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My New Timeline

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
0. Ok, I'll try to reply using numbers like this

1. No problems with what?

2. LOL. Go to the Library in TMC. All books are written in TWW Hylian, meaning it is the dominant writing system used during that game period. One of the books even says "Triumph Forks"...
As for the alphabet existing in OoT, it was definitely not the dominant writing system, even though it could have existed for that long. TWW implies that they changed the writing system because of the flood.

3. You agree with what?

4. You are wrong. Miyamoto never denied the split timeline. Back in 2002 he even said that TWW followed the adult ending of OoT. And that was way before Aonuma confirmed it in 2006.

5. The same reason for FSA to come in the AT.

6.1. Doesn't matter. It is still surrounded by water, and it is not like that in either OoT or LttP. Also, there are only a few human settlements in FSA Hyrule, implying it is not a continent (like the two continents in AoL), but an island.

6.2. TP states that fragments are only left when someone who is not the true leader of the twili tries to destroy the mirror. Considering Midna was the true leader of the twili, she destroyed it completely.

7. You mean the Four Sword, right? The Four Sword is not the Master Sword! The only time the MS is used to seal Ganon in the SR is in OoT.
Miyamoto never ever confirmed that, I don't know where that is coming from.

8. Explain what you mean, because, in my timeline, there aren't two links coexisting at any point...

9.1.
laintro.png

That's in-game[/i]

9.2. It still makes sense without having to retcon it like you assume.

10. Who?

11. Said what?

12. Ganon was sealed in the Sacred Realm in the Imprisoning War, that doesn't happen in FSA. If I were you, I'd say that the IW happens after FSA, with the Sages (and the maidens from FSA are not sages either) sealing the 4S in the SR...

13. So you are saying that 2 mirrors that work about the same way are actually different mirrors? I see no reason to why that would be...

14. Proof for what?

15. Not true, the MS has been depiced differently in LttP and OoT, yet it was supposed to be the same. Art shouldn't be taken as evidence at all. But when we gather games that have similar artforms together, it forms a very good timeline:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8594/coisahy0.jpg
(the image is too big :P)

16. Exactly. That's what I call 'deflooding'. It reverses the process of the flood. The flood (caused by the goddesses) made land "become" water, while deflooding (caused by trees) made water "become" land. The means they used to do that is debatable, but it is a fact that they have such power.
If the trees can swallow up water or pull the soil up, the MS will eventually come back to surfice...

17. Which is different from the LttP design, which is different from the TP design. Yet all of those are supposed to be the same 'Blade of Evil's Bane'...


2. I suppose I can believe that. I believe that the WW writing was probably in development perhaps. All languages change in order to make more sense.

4. He did deny it, but I don't have the link to the old quote. But I need a link of yours or else it's just like mine.

5. Ah but note how the sages don't seem to be referenced in FSA. As a matter of fact, they have been ultimatly replaced with new sages who don't have any links with the old ones.

6.1 You must check the size of every Hyrule we have visited and noticed how small they are compared to FSA's. For all we know there was an ocean beyond those mountains. Also, are you impling when we were in tribes our continents weren't continents?
Another thing I must note, if the Hyrule in FSA is truly the one we see in the AT then where is Catalia? That is LOZ Link's homeland. If Hyrule is an island persay then that would mean that Catalia doesn't exist.

6.2 Perhaps I'll agree with that.

7. Did you see the ending of FSA? Zelda clearly stated that they were sealing Ganon into the Four Sword. The Four Sword was found in the dark world. They probably had sealed him in the sacred realm somewhere out of game.

8. You say that Alttp link and OOX Link are different. However, then if OOX happened while LA was occuring then that would mean that two Link's were in existance. Now unless your timeline states differently, that would mean that two Links were present in the world.

12. They call themselves maidens but does that mean Saria is not a sage? Does that mean that Ruto isn't a sage? They are basically sages but named differently.

13. Then you will prove me correct that they are the same mirror. They work the same and lead to different or the same place.
Why would a mirror exist to a Dark World that shouldn't exist? The Dark World was purified at the end of WW with the death of Ganondorf. (If it was purified by his death in Alttp then it must be the same for here.)

14. Proof that there are two tridents.

15. True, if we followed art style it would probably make this easiers.

16. Deflooding would not bring a dark tower above to the ground. In fact deflooding would probably make the tower go underground.

17. How do we know that they are the same blade of evil's bane? It never was stated that more or one blades was made at the time.
However if they are the same then their location should also be in question, in WW it was left on Ganon's skull and in TP it was left in a forest. In the adult timeline look at LOZ and Aol, there was no Master Sword there. There was no master sword needed to defeat Ganon, yet in Alttp there was a Master Sword in the forest.
 
Joined
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Location
Hyrule and Azeroth
16. Exactly. That's what I call 'deflooding'. It reverses the process of the flood. The flood (caused by the goddesses) made land "become" water, while deflooding (caused by trees) made water "become" land. The means they used to do that is debatable, but it is a fact that they have such power.
If the trees can swallow up water or pull the soil up, the MS will eventually come back to surfice...
Yeah, but the Deku Tree said that forests had the power to create new land. Land that's being pulled back up isn't new land; it's old land.

So why does Ganondorf become a perfectly shaped pedestal?

Oh and the Leximgard-Skyral timeline doesn't have an explanation for the MS, either. The quote being referred to the zora actually says that his ancestors were GIVEN the blade from a hero.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
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2. I suppose I can believe that. I believe that the WW writing was probably in development perhaps. All languages change in order to make more sense.

2) It is not in development in TMC though. It is the dominant writing system. If TMC comes before OoT, they would have changed the alphabet twice...

4. He did deny it, but I don't have the link to the old quote. But I need a link of yours or else it's just like mine.

4) I'll look for it later today. I have it somewhere...

5. Ah but note how the sages don't seem to be referenced in FSA. As a matter of fact, they have been ultimatly replaced with new sages who don't have any links with the old ones.

5) Exactly my point. There are no Sages at all mentioned in FSA, meaning that game is not the IW.

6.1 You must check the size of every Hyrule we have visited and noticed how small they are compared to FSA's. For all we know there was an ocean beyond those mountains. Also, are you impling when we were in tribes our continents weren't continents?

6.1.1) I did. Hyrule in TP is clearly larger than Hyrule in FSA. And it is not bordered by any ocean. The official in-game map has no seas and if you go all the way to the top of Snowpeak, you'll see mountain all the way into the horizon...

Another thing I must note, if the Hyrule in FSA is truly the one we see in the AT then where is Catalia? That is LOZ Link's homeland. If Hyrule is an island persay then that would mean that Catalia doesn't exist.

6.1.2) A: Land is growing as proven by the Great Deku Tree's quote from TWW

B: Calatia is only mentioned in Valiant comics, which is not canon material.

7. Did you see the ending of FSA? Zelda clearly stated that they were sealing Ganon into the Four Sword. The Four Sword was found in the dark world. They probably had sealed him in the sacred realm somewhere out of game.

7) Yup, and LttP states that Ganon had been sealed directly in the SR after the IW. I'm not disagreeing that the 4S eventually went into the SR, i'm just disagreeing with you on which game is the IW. IMO, FSA doesn't match the criteria to be the IW mentioned in LttP.

8. You say that Alttp link and OOX Link are different. However, then if OOX happened while LA was occuring then that would mean that two Link's were in existance. Now unless your timeline states differently, that would mean that two Links were present in the world.

8)
LOL
I never said that. This is my timeline:
...../-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL
OoT
.....\MM-TP

Link from LttP/LA would have been dead by the time OoX happened...

12. They call themselves maidens but does that mean Saria is not a sage? Does that mean that Ruto isn't a sage? They are basically sages but named differently.

12) The maidens from FSA were never called Sages. Why not calling them sages, if they wanted it to be the IW so much? LttP refers to them as sages after all...

13. Then you will prove me correct that they are the same mirror. They work the same and lead to different or the same place.
Why would a mirror exist to a Dark World that shouldn't exist? The Dark World was purified at the end of WW with the death of Ganondorf. (If it was purified by his death in Alttp then it must be the same for here.)

13) The DW stage in FSA is just a corrupted part of Hyrule, pretty much the same way the Twilight Curtain is over Hyrule in TP...

14. Proof that there are two tridents.

14) I never said that there are 2 tridents. IMO, there is only one trident in FSA, LttP and OoX...

15. True, if we followed art style it would probably make this easiers.

15) Yup, but apparently i'm the only one who does that :P

16. Deflooding would not bring a dark tower above to the ground. In fact deflooding would probably make the tower go underground.

16) i don't get it. Deflooding would make the water level drop, meaning that what was in the bottom of the ocean would rise to the surfice...

17.1. How do we know that they are the same blade of evil's bane? It never was stated that more or one blades was made at the time.

17.1) It heavily implies that the MS from OoT and LttP is the same. The same for OoT and TWW, and the same for OoT and TP.

17.2.However if they are the same then their location should also be in question, in WW it was left on Ganon's skull and in TP it was left in a forest. In the adult timeline look at LOZ and Aol, there was no Master Sword there. There was no master sword needed to defeat Ganon, yet in Alttp there was a Master Sword in the forest.

17.2)
It was not in ganon's skull in TWW. Remember that Ganon became solid stone? It was set in stone the same way it was in LttP.

The MS alone is not good enough to prove in which timeline LttP comes.

Yeah, but the Deku Tree said that forests had the power to create new land. Land that's being pulled back up isn't new land; it's old land.

It is new land in the sense that it still had to be colonized by intelligent settlers. Or that the current inhabitants didn't know it. Like when we say that Cristopher Columbus found New Land by traveling to the West.

So why does Ganondorf become a perfectly shaped pedestal?

Because someone found the legendary MS and decided that it should be placed in a pedestal, maybe??
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
2) It is not in development in TMC though. It is the dominant writing system. If TMC comes before OoT, they would have changed the alphabet twice...



4) I'll look for it later today. I have it somewhere...



5) Exactly my point. There are no Sages at all mentioned in FSA, meaning that game is not the IW.



6.1.1) I did. Hyrule in TP is clearly larger than Hyrule in FSA. And it is not bordered by any ocean. The official in-game map has no seas and if you go all the way to the top of Snowpeak, you'll see mountain all the way into the horizon...



6.1.2) A: Land is growing as proven by the Great Deku Tree's quote from TWW

B: Calatia is only mentioned in Valiant comics, which is not canon material.



7) Yup, and LttP states that Ganon had been sealed directly in the SR after the IW. I'm not disagreeing that the 4S eventually went into the SR, i'm just disagreeing with you on which game is the IW. IMO, FSA doesn't match the criteria to be the IW mentioned in LttP.



8)
LOL
I never said that. This is my timeline:
...../-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL
OoT
.....\MM-TP

Link from LttP/LA would have been dead by the time OoX happened...



12) The maidens from FSA were never called Sages. Why not calling them sages, if they wanted it to be the IW so much? LttP refers to them as sages after all...



13) The DW stage in FSA is just a corrupted part of Hyrule, pretty much the same way the Twilight Curtain is over Hyrule in TP...



14) I never said that there are 2 tridents. IMO, there is only one trident in FSA, LttP and OoX...



15) Yup, but apparently i'm the only one who does that :P



16) i don't get it. Deflooding would make the water level drop, meaning that what was in the bottom of the ocean would rise to the surfice...



17.1) It heavily implies that the MS from OoT and LttP is the same. The same for OoT and TWW, and the same for OoT and TP.



17.2)
It was not in ganon's skull in TWW. Remember that Ganon became solid stone? It was set in stone the same way it was in LttP.

The MS alone is not good enough to prove in which timeline LttP comes.



It is new land in the sense that it still had to be colonized by intelligent settlers. Or that the current inhabitants didn't know it. Like when we say that Cristopher Columbus found New Land by traveling to the West.



Because someone found the legendary MS and decided that it should be placed in a pedestal, maybe??

5. Then how about this, the sages we called wise men once. But then they were changed into sages for the GBA release, another thing is that history is lost in time.
WW pointed that fact out. For all we know, that the details of the war have become fadey.

6. Shrink FSA's map down and add all the areas of the game which were considerably big. Connect every single area and they become bigger than TPs map.
And the in game map is shaped like a tree. There is nothing but mist covering your veiw. Plus no one's vision can reach as far at the ocean when there are mountains in the way.

6.1.2. Land is made new, he says that the forests make new land. He intends to cover old Hyrule in land.
Catalia is a real place according to this map. Excuse the size.

map%20of%20hyrule.jpg


7. Explain the Palace of the Four Sword being in Alttp and how FSA shows Ganon being imprisoned in it. I will not accept the answer "It's just an addition."

8. ..... yea I suppose it could go like that when you think of it. No I am not agreeing with the entire time line or the placement of the games I put on the child time line.
I am agreeeing with Alttp/LA- OOX placement.

12. Were they ever called Maidens in the Japanese versions?

13. Actually the stages have some differences in them that make them different. Objects are placed differently and often there shall be obstacles in your way.

16. Over the years, things end up going under ground. Cities are built upon old cities and mountains above old mountains.

17. Where does it heavily implies this?

18. It was his skull and if removed from his skull we don't know what will happen. A small resemblance cannot mean much.
 
Joined
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Location
Brasil
5. Then how about this, the sages we called wise men once. But then they were changed into sages for the GBA release, another thing is that history is lost in time.

5.1. Well, in LttP they differentiate between Sages and Maidens. It is clearly that they were refering to the maidens in FSA the same way they were in LttP. They were not sages...

And the change only occured in the english version. 'Sage' and 'Wise Man' are actually sinonyms. The same word was used in the japanese...

WW pointed that fact out. For all we know, that the details of the war have become fadey.

5.2. Then how do you explain the fact that there are 6 sages (and this is the word used) buried in the graveyard in Cobble Kingdom in PH?

Also, the 'Book of Mudora' rings any bell?

6. Shrink FSA's map down and add all the areas of the game which were considerably big. Connect every single area and they become bigger than TPs map.

6.1. No they don't. The FSA map is about the same size as LttP's, which is smaller than TP's.

BTW, if you do that with the LA map you'll notice that it is a bigger area than the OoA one. Yet we all know that Koholint was supposed to be only one tiny island...

And the in game map is shaped like a tree. There is nothing but mist covering your veiw. Plus no one's vision can reach as far at the ocean when there are mountains in the way.

6.2. We can see very far though, further than the FSA map...

6.1.2. Land is made new, he says that the forests make new land. He intends to cover old Hyrule in land.

6.3. That doesn't make much sense. How on earth would trees create soil particles??

Catalia is a real place according to this map. Excuse the size.

map%20of%20hyrule.jpg

6.4.
lol
That's a fan-made map

Calatia is only mentioned in the Valiant comic books:
http://zeldawiki.org/Calatia

7. Explain the Palace of the Four Sword being in Alttp and how FSA shows Ganon being imprisoned in it. I will not accept the answer "It's just an addition."

7. It isn't. The 4S was sent to the SR after FSA. That's how Ganon ended up there. OoT is still the IW though, because it is the only game that matches the criteria to be it.

8. ..... yea I suppose it could go like that when you think of it. No I am not agreeing with the entire time line or the placement of the games I put on the child time line.
I am agreeeing with Alttp/LA- OOX placement.

8. That's a start :P
lol

12. Were they ever called Maidens in the Japanese versions?

12. Yes, and a fun-fact: the oracles from OoX were also called Maidens in the original japanese...

13. Actually the stages have some differences in them that make them different. Objects are placed differently and often there shall be obstacles in your way.

13. My point is that the DW from FSA looks more like the twilight covered Hyrule from TP than the DW from LttP.

16. Over the years, things end up going under ground. Cities are built upon old cities and mountains above old mountains.

16. Then an archeological excavation could have easily found stuff...
Still, I don't see how that could have happened...

17. Where does it heavily implies this?

17. In the game text...

18. It was his skull and if removed from his skull we don't know what will happen. A small resemblance cannot mean much.

Aonuma confirmed that Ganon is completely dead after TWW! So removing the sword wouldn't bring him back. Let me go look for the quotes.
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
5.1. Well, in LttP they differentiate between Sages and Maidens. It is clearly that they were refering to the maidens in FSA the same way they were in LttP. They were not sages...

And the change only occured in the english version. 'Sage' and 'Wise Man' are actually sinonyms. The same word was used in the japanese...



5.2. Then how do you explain the fact that there are 6 sages (and this is the word used) buried in the graveyard in Cobble Kingdom in PH?

Also, the 'Book of Mudora' rings any bell?



6.1. No they don't. The FSA map is about the same size as LttP's, which is smaller than TP's.

BTW, if you do that with the LA map you'll notice that it is a bigger area than the OoA one. Yet we all know that Koholint was supposed to be only one tiny island...



6.2. We can see very far though, further than the FSA map...



6.3. That doesn't make much sense. How on earth would trees create soil particles??



6.4.
lol
That's a fan-made map

Calatia is only mentioned in the Valiant comic books:
http://zeldawiki.org/Calatia



7. It isn't. The 4S was sent to the SR after FSA. That's how Ganon ended up there. OoT is still the IW though, because it is the only game that matches the criteria to be it.



8. That's a start :P
lol



12. Yes, and a fun-fact: the oracles from OoX were also called Maidens in the original japanese...



13. My point is that the DW from FSA looks more like the twilight covered Hyrule from TP than the DW from LttP.



16. Then an archeological excavation could have easily found stuff...
Still, I don't see how that could have happened...



17. In the game text...



Aonuma confirmed that Ganon is completely dead after TWW! So removing the sword wouldn't bring him back. Let me go look for the quotes.

5.2 What is the cobble kingdom now? It's a living graveyard that's what it is. It must be centuries old to have gotten in it's state.
The Book of Mudora as a translator yes.

6.1 I combined those parts and they are larger than any of the areas in LA and OOA.

6.2 Well I couldn't even when I used the scope. The rest of my vision had been clouded by mist. What about the other directions? Can you see from that distance? Cause I could not.

6.3 Tell that to the talking tree with magical tree children who sprouts trees that have faces.

6.4 Lol no it isn't
My cousin got that same map from Nintendo way back when.

7 You have just made a huge contradiction. If the seal war was OOT and Ganon was sealed in FSA and is the same Ganon from Alttp how is that possible. And if FSa wasn't the seal war, then why would it even need to be mentioned in Alttp.

8. Don't get your hopes up. I am still firmed in the thoughts that it fits the child timeline. Although I accept many things I can't accept your placements in the AT. Although the Alttp/LA-OOX thing makes a lot of sense.

13. The DW from Alttp was the same thing except it had land differences much like the DW from FSA.

16. It just does. I don't know how this stuff gets under the soil but it does. Still it is possible, the Temple of Seasons fell underground (even though it was forced by magic.)

17. I have no memory of this, I need quotes.

18. Perhaps, but his head does not mean anything. So it resembles the pedestal in Alttp and you can't deny that the area in TP resembles the Alttp one even more. It even has a forest guarding it.
 
Joined
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Renumbered

5.2 What is the cobble kingdom now? It's a living graveyard that's what it is. It must be centuries old to have gotten in it's state.

1. My point is that the name 'Sages' survived the flood. You said the history had been lost.

The Book of Mudora as a translator yes.

2. The Book of Mudora is said to have the legends of Hyrule written in it too...

6.1 I combined those parts and they are larger than any of the areas in LA and OOA.

3. You didn't get my point. I meant that LA map is bigger than OoA's if we combine all in-game areas. Yet Koholnt was supposed to be only a small island, and Labrynna a large kingdom...

6.2 Well I couldn't even when I used the scope. The rest of my vision had been clouded by mist. What about the other directions? Can you see from that distance? Cause I could not.

4. The FSA map is covered by water from all sides. BTW, where is Snowpeak in FSA Hyrule?

6.3 Tell that to the talking tree with magical tree children who sprouts trees that have faces.

5. You didn't get it. I doubt the devs were thinking about producing soil when they added that GDT line. It makes more sense for them to be thinking about deflooding...

6.4 Lol no it isn't
My cousin got that same map from Nintendo way back when.

6. Then I suppose it is from the comic books. I read the LoZ backstory several times and it doesn't mention Calatia, IIRC...

The only place I have ever seen that name in is the Valiant comic book.

Also, it looks a lot like a fan map to me. You have a way to confirm it is from Nintendo?

7 You have just made a huge contradiction. If the seal war was OOT and Ganon was sealed in FSA and is the same Ganon from Alttp how is that possible. And if FSa wasn't the seal war, then why would it even need to be mentioned in Alttp.

7. Easy. The LttP BS doesn't say that particular Ganon had been sealed during the SW. It just says that Ganon had been sealed theer during the war. He could easily have escaped and got there again. I don't see the contradiction there.

They needed a way to connect OoT (the SW) back to LttP after they made TWW. That's where FSA fits. It is a bridge between TWW and LttP so that LttP can work...

8. Don't get your hopes up. I am still firmed in the thoughts that it fits the child timeline. Although I accept many things I can't accept your placements in the AT. Although the Alttp/LA-OOX thing makes a lot of sense.

8. Well, don't you think the presence of the Ocean in FSA was meant to indicate something? I mean, even if it is a continent, they could have depicted it like OoT's Hyrule, if they really wanted to make it a CT game. Yet they preferred to make it surrounded by water. And that was after TWW had been released...

13. The DW from Alttp was the same thing except it had land differences much like the DW from FSA.

9. There are 2 DW's in FSA. One looks a lot like the DW from LttP. The other looks a lot like the Twilight Curtain from TP...

16. It just does. I don't know how this stuff gets under the soil but it does. Still it is possible, the Temple of Seasons fell underground (even though it was forced by magic.)

10. I forgot what we were discussing here. What was it? :hmm:

17. I have no memory of this, I need quotes.

11. i'll look at the text dump tomorrow. I'm too tired to do it now...

18. Perhaps, but his head does not mean anything. So it resembles the pedestal in Alttp and you can't deny that the area in TP resembles the Alttp one even more. It even has a forest guarding it.

12. I agree, but that would go against the idea that OoT is the SW, which, for me, is inviolable...
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
Ok stop stop stop. Listen, we've each made good points in our discussions and we have kept this argument going long and hard. However we are discussing to many random things, sooner or later we are going to get confused. Not to mention that neither of us getting anywhere. I suggest that we call it a draw for now and discuss this another time. I can only take one arguement at a time.
 

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