My thoughts on the order of the Oracle games.

[ChargewithSword]

The games come in whatever order you play them in. It dosen't matter if you play Seasons or Ages first, the other will continue accordingly.

Really, I don't believe this to have any effect on the timeline at all. The oracle series' place in what order they occur dosen't mean much when considering an overall timeline with the other games. Oracle games come as they are played, both are given the same final bosses and ending basically once the two are beat in coordination, and yes that ending/plot is important to the timeline, but not the order of the oracle games themselves.

The whole point of Timeline discussion is to find an order Dark. People will keep searching.

Also, why would Capcom make events that could be similar more focused in Seasons? The Twinrova thing is one big thing; they appear in front of you when you go to storm Onyx's tower but not Veran's. That's a big indication that Capcom wanted us to think the games had an order or else they wouldn't make events that are only available to one game even when they are unlinked.

 

[MrMosley]

Now the Oracle games have been considered the thing that can tear the timeline apart because of their lack of a proper order in which you can beat them.

This is the part of your original post that I was mainly talking about.
I wasn't necessarily saying that their order was Ages then Seasons, or Seasons then Ages, just that those two games in particular don't matter to the entire timeline as a whole. Whether you play Ages first then Seasons, or vice versa, dosen't "tear the timeline apart" at all.

With this evidence I conclude my theory that Ages could come before seasons in the timeline.

I would believe this to be true however. Not because of any extensive research I done on the games, but just because this is how I originally played them, and tend to play them whenever I do today. Also, the difficulty of each game is something I do consider when thinking which was intended to go first. Ages seems much easier of a game than Seasons whether when playing either first in the order. Ages is my favorite of the two, therefore I play it mostly. If I complete it, then I go ahead and continue with Seasons just to beat the full game and fight Ganon.

 

[ChargewithSword]

This is the part of your original post that I was mainly talking about.
I wasn't necessarily saying that their order was Ages then Seasons, or Seasons then Ages, just that those two games in particular don't matter to the entire timeline as a whole. Whether you play Ages first then Seasons, or vice versa, dosen't "tear the timeline apart" at all.

When they have an ending that leads into Link's Awakening then they start to break it apart. What came before these two games then and when was the first game.

I would believe this to be true however. Not because of any extensive research I done on the games, but just because this is how I originally played them, and tend to play them whenever I do today. Also, the difficulty of each game is something I do consider when thinking which was intended to go first. Ages seems much easier of a game than Seasons whether when playing either first in the order. Ages is my favorite of the two, therefore I play it mostly. If I complete it, then I go ahead and continue with Seasons just to beat the full game and fight Ganon.

You gotta admit though the developers added a few things to probably make Ages/Seasons order more obvious to us.

 

[MrMosley]

Well personally I don't think' the Oracles led into Link's Awakening. The whole ending with the boat is reason to believe it lightly but when looking at the manuals and such you realize the intention of the continuation. My theory is that LA came directly after ALttP, which is what the game manual implies as well as how the games were released. It tells in the manual of LA how Link left Hyrule to clear his mind because the people were afraid Ganon may return. He needed some space to think about what he would do if this happend, which is why he sailed away and got caught up in the storm.

When Link left Labrynna one would think that Zelda and Impa went with him, as they were from Hyrule as well and it wouldn't make too much sense if they all took separate ways back.

 

[Skull_Kid]

Well personally I don't think' the Oracles led into Link's Awakening. The whole ending with the boat is reason to believe it lightly but when looking at the manuals and such you realize the intention of the continuation. My theory is that LA came directly after ALttP, which is what the game manual implies as well as how the games were released. It tells in the manual of LA how Link left Hyrule to clear his mind because the people were afraid Ganon may return. He needed some space to think about what he would do if this happend, which is why he sailed away and got caught up in the storm.

When Link left Labrynna one would think that Zelda and Impa went with him, as they were from Hyrule as well and it wouldn't make too much sense if they all took separate ways back.

I have to agree with Dark link in this one... I once thought that the Oracles would lead into LA, but it's almost implied that Impa and Zelda return with Link, and you see none of them Shipwrecked

 

[ChargewithSword]

I have to agree with Dark link in this one... I once thought that the Oracles would lead into LA, but it's almost implied that Impa and Zelda return with Link, and you see none of them Shipwrecked

The ending cutscene shows Zelda in Hyrule castle, Link is seen alone in that boat.

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

I think the creators originally intended for them to go in either order in the official timeline. Which one is first in the timeline depends completely on which one you play first.

 

[MrMosley]

The ending cutscene shows Zelda in Hyrule castle, Link is seen alone in that boat.

True. That is in fact the order of the scenes shown at the end of the game. However, the manual itself implies that LA does not come after or have any relation to the Oracles.

Taken directly from the Link's Awakening manual:

Prologue (on pg.3)

Though you fufilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and
destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a
precarious peace. "Who knows what threats may arise from Ganon's
ashes?" the restless people murmured as they knitted their brows and
shook their heads. Ever vigilant, you decided to journey away from Hyrule
on a quest for enlightenment, in search of wisdom that would make you
better able to withstand the next threat to your homeland. Months of
difficult travel passed. After a long and fruitful voyage, you breathed
deeply the sea spray from the deck of the ship that carried you home to
Hyrule. But your homecoming was not to be. Suddenly a squall struck
your ship, and though you valiantly fought the waves, a lightning bolt
reduced your ship to splinters. Your world faded to black as you sink
into the darkness of the storm-tossed.

This clearly states a continuation of the same Link who defeated Ganon, venturing off to clear his mind. Seeing as how the game comes right after ALttP, it easy to see that LA is the sequel.


Now here is the story from the manual of Oracle of Seasons:

A NEW CHAPTER

One day in Hyrule, a strange force drew Link deep within Hyrule castle, where he found the Triforce resting, glittering brilliantly as it awaited him.
"Link... Link... Accept the quest of the Triforce!"
Suddenly, Link was enveloped in a shaft of light, and the next moment, he vanished.
When Link awoke, he found himself in a forest he had never seen...

The manual goes on to tell more about how Link had ended up in Holodrum.

But the point of this is that the LA manual clearly shows a continuation from its previously released title, while the Oracle of Seasons manual tells of a new story. Link is drawn into Hyrule Castle by a "strange force", which implies that he did not recognize the force. It wasn't until he actually saw the Triforce that he realized what force was pulling him to his destiny in the Oracle games, while in LA, Link had already known about the Triforce.

If Link's Awakening were to take place after the Oracle games, then the entire manual prologue of LA wouldn't make any sense. Yes, Link does in fact defeat Ganon at the end of the two Oracle titles, however this all took place in Labrynna/Holodrum, and not Hyrule. The LA manual clearly states that the people of Hyrule were the ones scared of Ganon's return, thus it talks about the events of Link defeating Ganon in ALttP.

 

[ChargewithSword]

Darklink, your story doesn't add up. One question I shall ask you is this. Why is Ganon dead in the Oracle of Ages Timeline AND has the trident from Alttp?

It could be because a boy of Legend happened to say... kill him and lived in Hyrule.
The manuals explain truly nothing except that Link had fufilled the prophecy of defeating Ganon and one explains he still hung around in Hyrule.
Also Link seemingly is known by Zelda during the Oracle games which brings up the question of "why does she know him." In almost every Zelda game that is not a sequel, Zelda does not know who Link even is. Well it seems like he was good ol' chums with the princess.

Another thing is that mark on the left side of his hand, I recall that mark being present in some old Alttp artwork.
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I shall now say the Alttp ending to prove another point.

After defeating Ganon, Link decides to use his wish on the triforce to make everything in Hyrule right once again.

But wait, what happened to the triforce? I can say what could have possibly happened. The triforce was sitting in a temple in three whole pieces that not only could speak through Link's mind. But they didn't even grant a wish when touched; perhaps this is because our hero had already used his wish and the triforce now resides in that temple for whatever reasons.
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This is what I directly say about the manuals.

1 LA Manual) In both Alltp and Oracles, he killed Ganon either way and Oracles actually provides an ingame cutscene that shows him going into a boat. On the other hand Alttp shows him staying with his uncle in Hyrule. The thing is that, Ganon's evil affected Hyrule's princess meaning that if Ganon rose from the ashes because of two servants of his that lived on after his defeat means that the people could be wondering about maybe his other minions.

2 Oracle Manual) You have me on the strange force, but then again the Triforce is an all mighty power so we can't tell how unstable it could me.

 

[MrMosley]

Darklink, your story doesn't add up. One question I shall ask you is this. Why is Ganon dead in the Oracle of Ages Timeline AND has the trident from Alttp?.

The story adds up because the manuals say it does. Really Sword, think about the continuation of the games. Its not that hard to figure out that ALttP was followed by LA, in which its manual talked about Link defeating Ganon. Thats enough to say that LA is a sequel to ALttP, and not the Oracle games. If the Oracle titles were a sequel, the entier LA manual would have been retconned, and it wasn't.

It could be because a boy of Legend happened to say... kill him and lived in Hyrule.
The manuals explain truly nothing except that Link had fufilled the prophecy of defeating Ganon and one explains he still hung around in Hyrule.
Also Link seemingly is known by Zelda during the Oracle games which brings up the question of "why does she know him." In almost every Zelda game that is not a sequel, Zelda does not know who Link even is. Well it seems like he was good ol' chums with the princess.

Another thing is that mark on the left side of his hand, I recall that mark being present in some old Alttp artwork.

Okay. The manual means a whole lot more than some cutscenes. The reason the Oracle titles had those cutscenes is because the GBC could shell em out and have em look nice. If you remember, the entire two Oracle games were full of cutscenes. Just because Link sails away on a boat dosen't mean that he sailed into the storm of LA, especially when the manual states otherwise. That's like saying "Well since Link sailed away on a boat after Wind Waker, I guess that's how he wrecked and ended up being in Link's Awakening."

About the mark on the hand, thats just a symbol of the Hero destined to save Hyrule. The Goddesses' original plan was to have a Hero weild the Triforce of Courage, a Hero who would save Hyrule throughout the generations. That is all the mark means, that Link is a Hero. Once again, that would be like saying "Well since Link in the Oracles has a Triforce mark on his hand, I guess that means that OoT leads into LA, wait maybe WW leads into it...no no, maybe AoL leads into it! No, maybe..." the list goes on. The fact is Sword, that Link has had that symbol on his hand in about every single Zelda title since Zelda 2. It has no symbolism towards timeline continuation. As I stated, it only serves to show his heroism.

I shall now say the Alttp ending to prove another point.

After defeating Ganon, Link decides to use his wish on the triforce to make everything in Hyrule right once again.

But wait, what happened to the triforce? I can say what could have possibly happened. The triforce was sitting in a temple in three whole pieces that not only could speak through Link's mind. But they didn't even grant a wish when touched; perhaps this is because our hero had already used his wish and the triforce now resides in that temple for whatever reasons.

The Triforce in ALttP was setting in the Pyramid in the Dark World, formerly the Sacred Realm/Golden Land. That is the home of the Triforce. In the Oracle titles, the Triforce's location is not directly specified, although it is implied that it is within Hyrule because Link is riding through Hyrule. It shows Hyrule Castle, then goes directly to the Triforce scene. If the developers wanted us to know that the Triforce was in the Dark World/Golden Land as it was in ALttP, I believe they would have shown Link going there.

Link does not "touch' the triforce at all in the opening of the Oracle games. He simply walks up to them. They float in the air and transport him to Labrynna/Holodrum. If he did in fact touch it, it would have granted him a wish. Any time the Triforce is found and touched, it grants the wish to whoever touches it. So since he didn't touch it, there was no wish to grant.

This is what I directly say about the manuals.

1 LA Manual) In both Alltp and Oracles, he killed Ganon either way and Oracles actually provides an ingame cutscene that shows him going into a boat. On the other hand Alttp shows him staying with his uncle in Hyrule. The thing is that, Ganon's evil affected Hyrule's princess meaning that if Ganon rose from the ashes because of two servants of his that lived on after his defeat means that the people could be wondering about maybe his other minions.

2 Oracle Manual) You have me on the strange force, but then again the Triforce is an all mighty power so we can't tell how unstable it could me.

In ALttP, Link destroyed the actual, real, "full" Ganon. Like I said before, the game was full of cutscenes, not text. The cutscenes show a boat, as does many other Zelda titles. That is not proof enough to say that LA is a sequel to the Oracles. Now actual manual text, TELLING the player whats going on, that is a bit more important than seeing a picture and guessing what it means. And the people of Hyrule as stated in the LA manual were not worried about Ganon's minions; they were worried about Ganon himself returning. Link then left, because of them worrying, to clear his mind. That is when he got caught in the storm. It does not state that the Triforce called upon Link to go do something else then got caught in the storm, which is what it would have said if the Oracles were a prequel to LA.

And one more thing that is easily recognizable is the fact that the last boss of LA takes the form of Ganon and Agahnim. You fight both the exact same way as you did in ALttP. Many believe this is because the Dream World which Koholint Island is in is also a part of Link's deam, not just the Windfish's. You do face Ganon in the Oracles sorta like you face him in ALttP, however Agahnim being a part of the Nightmare's transformation is key. Agahnim was in no other Zelda title besides ALttP.

Now that I have proven my point pretty well, as have you held your side very well, it is way too easy to just go with the basics of what we know already (LA was made after ALttP, LA's manual talks about Link defeating Ganon), than to argue an entirely other point just to put a game somewhere in the timeline. I suggest you don't take things like this into too much consideration. All the information you need is there to prove how these games connect. Personally, I see the Oracles taking place AFTER Link's Awakening. In my timeline, they contain an entirely new generation Link from the one in ALttP/LA, however I don't believe it would be a problem to consider them the same generation Link. It is much more probable to consider the Oracles the game after, rather than before, Link's Awakening.