My Zelda Timeline

[Locke]

Ganondorf and Ganon are one and the same. There is nothing confirming that Ganondorf is mortal, sorry.

I meant Ganondorf (in Gerudo form, without ToP or Trident) is mortal, as proven in WW as Pinecove pointed out, while Ganon (Ganondorf transformed into a beast via ToP/Trident) can survive death as shown in AoL, OoX, AST, and possibly by his existance in LoZ.

I think the Wind Waker takes place some time after Twilight Princess. And while Link is saving Termina, his past self is in the Chamber of the Sages waiting to become the Hero of Time.

You're arguing against a developer statement using your own statement that starts with "I think" and doesn't contain "because"...

When referring to "the Hero", it is generally the Hero of Time they are talking about.

Who says?

The multiple Ganon theory...........

something wrong with it?

 

[Pinecove]

When referring to "the Hero", it is generally the Hero of Time they are talking about.

Prove it.

He does react to it. He calls it "weak", reaffirming that he thinks it can't defeat hi this time. In wind Waker, he is worried about, because he has been defeated with it twice.

Why would he call it weak when he's been stabbed in the face with it before? Your logic here is very weak.

1. Just because they are portrayed differently does not mean they are not the sages from OOT.

So Princess Ruto died in TP? Even so, how is it that in TWW she is not portrayed (on the glass window) as what she would have been shown in TP?

2. If there were already sages, why did Link have to awaken the sages in OOT?

They were presumably killed off when Ganondorf entered the SR in OoT.

The multiple Ganon theory...........

What's wrong with it?
And while I'm at it, you failed to answer the question - how does Ganon come back to life, ToP and all, in time for TWW.

Better yet, how does the Triforce of courage split in time for TWW?

And even BETTER YET is that in game text proves the split. This is from the Hylian in the opening of TWW:

It is said, having appeared by crossing time this person was called the Hero of Time, and became a legend in the kingdom. A time later, the kingdom that had been thought to have had its peace returned, again, had dark clouds standing over it. The one who held the evil power, who had been thought to have been sealed forever by the efforts of the hero, revived with no reason.

Though the people waited eagerly for the hero of the Legend to once again appear, the hero had put the country behind him, and journeyed into the flows of time, and never appeared. With no one to protect them, evil began to draw near even the royal palace. The people, finally entrusted the fates of the entire land into the hands of the gods.

Source: http://www.adventureofhyrule.com/tww/twwintrocomment.html

 

[bradley]

So I'm getting a bunch of negative reputation about this (the first one was a gray one, which I suppose means neutral).

You cant just throw your problems somewhere else. And you need to learn how to listen to reason.

Everything I am doing with this timeline is reasoning. And why should I move my "problems" somewhere else? this forum is made for open, polite debate. If you can't even consider an opposing point of view, you cannot listen to reason.

Dude, you just need to accept that your WRONG about the the timeline being similair.

Can you come up with a valid argument instead of just attacking me?

Last time I checked, the split timeline was confirmed before Twilight Princess came out. EDIT: OK I'm wrong it was after but I still believe in a linear timeline. It could have very well changed since then. Although I personally believe in a linear timeline, I am not trying to make anybody believe in a linear timeline as much as acknowledge the possibility of a linear timeline.

I have used nothing but valid arguments. And most of the other people on here just say "I'm right you're wrong so STFU". However, there are some, such as Pinecove and MrMosley, who have made valid arguments, and I respect you for that.

These are perfectly good posts that just state my opinion. And, last time I checked, I haven't broken any rules (mods please tell me if I have) by believing in a linear timeline.

Please stop attacking me for my opinion. If you are going to attack me do it for my conduct. I have always respected other's opinions and ask to be treated with the same respect.

With that, I am going to take a break from split/linear debates for awhile. I will probably come back in a few weeks at most. You can keep posting here if you want. I will still read your posts and consider your arguments. But I will be starting a different thread that will involve some hardcore theorizing on my part. This my also answer some problems you may have with my timeline.

So I will start debating again in the very near future.

See ya later and remember I will still consider your arguments.

But I would prefer that you kept split/linear debates at the thread in my sig.



UPDATE: OK I changed my mind. I'm gonna debate split/linear. The only reason I was asking people to post on the thread in my sig is I wanted to keep all the split/linear debates in one place, but this thread gets way more activity, so I will debate it here too. The other one only gets about a couple posts per week.
But remember this thread is not only about split/linear so if you have any other questions about the timeline post them here.

 

[MrMosley]

TP DOES mention the events of OOT. Remember Link is wearing the clothes of the Hero of Time. The HoT would not be remembered if the adult events of OOT didn't happen.

First problem here, and others have mentioned it. It never states that the hero is the Hero of Time. You stating that it is that hero is merely speculation on your part and perhaps a bit of you trying to make your linear timeline work by saying so.

Quite frankly, the hero, now that we have seen SS, could have been that Link. I do not personally believe so. In fact, I believe the clothes given to Link in TP were child Link's clothes. Young Link did quite a bit to help out various races of Hyrule during OoT. Note that the clothes are also stiched up, possibly to make them more fitting for an adult. There's nothing to prove or disprove this point, however, it is the most likely solution.

Who days that? TP is not about awakening the sages.

Since you brought the Sages up, did you not notice that they were not the same Sages as we saw in OoT? That is because they had not been awakened on the Child Timeline. The Sages were awakened in the bodies of those characters only in the Adult portion of OoT. That is why on the stained glass windows in the Master Sword's chamber in WW have the Sages in their awakened form. This is one instance of in-game proof of the split timeline. Wind Waker proves that its events take place on the Adult Timeline, once the Sages were awakened in their new form. TP proves that the Sages were still in their previous form.

Since you are stating this how does Ganondorf survive for LOZ and ALTTP?

Ganon didn't necessarily survive. Being that I believe LoZ comes after ALttP, there would have to be some indication that he was not destroyed in ALttP, correct? Well, that has not been revealed. Ganon was destroyed using the Silver Arrows in both games. In LoZ, we know he died because he is still dead in AoL. He died the exact same way yet he somehow returned for LoZ, meaning that in ALttP, he did in fact die. The answer to this question is simply that Ganon was revived somehow, and how, well no one knows. But we do know that he was revived.

I guess the thread got hijacked and turned into a split/linear debate after all.

You cannot expect to post a linear timeline and not have it argued against with a split-timeline debate. Considering the split has been confirmed by the developers and all in-game evidence since then has only proven the split-timeline more, and I would say 98% of all theorists take this into consideration and use the split-timeline as their belief, any time you post a timeline such as yours, the thread is likely to end up that way. 2% of the linear theorists here backing up your timeline because it is linear doesn't make for much discussion.

Last time I checked, the split timeline was confirmed before Twilight Princess came out.

Incorrect sir. The split-timeline was first confirmed with Wind Waker. AFTER TP came out, Aonuma once again told fans that it was a parallel to WW, meaning that it occurred in the same location on the opposite timeline. He even went into detail, telling us that the scene at the end of OoT (with Link and Zelda) was Link telling Zelda of what Ganondorf was going to do. Zelda told the King, he kept an eye out on Ganondorf, and when he slipped up and tried to enact his plan, he was caught. The result is the execution scene we see in TP. Again, this was all stated by Aonuma AFTER the game's release.

I am not trying to make anybody believe in a linear timeline as much as acknowledge the possibility of a linear timeline.

Unfortunately, the possibility of that is not possible. Everything about Wind Waker is based off of the events in the Adult portion of OoT. TP doesn't have near as many references to the events of the Child portion of OoT, simply because there wasn't a whole lot that happened. However, the entire plot of Ganondorf being sentenced to death was based on what Child Link told Zelda at the end of OoT, which is a major plot aspect of TP. That is clear, in-game evidence that cannot be contradicted or twisted to make a linear timeline work.

 

[ironknuckle1]

Ganon didn't necessarily survive. Being that I believe LoZ comes after ALttP, there would have to be some indication that he was not destroyed in ALttP, correct? Well, that has not been revealed. Ganon was destroyed using the Silver Arrows in both games. In LoZ, we know he died because he is still dead in AoL. He died the exact same way yet he somehow returned for LoZ, meaning that in ALttP, he did in fact die. The answer to this question is simply that Ganon was revived somehow, and how, well no one knows. But we do know that he was revived.

I think you have a lot of good points in your post especially the one about link's clothes since i hadnt thought about that. But on to what i really was going to say. Ok i can see one way to explain how ganon is ressurected between ALTTP and LOZ. That would be if you stuck OOX in between them. I think i debated this with you somewhere. Because it came down to if the triforce in ALTTP was together just as it was in the beginning of OOX or something to that nature.

 

[MrMosley]

Ok i can see one way to explain how ganon is ressurected between ALTTP and LOZ. That would be if you stuck OOX in between them. I think i debated this with you somewhere. Because it came down to if the triforce in ALTTP was together just as it was in the beginning of OOX or something to that nature.

Nah. Twinrova attempt to resurrect Ganon in OoX. At the end, they sacrifice their own body to bring him back since their ritual was prevented from completion because of Link. Because of this, they could only resurrect a Ganon with no mind. Essentially, it was just Ganon who barely knew anything other than he wanted to destroy stuff. And he know who he was, but other than that, he was nothing. Anyway, Link defeated him, so the resurrection of Ganon was prevented. OoX actually works better after LoZ/AoL, when Ganon is still dead, giving Twinrova reason to try and resurrect him.

To give somewhat of an answer, I'm not sure how many of you have played Ancient Stone Tablets... But in that game, which was only released via satellite download in Japan for the SNES, you play as yourself and are somehow transported to Hyrule a short time (possibly just a few months) after ALttP. In it, you do face Ganon, even though he was destroyed in ALttP. The story was that it was Ganon's spirit that you were fighting and that in ALttP, only his body was destroyed. Now, I don't consider AST canon at all. However, it does give fans some sort of indication that Nintendo made this plot up. Even if the game isn't canon, Nintendo obviously thought of the possibility that in ALttP, Ganon's spirit was still lingering after he had been defeated. I wouldn't personally include this piece of information in any real timeline debate, but it is interesting to note.

 

[ironknuckle1]

Nah. Twinrova attempt to resurrect Ganon in OoX. At the end, they sacrifice their own body to bring him back since their ritual was prevented from completion because of Link. Because of this, they could only resurrect a Ganon with no mind. Essentially, it was just Ganon who barely knew anything other than he wanted to destroy stuff. And he know who he was, but other than that, he was nothing. Anyway, Link defeated him, so the resurrection of Ganon was prevented. OoX actually works better after LoZ/AoL, when Ganon is still dead, giving Twinrova reason to try and resurrect him.

To give somewhat of an answer, I'm not sure how many of you have played Ancient Stone Tablets... But in that game, which was only released via satellite download in Japan for the SNES, you play as yourself and are somehow transported to Hyrule a short time (possibly just a few months) after ALttP. In it, you do face Ganon, even though he was destroyed in ALttP. The story was that it was Ganon's spirit that you were fighting and that in ALttP, only his body was destroyed. Now, I don't consider AST canon at all. However, it does give fans some sort of indication that Nintendo made this plot up. Even if the game isn't canon, Nintendo obviously thought of the possibility that in ALttP, Ganon's spirit was still lingering after he had been defeated. I wouldn't personally include this piece of information in any real timeline debate, but it is interesting to note.

you have some good points. I never thought of ganon as mindless but that pretty much describes exactly what happens. And i just beat Ancient Stone Tablets. But as you said it is not canon so thats why i wouldnt consider in a timeline.

 

[Locke]

When was AST released? Shortly after LttP? Perhaps that was used for the specific purpose of explaining the Ganon inconsistancy back then. But I think that FSA retconned that by providing a second Ganon.
The problem could also be avoided by placing LttP and LoZ on separate timelines, but that still assumes that Ganon can live on after Ganondorf dies, which I suppose is just as bad as the original AST explanation.

 

[MrMosley]

When was AST released? Shortly after LttP? Perhaps that was used for the specific purpose of explaining the Ganon inconsistancy back then.

Well, it wouldn't have exactly explained much of anything considering in AST you defeat Ganon's spirit. So even if it were canon, and did show that Ganon lived on after ALttP, he would have still been completely destroyed, thus not answering any questions as to how he came back in LoZ.

On another note, when LoZ was released for Wii's Virtual Console, the description of the game began with "Ganon has escaped from the Dark World". So, one could take that into consideration and assume that sometime between ALttP and LoZ, Ganon was resurrected, defeated, and placed in that Dark World again, only for him to escape for LoZ later. However, that would provide another inconsistency as at the end of ALttP, the Dark World was to become the Sacred Realm again. So the only thing that would make sense if for some untold story to occur between ALttP and LoZ that Ganon is somehow resurrected, turns the Sacred Realm into the Dark World again, and is simply sealed inside of it rather than him being destroyed.

There are some theorists who I have heard say that LoZ/AoL may have come before ALttP, and that the whole Seal War story would have taken place before LoZ. However, I have proven this incorrect as the most recent retcon of ALttP's story (the GBA release) still has the plot that Ganon was sealed inside the Dark World from the Seal War all the way to ALttP, meaning he couldn't have escaped in between. The whole basis of Agahnim trying to free Ganon from the Dark World in ALttP was because he had been sealed, so really it makes no sense to say that he escaped post-Seal War and pre-ALttP.

But I think that FSA retconned that by providing a second Ganon.

Many theorists believe this, except for me. If there was some more clear evidence or a developer quote stating that it was a different Ganon/dorf, then I could easily believe this. Its not that it would change my timeline at all, so there's really no point in believing it either way. I just don't think there's enough there to assume that there have been more than one Ganon/dorf.

The problem could also be avoided by placing LttP and LoZ on separate timelines, but that still assumes that Ganon can live on after Ganondorf dies, which I suppose is just as bad as the original AST explanation.

I believe the connections between ALttP and LoZ/AoL are far too clear to place them on separate timeline. However, some people do it. I just personally don't believe that is the case.

 

[bradley]

First problem here, and others have mentioned it. It never states that the hero is the Hero of Time. You stating that it is that hero is merely speculation on your part and perhaps a bit of you trying to make your linear timeline work by saying so.

Wait. I'm not allowed to use anything to justify my split timeline now? I'm also positive that this is what the developers intended. Or they could have intended it to be the hero fro Skyward Sword since they were starting to develop Skyward Sword during the late development of Twilight Princess. Maybe the hero in Skyward Sword will get remembered as much as the Hero of Time in the Zelda universe.

Quite frankly, the hero, now that we have seen SS, could have been that Link. I do not personally believe so. In fact, I believe the clothes given to Link in TP were child Link's clothes. Young Link did quite a bit to help out various races of Hyrule during OoT. Note that the clothes are also stiched up, possibly to make them more fitting for an adult. There's nothing to prove or disprove this point, however, it is the most likely solution.

The light spirit Faron said: "The Hero who long ago saved Hyrule from danger wore these." So it could not be child Link from Ocarina of Time because Hyrule wasn't really in danger during the events of the child portion of Ocarina of Time. It could be from him saving the world from the moon falling in Majora's Mask, however. But I personally believe it was the clothes of Adult Link from Ocarina, which were the same clothes of child Link from Ocarina anyway (spandex DX just kidding XD). I'm sure you wouldn't be so critical if somebody placed Twilight Princess on the Adult Timeline, as long as the timeline was still split.
And the stitching could be because it is hundreds of years old.

Since you brought the Sages up, did you not notice that they were not the same Sages as we saw in OoT? That is because they had not been awakened on the Child Timeline. The Sages were awakened in the bodies of those characters only in the Adult portion of OoT. That is why on the stained glass windows in the Master Sword's chamber in WW have the Sages in their awakened form. This is one instance of in-game proof of the split timeline. Wind Waker proves that its events take place on the Adult Timeline, once the Sages were awakened in their new form. TP proves that the Sages were still in their previous form.

Wait, They all look EXACTLY THE SAME? It could very well be that the sages' physical for is what is shown in Twilight Princess, while the spirits of Saria, Darunia, Ruto, etc. go into the bodies of he sages. What is seen in the Sacred Realm is their spirit. This is what is seen in OoT and WW. However, if everything is meant to be taken literally, then you must assume that the dark interlopers actually looked exactly like Link.
Another possibility is that they look that way only from the Light World/ Twilight and their true forms are seen in the Sacred Realm.

Ganon didn't necessarily survive. Being that I believe LoZ comes after ALttP, there would have to be some indication that he was not destroyed in ALttP, correct? Well, that has not been revealed. Ganon was destroyed using the Silver Arrows in both games. In LoZ, we know he died because he is still dead in AoL. He died the exact same way yet he somehow returned for LoZ, meaning that in ALttP, he did in fact die. The answer to this question is simply that Ganon was revived somehow, and how, well no one knows. But we do know that he was revived.

OK my theory on Ganondorf is that during TP, his body is killed but not completely destroyed, but it is turned to stone in Wind Waker, making his body uninhabitable. so he must find a way back into into the Dark World to re-obtain the Triforce and use the power of the Triforce to to create a new body. In the original Legend of Zelda, Ganon's body is completely incinerated.
This could also explain why Ganondorf's chest is so swelled up in TWW XD (why do people call him fat in WW).

You cannot expect to post a linear timeline and not have it argued against with a split-timeline debate. Considering the split has been confirmed by the developers and all in-game evidence since then has only proven the split-timeline more, and I would say 98% of all theorists take this into consideration and use the split-timeline as their belief, any time you post a timeline such as yours, the thread is likely to end up that way. 2% of the linear theorists here backing up your timeline because it is linear doesn't make for much discussion.

Sorry, I just wanted wanted it to be in one place. I'll probably just redirect here on the other thread. But I'll still debate it on both threads.

Incorrect sir. The split-timeline was first confirmed with Wind Waker. AFTER TP came out, Aonuma once again told fans that it was a parallel to WW, meaning that it occurred in the same location on the opposite timeline. He even went into detail, telling us that the scene at the end of OoT (with Link and Zelda) was Link telling Zelda of what Ganondorf was going to do. Zelda told the King, he kept an eye out on Ganondorf, and when he slipped up and tried to enact his plan, he was caught. The result is the execution scene we see in TP. Again, this was all stated by Aonuma AFTER the game's release.

One can argue since it is just stated by Anouma and not confirmed in-game that it could just be his opinion and that he wants each individual to speculate for themselves. The King would not listen to Zelda (who already knew of Ganondorf's intentions) in the first place. Why would he listen to crazy little princess Zelda now that she's told him of the adventures of her time-traveling friend.

Unfortunately, the possibility of that is not possible. Everything about Wind Waker is based off of the events in the Adult portion of OoT. TP doesn't have near as many references to the events of the Child portion of OoT, simply because there wasn't a whole lot that happened. However, the entire plot of Ganondorf being sentenced to death was based on what Child Link told Zelda at the end of OoT, which is a major plot aspect of TP. That is clear, in-game evidence that cannot be contradicted or twisted to make a linear timeline work.

It is totally possible and I don't believe I have twisted or contradicted anything from any Zelda game. The execution scene in Twilight Princess does not have to happen during Ganondorf's attempted takeover in Ocarina of Time. Just because wind Waker only references the adult portion of Ocarina of Time doesn't mean that the child portion didn't happen. Didn't you just say:

TP doesn't have near as many references to the events of the Child portion of OoT, simply because there wasn't a whole lot that happened.

OK Update. I've came up with some really good supporting evidence of my own.
In Wind Waker Laruto was one of the old sages. It is mentioned that Ganondorf killed her and her spirit is the one that is shown in Wind Waker, this could have happened after Ocarina of Time but before Twilight Princess. Laruto could just be the way her Hylian is understood since the Old language of Hylian is long lost.
How did Ganondorf obtain the Triforce for Twilight Princess?
A Link to the Past tells of Ganondorf being banished to the Sacred Realm in its backstory. How would this happen on the child timeline where he was not banished, and how would the Sacred Realm have become the Dark World?
The sages could have learned their lesson from banishing Ganondorf to the Sacred Realm and instead attempted to execute him.
Once again, I don't expect to and am not trying to "convert" anybody to a linear timeline like me (that would be cool if I did though). I believe the Zelda timeline is based on one's own opinion I am just trying to get people to acknowledge the possibility of a linear timeline and possibly explain how it would play out.

Another update here.
No timeline is without its flaws. You could try every combination of games with no split or as many splits as you want (2,3,5,10) and you would not be able to create a flawless timeline. That is why I said it is up to each person to have his or her own opinion on the timeline.

 

[Locke]

The light spirit Faron said: "The Hero who long ago saved Hyrule from danger wore these." So it could not be child Link from Ocarina of Time because Hyrule wasn't really in danger during the events of the child portion of Ocarina of Time. It could be from him saving the world from the moon falling in Majora's Mask, however. But I personally believe it was the clothes of Adult Link from Ocarina, which were the same clothes of child Link from Ocarina anyway (spandex DX just kidding XD). I'm sure you wouldn't be so critical if somebody placed Twilight Princess on the Adult Timeline, as long as the timeline was still split.
And the stitching could be because it is hundreds of years old.

Link still saved Hyrule, even if it was on a different timeline. It's the same Link, come back from an alternate future in which he saved Hyrule into a new past in which Hyrule didn't need to be saved.

It is totally possible and I don't believe I have twisted or contradicted anything from any Zelda game. The execution scene in Twilight Princess does not have to happen during Ganondorf's attempted takeover in Ocarina of Time. Just because wind Waker only references the adult portion of Ocarina of Time doesn't mean that the child portion didn't happen. ...
OK Update. I've came up with some really good supporting evidence of my own.
In Wind Waker Laruto was one of the old sages. It is mentioned that Ganondorf killed her and her spirit is the one that is shown in Wind Waker, this could have happened after Ocarina of Time but before Twilight Princess. Laruto could just be the way her Hylian is understood since the Old language of Hylian is long lost.
How did Ganondorf obtain the Triforce for Twilight Princess?
A Link to the Past tells of Ganondorf being banished to the Sacred Realm in its backstory. How would this happen on the child timeline where he was not banished, and how would the Sacred Realm have become the Dark World?
The sages could have learned their lesson from banishing Ganondorf to the Sacred Realm and instead attempted to execute him.

Sorry, I don't follow. What does Laruto have to do with anything? Were those two questions at the end directed at other posters, or were you planning on answering them yourself? I still don't understand how Ganon escaped the SR in order for the execution attempt to take place.

 

[Zemen]

@bradley: The BS of WW should be more than enough for you to believe in the split. Since you think the "Aonuma said so" argument sucks, I'll give you the actual game evidence and see if that changes your mind.

The BS of WW goes roughly as follows. I couldn't find word for word BS so this is just a gist of it I'm splitting up into pieces so it's easier to discuss.

1. There was once a prosperous people known as the Hylians who had the power of the gods and was able to hear them speak.
- Clearly this is talking about past Hyrule and the possession of the Triforce in Hyrule.

2. A great evil arose to steal the golden power from the great kingdom.
- Ganondorf trying to steal the Triforce. That's a no brainer.

3. Out of nowhere, a warrior clothed in green came and fought the great evil.
- This is clearly Link and it's easy to assume that since the BS tells us that he came out of nowhere (which the original BS does say) that it refers to Link coming out of his 7 year time travel (for lack of better words) to stop Ganondorf.

4. The boy traveled through time.
- Clearly talking about the Hero of Time.

5. The hero defeated the great evil and sealed it away. The hero disappeared after this.
- In OoT when Link defeats Ganon/dorf, Zelda sends him back to his childhood, but that timeline still exists leaving it without a Link, thus his disappearance in the BS of WW. Also, Ganon/dorf is sealed away in the SR by Link.

6. The great evil escaped his seal and the people prayed for the hero to return but he never showed up.
- Ganon/dorf escaped his seal in the SR and the people wanted the Hero of Time to return but he didn't and that's because the timeline was split when Zelda sent Link back to his childhood so Link doesn't exist anymore in this adult timeline that was created.

The rest of the BS of WW is more about the flood and it literally ONLY discusses the Hero of Time then jumps into WW thus meaning that no hero exists between OoT and WW.

No offense, but by now if you don't believe in the split timeline then you are either extremely stubborn (which is a terrible trait to have as a theorist) or you aren't that great of a theorist to begin with. I'm not making any assumptions either way, I'm just saying that WW proves the split regardless of the number 2 guy in the Zelda world also confirming it.

 

[Locke]

I couldn't find word for word BS

Here it is in case either of you wish to explore it more thoroughly:

人々に語り継がれる神話の中に　こんな話が　あります。
Among the myths passed down by the people, there is the following story.
This is but one of the legends of which the people speak…

その昔、神々の力が眠るといわれた王国がありました。
Long ago, there existed a kingdom where the power of the gods was said to sleep.
Long ago, there existed a kingdom where a golden power lay hidden.

その国は、緑豊かな　美しいところでしたが
That country was a fair place rich in green.
It was a prosperous land blessed with green forests, tall mountains, and peace.

悪しき者に　目をつけられ　神々の力を　奪われてしまいました。
But an evil one coveted and then took the power of the gods.
But one day a man of great evil found the golden power and took it for himself…

悪しき力により王国は、闇につつまれ
Through evil forces, he covered the kingdom with darkness.
With its strength at his command, he spread darkness across the kingdom.

命運ここに尽きたかと思われた　その時
At the time when the hour of doom seemed at hand…
But then, when all hope had died, and the hour of doom seemed at hand…

緑衣を身にまとった若者が　何処からともなく　現れました。
…a youth clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.
…a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.

若者は　退魔の剣をふるい　悪しき者を封じ　王国に　光を取り戻したといいます。
Wielding the blade of demons' bane and sealing the evil one away, the youth is said to have restored light to the kingdom.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light.

時を越えてあらわれた若者を　民は「時の勇者」と呼び　称えました
Having emerged by crossing time, the youth was praisingly called "Hero of Time" by the people.
This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time.

若者の話は、言の葉で語り継がれ　やがて　伝説となった頃…
The youth's tale was passed down, and at length, when it became legend…
The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend…

王国に　再び災いの嵐が吹き荒れました。
Again, a calamitous storm began to blow across the kingdom.
But then…a day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom.

勇者により　封じられたかに見えた　あの悪しき者が
The evil one who seemed to have been sealed away by the hero…
The great evil that all thought had been forever sealed away by the hero…

地の底より　這い出してきたのです。
…crept forth from the depths of the earth.
…once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.

王国の民は、時の勇者が　再び　現れてくれると信じていました。
The people of the kingdom believed that the Hero of Time would appear a second time.
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them.

しかし…　勇者が　現れることはありませんでした。
But… the hero did not appear.
…But the hero did not appear.

邪悪な力を　前にした彼らは　なすすべもなく　ただ祈るばかり
Faced by evil forces, they were at their wit's end, all they could do was pray.
Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods.

ついに、みずからの命運を神々に、ゆだねることにしました。
Finally, they decided to entrust their fate to the gods themselves.
In their last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their future in the hands of fate.

その後　王国が　どうなったのか…　知るものはいません。
What became of that kingdom afterwards…? None remain who know.
What became of that kingdom…? None remain who know.

国の記憶は　消えようとも　伝説は風に乗り　今も息づいています。
Even though the memory of the kingdom vanished, its legend survived blowing in the wind.
The memory of the kingdom vanished, but its legend survived on the wind's breath.

ある島では　男の子が大きくなると　緑の衣を着せ、祝う風習があります。
On a certain island, there is a custom when boys grow up to dress them in green clothes and celebrate them.
On a certain island, it became customary to garb boys in green when they came of age.

草原にわたる　新緑の風を　心にまとい　旋風のごとく　剣をうならせ「闇」を絶つ　あの伝説の若者のように　勇気を知る者になれと　願いをこめ…
Clothed in the spirit of the verdurous wind that sweeps the fields, whirring swords like a whirlwind to suppress "darkness", they are requested to become adepts at courage like that youth of legend…
Clothed in the green of fields, they aspired to find heroic blades and cast down evil. The elders wished only for the youths to know courage like the hero of legend…

 

[bradley]

Okay the reason Twilight Princess is not remembered in the backstory of Wind Waker is It lasted a very short time and never became legend. Nobody knew much of Link in TP save for a few friends, Goron elders, etc.

 

[MrMosley]

Wait. I'm not allowed to use anything to justify my split timeline now? I'm also positive that this is what the developers intended. Or they could have intended it to be the hero fro Skyward Sword since they were starting to develop Skyward Sword during the late development of Twilight Princess. Maybe the hero in Skyward Sword will get remembered as much as the Hero of Time in the Zelda universe.

No one said you couldn't justify anything. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense. First, yeah sure, they "could have" belonged to the hero from SS. But do we know that? Do we have any good evidence to prove this other than that the game comes before TP? No, we don't. I could set here and say that they belong to Link from MC because I put that first but it wouldn't make any more sense than the SS theory. What you should do is look for in-game evidence that supports the idea that they actually belong to someone we are familiar with. I have done so, and came to the conclusion that it is only logical for them to have belonged to Child Link.

Your also trying to say that the clothes belonged to the Hero of Time (aka. Adult Link from OoT), when all the other evidence in the game, such as the Ganondorf plot, backed up by clear explanations from the developers, say that TP comes on the Child Timeline. Your justifications are based on your linear timeline idea and you have one example that could work with your idea, but the fact that all other evidence and proof completely contradicts your idea makes it irrelevant.

Your statement is not a fact, it is your own perspective of who the clothes belong to. Its just like all the people who try to claim that the Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time, or even Child Link from OoT, but that too has no clear evidence to back it up and also completely contradicts TP's placement on the timeline. My statement is also my own perspective, but there is much more evidence to back my perspective up and disprove your's at the same time.

The light spirit Faron said: "The Hero who long ago saved Hyrule from danger wore these." So it could not be child Link from Ocarina of Time because Hyrule wasn't really in danger during the events of the child portion of Ocarina of Time.

You wouldn't consider Child Link going back in time and warning the Royal Family about Ganondorf saving the land? Look at what happened in the Adult portion of OoT. Ganondorf was able to rise to power, overthrow the King of Hyrule, and cause Zelda to have to go into seclusion, BEFORE he was even able to enter the Sacred Realm. Ganondorf's plan was already beginning to unfold, and he was well on his way to taking over Hyrule even without getting the Triforce of Power. By Child Link telling the Royal Family to watch out for Ganondorf, he was stopped. Everything that took place in OoT right before you go and pull the Master Sword out was avoided thanks to Child Link. He DID save Hyrule from danger.

In fact, let's think about the statement more closely. "Saved Hyrule from danger" says to me that someone prevented danger from occuring in Hyrule, correct? If those clothes belonged to the Hero of Time, that statement would not make sense. Adult Link did not save Hyrule from danger, as danger had already happened because Ganondorf had successfully taken over Hyrule for seven years before Adult Link done anything at all. He did not prevent danger from occuring in Hyrule. Adult Link DID save Hyrule from the tyranny of Ganondorf, but "danger" had already fell upon the land long before.

However, this statement works perfectly with Child Link, as he did prevent any danger from happening to begin with. This piece of evidence only further proves my theory.

I'm sure you wouldn't be so critical if somebody placed Twilight Princess on the Adult Timeline, as long as the timeline was still split.
And the stitching could be because it is hundreds of years old.

Twilight Princess doesn't work on the Adult Timeline. Just like Wind Waker doesn't work on the Child. Each game is based off the ending of each side of the timeline and have to go where they are.

Wait, They all look EXACTLY THE SAME? It could very well be that the sages' physical for is what is shown in Twilight Princess, while the spirits of Saria, Darunia, Ruto, etc. go into the bodies of he sages. What is seen in the Sacred Realm is their spirit. This is what is seen in OoT and WW. However, if everything is meant to be taken literally, then you must assume that the dark interlopers actually looked exactly like Link.
Another possibility is that they look that way only from the Light World/ Twilight and their true forms are seen in the Sacred Realm.

The Dark Interlopers scene wasn't even what really happened. It was a vision shown to Link which he based off of people he knew, so that is completely irrelevant. And the Sages are shown at the end of OoT (during the credits) IN Hyrule, so the idea you have about them only appearing as such in the Sacred Realm doesn't work.

One can argue since it is just stated by Anouma and not confirmed in-game that it could just be his opinion and that he wants each individual to speculate for themselves. The King would not listen to Zelda (who already knew of Ganondorf's intentions) in the first place. Why would he listen to crazy little princess Zelda now that she's told him of the adventures of her time-traveling friend.

Just his opinion? Aonuma WRITES the stories of the games. His opinion IS THE STORY. And it is confirmed in-game by the excecution of Ganondorf scene. That entire scene was explained, again by the dude who WROTE the story. I fail to see why you keep ignoring clear evidence like this.

You cannot argue the point that the split-timeline itself has never been confirmed in-game. No game is going to come out and say that the timeline was split. However, Wind Waker clearly is based off of the events of the Adult Timline in OoT, and Twilight Princess is clearly based off the events of the Child Timeline in OoT. We know the timeline is split based on that. There is never going to be a game saying that "on the other side of the timeline "this and that" is going on", or that "back in the day, the timeline split up", because they are alternate strands of events. One timeline has no clue the other exists.

Its just like, tomorrow, if you decided to take a walk, and on that walk you found a lottery ticket and won a million dollars. You could also choose not to take that walk. Well, in one timeline, you would have taken the walk, became a millionaire, and lived a completely different life. On the other, your life would go on being as it was. If you had not taken the walk, you would have no way of knowing the events that would have played out in your life if you did, just like nothing that occurs on the Child Timeline has any proof of what is going on in the Adult.

It is totally possible and I don't believe I have twisted or contradicted anything from any Zelda game. The execution scene in Twilight Princess does not have to happen during Ganondorf's attempted takeover in Ocarina of Time. Just because wind Waker only references the adult portion of Ocarina of Time doesn't mean that the child portion didn't happen. Didn't you just say:

You took one part of what I said and exploited it. Paste the rest of my quote if your going to point it out. It is impossible by the evidence that I have so far given you, while most of what you have said has been your own theories to try and make your timeline work. Again, you have made up nothing but unproven theories, guessing that this happened here and this happened there to try and piece together a linear timeline. You have given little to no hard, in-game evidence or clear indications that a linear timeline is possible. It has all been based off your own made up theories, which is not what you do to prove something is possible.

And this isn't being hard on you or taking a shot at you or anything, but theorists such as myself and others that support the Split Timeline use in-game evidence and developer quotes that are all the same. We don't have to make up storylines to make the Split Timeline work. We simply use what the games and developers tell us and the timeline works. You cannot prove a timeline with "proof" that only exists in your mind alone.

OK Update. I've came up with some really good supporting evidence of my own.
In Wind Waker Laruto was one of the old sages. It is mentioned that Ganondorf killed her and her spirit is the one that is shown in Wind Waker, this could have happened after Ocarina of Time but before Twilight Princess. Laruto could just be the way her Hylian is understood since the Old language of Hylian is long lost.

I hope you are noticing what I am saying so far. You are saying a lot of "could have happened" and "may have happened" statements in your theories. This is the wrong thing to do when there is other evidence that I can say "This DID happen" and "This DOES say this". I am using evidence to disprove a linear timeline, you are using speculation to try and prove one. Evidence overrules speculation.

Now, to answer your above quote... Are you suggesting that Laruto is actually Ruto and that her language makes her call herself Laruto instead? If that's the case, I think you are thinking about it way too hard. The developers wouldn't bury such a plot element like that in the game without revealing it. However, to counter your argument there, what about Fado the Kokiri Sage? If you are suggesting that Laruto is Ruto, then Fado would technically have had to have been Saria, and that would be very inconsistent.

What makes more sense is just to say what the game actually tells us: They are different Sages. Laruto and Fado are not any of the Sages from OoT. Plus, Ruto was the Sage of the Water Temple... Laruto was the Sage of the Earth Temple. Those are two completely different things.

How did Ganondorf obtain the Triforce for Twilight Princess?

No one knows for sure. The Sages say it was by some "divine prank". There is only personal speculation as to how he obtained it. Most people believe that on the Child Timeline, no one had obtained the Triforce yet. However, it is obvious that they did. There is a quote in Majora's Mask that basically says Link lost the Triforce once he left Hyrule. And Child Link DID have the Triforce of Courage once he returned to his child time. For proof, check the ending scene with him and Zelda in the courtyard. The Triforce is clearly on the back of his left hand.

So, there is no clear explanation, only that considering Child Link obviously had the Triforce of Courage once he returned, Ganondorf would have logically had the Triforce of Power at the same time, and Zelda with the Triforce of Wisdom.

A Link to the Past tells of Ganondorf being banished to the Sacred Realm in its backstory. How would this happen on the child timeline where he was not banished, and how would the Sacred Realm have become the Dark World?

You are confused because you are considering Ganondorf being banished in ALttP's backstory as what happened in OoT. Yes, OoT was originally planned to be the backstory in ALttP, but this is no longer true. Ganondorf getting banished to the Dark World during the Seal War is not the events of him being banished in OoT.

The sages could have learned their lesson from banishing Ganondorf to the Sacred Realm and instead attempted to execute him.

In Twilight Princess, it never once says that Ganondorf escaped the Dark World. Equally, it never says he was banished there. And finally, it never says that the Sages were trying to excecute him because he had escaped from some realm that he was banished to. What it does say is this:

His name is...
Ganondorf.
He was the leader of a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule in the hopes of
establishing dominion over the Sacred Realm.
He was known as a demon thief, an evil-magic wielder renowned for his
ruthlessness...
But he was blind...
In all of his fury and might, he was blind to any danger, and thus was exposed,
subdued, and brought to justice.

Ahhh.. you see? The only thing it says that Ganondorf done was invade Hyrule with hopes of gaining control of the Sacred Realm. This clearly implies that he tried to do this and failed. Why would he fail? Because Child Link informed Zelda who informed the King who stopped him. This is what Ganondorf begins to do in OoT just before you go to the Temple of Time to pull the Master Sword out. However, in the Adult Timeline, he succeeds. According to the above text taken from TP, he does not succeed. Once again, this is some clear evidence to support the Split Timeline.

No timeline is without its flaws. You could try every combination of games with no split or as many splits as you want (2,3,5,10) and you would not be able to create a flawless timeline. That is why I said it is up to each person to have his or her own opinion on the timeline.

You are correct. No timeline thus far is without some sort of flaw. What theorists try to do is prove the most possible timeline with the least amount of flaws or inconsistencies, using evidence from the games and developer quotes to support. At the same time, theorists use evidence and quotes to disprove impossible theories, such as the linear timeline idea. It cannot work, and I have debated with many linearists in the past that have all stated that it can but have never given a solid timeline that makes sense.

Almost every linear timeline I see is only backed up by ideas that come from the theorist's head, and they ignore obvious other evidence that supports anything other than their idea. I like how you handle yourself in your debates, but that doesn't mean that you are not included in this group as well. You continue to say that a linear timeline is possible when you ignore developer quotes and in-game evidence that disprove a linear timeline, and that is not what theorizing is all about.