre that bothered about this start a new thread called Tingle's an idiot and this is why his ideas are ridiculous and spout your pointless argument there.

Ganondorf was dead and so was Zant at the end of TP. Without any story to explain how Stallard would have been ressurected, it's safe to assume that we're not meant to believe he was and that this is just a gameplay choice. If it was meant to be canon then a reason would have been given to him being alive (along with any story whatsoever). It was just an evil they chose to use, nothing more.
 
Joined
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Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
I give up on this argument as youre just trying to drown it out, In my opinion every Zelda game is canon and so I will always believe that those games are canon no matter what anybody on this board says and if your motive was to change my mind then just give up now. It works and unless it is in a game proven to be otherwise Ill always believe it.
 

the walrus cat

the walrus who was a cat
Joined
May 12, 2009
As I recall, this argument that you two are having was brought up as a result of the trident theory so this makes it a relevant conversation.
That is true, that this conversation did start because of Alter's time line, but are you sure it's %100 relevant? This threads is becoming, mainly, what games are canon and what games aren't, which doesn't really change this Trident theory.

Tingle you've said that you wanted to just stop arguing, so maybe you should stop posting back to skull kid and end this pointless arguement.;)
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Putting FSA in between the parts where we see ganon as a human and as a pig guy is a good idea for FSA's placement. Well, that's what I think.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
to be fair walrus cat my last post was me trying to end the argument but yes I believe FSA is alot more important than some people give it credit for as I believe it splits (not literally) between Ganon/dorf and Demon King Ganon with every game with Ganon with the trident in it coming after FSA which would mean ALTTP, OOX, LOZ/AOL, LA (Nightmare has trident) all come on the same side of the timeline as FSA

I just thought would this mean that these games take place in the Child Timeline because of Twinrova being in OOX (figuring as a key plot point which cant be ignored)
 
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the walrus cat

the walrus who was a cat
Joined
May 12, 2009
to be fair walrus cat my last post was me trying to end the argument but yes I believe FSA is alot more important than some people give it credit for as I believe it splits (not literally) between Ganon/dorf and Demon King Ganon with every game with Ganon with the trident in it coming after FSA which would mean ALTTP, OOX, LOZ/AOL, LA (Nightmare has trident) all come on the same side of the timeline as FSA

I just thought would this mean that these games take place in the Child Timeline because of Twinrova being in OOX (figuring as a key plot point which cant be ignored)
Yes, it most likely would mean that. Koume and Kotake WERE gone for a long time in what we've seen, it is possible the ones in Termina ARE the twinrova, and then they popped back up around (most likely a bit after) alttp (notice the mastersword is in the lost woods as we have seen in tp, which is certainly on the child-line).

Hope that might help placement alter.;)
 

Alter

www.zeldainmypocket.com
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Point blank, On Your Six.
Wow... I'm gone for one week, and now we're talking about what is/isn't canon? I'm ashamed that you guys let it get so far out of hand.

Now let's redeem this topic, and bring it back on course.
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Location
Portugal
to be fair walrus cat my last post was me trying to end the argument but yes I believe FSA is alot more important than some people give it credit for as I believe it splits (not literally) between Ganon/dorf and Demon King Ganon with every game with Ganon with the trident in it coming after FSA which would mean ALTTP, OOX, LOZ/AOL, LA (Nightmare has trident) all come on the same side of the timeline as FSA

I just thought would this mean that these games take place in the Child Timeline because of Twinrova being in OOX (figuring as a key plot point which cant be ignored)

I also thought about that, the fact that FSA is much more important than it seems.
Also, in my opinion, OoX fit much better after LA than after ALttP.
And, LA is STILL a sequel to ALttP, since Nintendo said it was back in the day, and since that, they never said it wasn't a sequel anymore.
FSA clearly explains how Ganon got the Trident of Power, and that it gave him even more dark powers.
Pretty much every game after Ganondorf completely turns into Ganon(i.e. without allowing him to revert back to Ganondorf, presumably because his physical form's dead(as seen at the end of TP and WW) has him wielding the Trident.
The fact that Dehtl's Ganon form also has a Trident, just helps to strenghten my fact, because, Ganon in ALttP also wields it, and, to support back, Dehtl also assumes the form of Aghanim(Ganon's pawn in ALttP) and Moldorm(along with the boss of the first dungeon also being a Moldorm) wich was also a boss of ALttP.
There are NO other references to any of the Oracle's games, and neither LoZ or AoL.
 

Alter

www.zeldainmypocket.com
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Point blank, On Your Six.
Let me state that the reason I placed the comics in there is because I have pretty good reasons to believe that they're canon.

First off, LoZ/AoL Link was not from Hyrule. This is stated in the instruction manuals. There are many other factors, but in the end, everything adds up. Also, it's not really related to the TV series. It has very little similarities if you read it.

I should also add that the wiki has pretty much removed the non-canon labels from the comics, as there is no reason to state that they aren't canon, as Nintendo has never commented on them.
 

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