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Monogamy outdated/unnecessary?

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
I was talking to a colleague of mine at lunch and the topic was her failing marriage (she cheated on her husband). I pointed out she isn't alone and that many relationships fall apart during the spring period. She told me she was foolish to expect her marriage to last forever. I agreed with her but it wasn't an attack on her as a person but rather an acknowledgement that marriage doesn't last more than a few years.

This lead me to make this thread. We're at a weird crossroads now where the expectations of monogamy seem weird to carry out in today's times where everything seems to be very backwards. Do people really expect their marriages to last forever in this day and age. We still take those old vows "Till death to us part".

Humans aren't monogamous creatures by nature, it is a social structure we created for old times and was needed for order and investment. A women back in the old days would exchange her goods(sex) for a mans safety and resources. Now women can attain their own resources and are protected by the state, so there's no need for them to settle for one man.

Let's also not forget monogamy and love are a product which big organizations love to sell you, they even have a day for it called valentines.


I personally never go into any relationship thinking it will last forever. I find the concept of everlasting love a rather childish dream to actively pursue. I think in today's world its more of a product being sold to those that desperately want a companion by their side forever, which again, is a child's dream. It happens very rarely, everything breaks down eventually.

I still think it's important for mothers and fathers to stick together when it comes to raising their children, but I don't think the maturity is their due to the lack of impulse control.

What do you guys think? Is this truly a new age for soft harems and cuckoldry? Does it matter that monogamy doesn't seem to hold much water now? Should it have ever done so? How long should a relationship ideally last? Is the lack of commitment between the sexes effecting the way children are being raised?
 
Joined
May 9, 2018
Gender
His Unerring Majesty
I was talking to a colleague of mine at lunch and the topic was her failing marriage (she cheated on her husband). I pointed out she isn't alone and that many relationships fall apart during the spring period. She told me she was foolish to expect her marriage to last forever. I agreed with her but it wasn't an attack on her as a person but rather an acknowledgement that marriage doesn't last more than a few years.

This lead me to make this thread. We're at a weird crossroads now where the expectations of monogamy seem weird to carry out in today's times where everything seems to be very backwards. Do people really expect their marriages to last forever in this day and age. We still take those old vows "Till death to us part".

Humans aren't monogamous creatures by nature, it is a social structure we created for old times and was needed for order and investment. A women back in the old days would exchange her goods(sex) for a mans safety and resources. Now women can attain their own resources and are protected by the state, so there's no need for them to settle for one man.

Let's also not forget monogamy and love are a product which big organizations love to sell you, they even have a day for it called valentines.


I personally never go into any relationship thinking it will last forever. I find the concept of everlasting love a rather childish dream to actively pursue. I think in today's world its more of a product being sold to those that desperately want a companion by their side forever, which again, is a child's dream. It happens very rarely, everything breaks down eventually.

I still think it's important for mothers and fathers to stick together when it comes to raising their children, but I don't think the maturity is their due to the lack of impulse control.

What do you guys think? Is this truly a new age for soft harems and cuckoldry? Does it matter that monogamy doesn't seem to hold much water now? Should it have ever done so? How long should a relationship ideally last? Is the lack of commitment between the sexes effecting the way children are being raised?

Forgive me if I am taking your words out of context, but I find it interesting you point out that women are protected by state as a reason they no longer need to settle down. Does this imply that if the state falls apart, we would revert back to a traditional monogamous society? And if so, wouldn't that make monogamy the default, and soft harems an artificial product of state policy? I am personally inclined to believe that monogamy is the default of human society given that every civilization has had it for thousands and thousands of years until the very recent rise of liberal societies that lean towards Feminism and Sexual Liberty. Once these societies come down for whatever reason, watch it snap back.
 

Deus

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The modern society is a selfish society of instant gratification where most people would rather chase the highs of a new relationship every few months than settle down with someone, overcome their struggles together and forge a long lasting bond.

I wouldn't choose to get married if I didn't think it could last forever, and I believe it could with the right person but unfortunately these days hardly any are marriage material and have the right attitude towards relationships to make it work. Most relationships tend to last for such short periods, and loyalty is a foreign concept to a lot. There is this thought process that there is always someone better on the horizon. This leads to people jumping from relationship to relationship always searching for better and I do not believe this is the way things are meant to be. In the end people like this end up lonely.

This lack of commitment is something that I imagine is being passed down to children as they look at their parents relationships and the relationships of their friends parents. If younger people don't see long lasting relationships working out then they won't have that belief instilled in them that they can work.
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Forgive me if I am taking your words out of context, but I find it interesting you point out that women are protected by state as a reason they no longer need to settle down. Does this imply that if the state falls apart, we would revert back to a traditional monogamous society? And if so, wouldn't that make monogamy the default, and soft harems an artificial product of state policy? I am personally inclined to believe that monogamy is the default of human society given that every civilization has had it for thousands and thousands of years until the very recent rise of liberal societies that lean towards Feminism and Sexual Liberty. Once these societies come down for whatever reason, watch it snap back.
I believe monogamy is the usual go to state once a society has developed up to a certain point. If the state falls we wouldn't turn into apes all of a sudden and rely solely on our instincts, so I agree, it would snap back.

Our polygamous side harbors back to early human civilization when we were in tribes just killing and ****ing one another. The strongest male would get the lions share of women which was advantages back then as pure biological muscle power won your wars back and meant you could live on through your genes.


The modern society is a selfish society of instant gratification where most people would rather chase the highs of a new relationship every few months than settle down with someone, overcome their struggles together and forge a long lasting bond.

I wouldn't choose to get married if I didn't think it could last forever, and I believe it could with the right person but unfortunately these days hardly any are marriage material and have the right attitude towards relationships to make it work. Most relationships tend to last for such short periods, and loyalty is a foreign concept to a lot. There is this thought process that there is always someone better on the horizon. This leads to people jumping from relationship to relationship always searching for better and I do not believe this is the way things are meant to be. In the end people like this end up lonely.

This lack of commitment is something that I imagine is being passed down to children as they look at their parents relationships and the relationships of their friends parents. If younger people don't see long lasting relationships working out then they won't have that belief instilled in them that they can work.
This is what I was getting at with sex/love/people being more of a product to sell, use and abuse by organizations. Your breeding and "love" shall now be dictated by our apps, algorithms and swiping on a screen whilst we collect all your info to sell you ****.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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Sometimes I wonder if polygamy is a big cause of depression and loneliness. Deep down we want stability and compassion. I don't think we are polygamous by nature, I'm inclined to believe we are monogamous. Or atleast monogamy is more satisfying. At the end of the day we don't want to be lonely, but with polygomy, like Deus pointed out, we end up still feeling lonely because the relationships aren't permanent. Another downside, there will come a point when we get old and companionship will be more remote, so we'll basically end up alone.

So why doesn't monogamy work out anymore? Well people rarely get married for the right reason. But more importantly, pop culture actually is pitching that polygamy is good, cheating is ok, etc... Is it though? Are people really happy? Doesn't seem like it, depression is a spreading epidemic.
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Sometimes I wonder if polygamy is a big cause of depression and loneliness. Deep down we want stability and compassion. I don't think we are polygamous by nature, I'm inclined to believe we are monogamous. Or atleast monogamy is more satisfying. At the end of the day we don't want to be lonely, but with polygomy, like Deus pointed out, we end up still feeling lonely because the relationships aren't permanent. Another downside, there will come a point when we get old and companionship will be more remote, so we'll basically end up alone.

So why doesn't monogamy work out anymore? Well people rarely get married for the right reason. But more importantly, pop culture actually is pitching that polygamy is good, cheating is ok, etc... Is it though? Are people really happy? Doesn't seem like it, depression is a spreading epidemic.
It's possible but I think loneliness and depression may come more from the fact that we aren't as connected as we once were. The tribe and small communities in early societies gave people a bearing on where they were in the world in relation to their peers. Bonds with your fellow man were advantageous and had to be made in some cases if you wanted to survive. Families became more important later on. Now it would appear more children are being born without much of a supporting family.
 
Joined
May 9, 2018
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His Unerring Majesty
It's possible but I think loneliness and depression may come more from the fact that we aren't as connected as we once were. The tribe and small communities in early societies gave people a bearing on where they were in the world in relation to their peers. Bonds with your fellow man were advantageous and had to be made in some cases if you wanted to survive. Families became more important later on. Now it would appear more children are being born without much of a supporting family.

And I don't imagine polygamy and cuckoldry are doing much to aid this problem.
 

YIGAhim

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I was talking to a colleague of mine at lunch and the topic was her failing marriage (she cheated on her husband). I pointed out she isn't alone and that many relationships fall apart during the spring period. She told me she was foolish to expect her marriage to last forever. I agreed with her but it wasn't an attack on her as a person but rather an acknowledgement that marriage doesn't last more than a few years.

This lead me to make this thread. We're at a weird crossroads now where the expectations of monogamy seem weird to carry out in today's times where everything seems to be very backwards. Do people really expect their marriages to last forever in this day and age. We still take those old vows "Till death to us part".

Humans aren't monogamous creatures by nature, it is a social structure we created for old times and was needed for order and investment. A women back in the old days would exchange her goods(sex) for a mans safety and resources. Now women can attain their own resources and are protected by the state, so there's no need for them to settle for one man.

Let's also not forget monogamy and love are a product which big organizations love to sell you, they even have a day for it called valentines.


I personally never go into any relationship thinking it will last forever. I find the concept of everlasting love a rather childish dream to actively pursue. I think in today's world its more of a product being sold to those that desperately want a companion by their side forever, which again, is a child's dream. It happens very rarely, everything breaks down eventually.

I still think it's important for mothers and fathers to stick together when it comes to raising their children, but I don't think the maturity is their due to the lack of impulse control.

What do you guys think? Is this truly a new age for soft harems and cuckoldry? Does it matter that monogamy doesn't seem to hold much water now? Should it have ever done so? How long should a relationship ideally last? Is the lack of commitment between the sexes effecting the way children are being raised?
You said it yourself that you hate seeing single mothers "wasting taxpayer dollars"

Without marriage, it's either a lot of single moms/dads or no new kids.
 
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Misty

Ronin
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Isn't this one of those self-fulfilling prophecy reap what you sow sort of questions and things?

I remember I was commenting to a very close friend the other day that when I watch most folks sort of go about the courtship process, it seems to me they aren't usually setting up for a long life together. They're usually engaged in very fun and fanciful things, a sexual relationship is rushed before they even really know the person, the questions aren't about the other person in depth, there isn't much discussion of non-negotiable aspects of what they want in their life and in a partner. I could go on, but my ultimate point is that watching my generation especially it doesn't seem like they're setting up for husbands or wives so much as playmates. And playmates end when the fun does.

And then you tack on this whole thing where nobody really believes it could work or that it's a childish fantasy. It's not tho is it? Lots of folks manage it and with mostly happy returns. But if you believe that then you're setting yourself up to not have it. Because it is one of those things where you have to believe it and you have to take steps to make it true, like any other dream. All these people who have been married for seventy years and are likely to die married didn't hit the jackpot. Listen to most of them. They worked for it. Like any person with success in any field they worked to have that because it was important to them. They mention how they had to work to fix problems, how they weren't always happy, how they had to forgive a lot, how they had to compromise a lot, but also how it was worth it. How they're 90 and they still see their wife or husband and it's just like when they first met. How they had a life with someone and how awesome and worth the work that was.

And I'll just say it, no other kind of relationship could or would be as much of an adventure, experience, fulfilling, and life's worky. That's why it is hard. And yes, most people don't want hard work and are lazy and when the going gets tough they go. And they've been enabled to be that. And it's sad for them as much as anyone. But, I don't believe most people are even nearing making the effort.

The divorce rate is at like 40-50% right? That still means the other half could do it and did. No, monogamy isn't on the way out. It's just getting told it is because it's a lot easier to turn away from disappointment and hard work than to turn towards it.
 

Justac00lguy

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I always thought monogamy didn’t exist - that it was a dated concept based nothing more on tradition. I never got attached to anyone and always desired other people. While I still hold some similar views, my outlook has changed after being in a relationship for several months. Though I’m totally cool with polygamy and people who practice it.
 

Castle

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Marriage has to be enforced. Let's face it, most people are just too careless and selfish to adhere to marriage vows without some threat of consequence for breaking them. I can hardly blame people, much less myself. We are, after all, only human. This enforcement of marriage is different from culture to culture. In some culture, women are literally slaves who are bought and sold to the highest bidder. In others, social customs such as religion strictly forbid separation and other societies have legal repercussions in place for divorce.

But why enforce marriage at all? One reason: child rearing. Children are our future, not just of our various cultures but of our species. And human social customs require that children be raised in structured environments. This requires a primary caregiver, and for humanity the designated caregivers are women. Women's predisposition for child rearing is largely biological, but men make for adequate enough substitutes for mothers.

This means that a couple must stick together to raise a child. If that couple separates, the child is left without a primary care giver. Children need around the clock attention. This means that both parents or a single parent simply cannot go off and do other things, such as essential things like bringing home the food the child needs to eat. Remove the constant care a child requires and the child will be maladjusted. Maladjusted adults are animals who tear human society down. To prevent this, one caregiver must be present at all times.

And that doesn't happen in societies with working moms, absentee fathers and 50% divorce rates.

Human beings figured out long ago that a nuclear family is mandatory for a functioning society and for preserving the species. Obviously our society has forgotten that age old lesson; or has simply disregarded it.

Does this mean that all the women should be chained to the stoves? Absolutely not. But it doesn't change the fact that children need a primary caregiver at all times. Be it man or woman. And children require individual attention that can only be provided by a select few caregivers, so raising children is not something a classroom or commune is good for.

Monogamy isn't about the couple. It is not about the relevancy of marriage. It is not unique to specific times or circumstances. Monogamy exists because children need both a primary care giver and a breadwinner and the roles do not overlap. And if children are not being taken care of properly it undermines our society.
 
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His Unerring Majesty
Marriage has to be enforced. Let's face it, most people are just too careless and selfish to adhere to marriage vows without some threat of consequence for breaking them. I can hardly blame people, much less myself. We are, after all, only human. This enforcement of marriage is different from culture to culture. In some culture, women are literally slaves who are bought and sold to the highest bidder. In others, social customs such as religion strictly forbid separation and other societies have legal repercussions in place for divorce.

But why enforce marriage at all? One reason: child rearing. Children are our future, not just of our various cultures but of our species. And human social customs require that children be raised in structured environments. This requires a primary caregiver, and for humanity the designated caregivers are women. Women's predisposition for child rearing is largely biological, but men make for adequate enough substitutes for mothers.

This means that a couple must stick together to raise a child. If that couple separates, the child is left without a primary care giver. Children need around the clock attention. This means that both parents or a single parent simply cannot go off and do other things, such as essential things like bringing home the food the child needs to eat. Remove the constant care a child requires and the child will be maladjusted. Maladjusted adults are animals who tear human society down. To prevent this, one caregiver must be present at all times.

And that doesn't happen in societies with working moms, absentee fathers and 50% divorce rates.

Human beings figured out long ago that a nuclear family is mandatory for a functioning society and for preserving the species. Obviously our society has forgotten that age old lesson; or has simply disregarded it.

Does this mean that all the women should be chained to the stoves? Absolutely not. But it doesn't change the fact that children need a primary caregiver at all times. Be it man or woman. And children require individual attention that can only be provided by a select few caregivers, so raising children is not something a classroom or commune is good for.

Monogamy isn't about the couple. It is not about the relevancy of marriage. It is not unique to specific times or circumstances. Monogamy exists because children need both a primary care giver and a breadwinner and the roles do not overlap. And if children are not being taken care of properly it undermines our society.

Basically, we need traditional families to keep society afloat. This is the reason that traditional families have existed for so long.
 
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Beauts

Rock and roll will never die
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I just don't think monogamy is for everyone. There is plenty of evidence that polygamy can work. All this 'we must be a nuclear family to raise children' stuff is bull****. Why stick together in holy misery? That stuff does more damage than growing up with only one parent. We can certainly be in love with more than one person at the same time and in fact, breeding with more than one person is about increasing the population to better the species chance of survival, with the largest possible gene pool. As a species we do not mate for life, that is an enforced idea. But like I said, some people are monogamous in nature and that's fine. It's certainly easier to tell yourself that's how it has to be for simplicity's sake.
 

YIGAhim

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I just don't think monogamy is for everyone. There is plenty of evidence that polygamy can work. All this 'we must be a nuclear family to raise children' stuff is bull****. Why stick together in holy misery? That stuff does more damage than growing up with only one parent. We can certainly be in love with more than one person at the same time and in fact, breeding with more than one person is about increasing the population to better the species chance of survival, with the largest possible gene pool. As a species we do not mate for life, that is an enforced idea. But like I said, some people are monogamous in nature and that's fine. It's certainly easier to tell yourself that's how it has to be for simplicity's sake.
I mean, right now though, we need to cut back on the kids
 
Joined
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His Unerring Majesty
I just don't think monogamy is for everyone. There is plenty of evidence that polygamy can work. All this 'we must be a nuclear family to raise children' stuff is bull****. Why stick together in holy misery? That stuff does more damage than growing up with only one parent. We can certainly be in love with more than one person at the same time and in fact, breeding with more than one person is about increasing the population to better the species chance of survival, with the largest possible gene pool. As a species we do not mate for life, that is an enforced idea. But like I said, some people are monogamous in nature and that's fine. It's certainly easier to tell yourself that's how it has to be for simplicity's sake.

Okay, a lot to unpack here:

1. If people are better off with polygamy than monogamy, then why did we abandon polygamy for monogamy so long ago? Are we really happier with with just drowning ourselves in dozens of meaningless relationships? Because that's what polygamy essentially translates to.

2. Can I get some metrics on how nuclear families are more harmful than single parent households? Because from what I've seen, children who grow up in single parent households or divorced households are far less prosperous and happy than children living in monogamous households. Furthermore, as Castle pointed out, children need a caretaker and a breadwinner to supply their needs. Polygamy runs diametrically against this.

3. Yes, breeding indiscriminately will produce more children, but will these children be raised in a proper environment where they can be supplied and cared for as well as being taught the principles of society to ensure they are productive members? Otherwise, we'll just become Africa.
 

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