Spoiler Mini Timeline: SS>MC>OoT?

[99% ZeldaExpert]

Due to a previous thread that I mainly skimmed through brought up a small thought process in my head as to the placement of two games already out and one future game to come. This has not only an arguement against the placement of these games but a little issue with the theories on Skyward Sword.

Now as it is known, Skyward Sword about a boy named Link from the place in the sky known as Skyloft. Link is partnered up with the Skyward Sword and sent down to banish all the evil in the world below and the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword in or around the end.

Now after reading a previous thread where someone argues over the Triforce in Minish Cap being something that it is or isn't to represent a placement for the MC because so many of you beleive it to be before OoT around the start of the timeline. Now their discussion is on the Triforce mainly but this is on the other implication about the MS.

If infact around the end of SS the MS is made and it seals all evil, and MC is directly after SS in the timeline, then the sword in the chest in the beggining of MC would have to be the MS. Now in MC, during the picori festival the MS is pulled out of the chest which then releases all the "evil". But the MS to everyone's surprise, is broken. So it is Link's job to go get it reforged making it into the Four Sword. But wait, wasn't the MS used in OoT?>.> Was it somewhere inbetween MC and OoT reforged?:hmm: Likely chance that it wasn't considering we would have somewhere been referenced about it atleast in the ending of MC or the beggining of OoT.

So if the MS was in the chest but was broken somehow when it was pulled out and was soon reforged into the FS, how does the MS appear in OoT?

Also referencing the FS forged in MC to the games FS and FSA, shouldn't they be right after MC? Which still wouldn't make sence for MC to be before OoT because it is still the Four Sword and not the Master Sword.

Anyone willing to spread a little confliction between this? I'm almost positive that my infermations made above are correct but feel free to make counter arguements or agreements.

 

[Locke]

You're saying...

If a sword seals evil, then it is the Master Sword. (or Every sword that seals evil is the Master Sword.)
The Picori Blade seals evil.
Therefore, the Picori Blade is the Master Sword.

That first statement is not true. Its converse may be true: "If a sword is the Master Sword, then it seals evil" or "Every sword that is the Master Sword seals evil." A statement and its converse don't necessarily share the same truth value. Think of it as a circle within a circle. The inner circle represents the Master Sword, the outer circle represents swords that seal evil. If you pick a point inside the Master Sword circle, it is guaranteed to also be inside the evil-sealing circle. But if you pick a point inside the evil-sealing circle, it's possible that it's still outside the Master Sword circle. The ability for a sword to seal evil doesn't automatically make it the Master Sword.

The Master Sword being the same as the Picori Blade/Four Sword is inconsistent no matter where you place MC. The Master Sword simply cannot be the Picori Blade. Therefore, similarities between the HoM story and what we know of the story of SS can't imply a connection because of that one major flaw.

 

[99% ZeldaExpert]

The Master Sword being the same as the Picori Blade/Four Sword is inconsistent no matter where you place MC. The Master Sword simply cannot be the Picori Blade. Therefore, similarities between the HoM story and what we know of the story of SS can't imply a connection because of that one major flaw.

Now I never said that the MS and the PB were the same. They are completely different as you and I said.

The ability for a sword to seal evil doesn't automatically make it the Master Sword.

Well this is true I guess since the MS and the FS both sealed a type of evil in them but then brings up the question as to where the Picori Blade came from. I mean obviously from it's title it was either made or given by the Picori but it doesn't have any history like the MS and FS do. I mean there are pieces of info in MC telling us about the origin of the PB but it has no back up. What was it made for originally? The MS had already been made to banish evil so why need a completely different blade for the same purpose?

The Master Sword being the same as the Picori Blade/Four Sword is inconsistent no matter where you place MC. The Master Sword simply cannot be the Picori Blade. Therefore, similarities between the HoM story and what we know of the story of SS can't imply a connection because of that one major flaw.

Now I never said that the MS and the PB were the same. They are completely different as you and I said.

The ability for a sword to seal evil doesn't automatically make it the Master Sword.

Well this is true I guess since the MS and the FS both sealed a type of evil in them but then brings up the question as to where the Picori Blade came from. I mean obviously from it's title it was either made or given by the Picori but it doesn't have any history like the MS and FS do. I mean there are pieces of info in MC telling us about the origin of the PB but it has no back up. What was it made for originally? The MS had already been made to banish evil so why need a completely different blade for the same purpose?

 

[Locke]

Now I never said that the MS and the PB were the same. They are completely different as you and I said.

Right, I realize that you were referring to the idea hypothetically do demonstrate its fallacy, just like I did. Sorry that my reply sounded like I was disagreeing with you.

Well this is true I guess since the MS and the FS both sealed a type of evil in them but then brings up the question as to where the Picori Blade came from. I mean obviously from it's title it was either made or given by the Picori but it doesn't have any history like the MS and FS do. I mean there are pieces of info in MC telling us about the origin of the PB but it has no back up. What was it made for originally? The MS had already been made to banish evil so why need a completely different blade for the same purpose?

Those are very good questions. I'll try to assume a developer's POV to determine the possible reasons. Before OoT, the MS's backstory was just as unexplained and unimportant as the PB's is now. Then they tried to explain the origin of the MS by writing a prequel to LttP. This severely limited their creative freedom and the story suffered from inconsistencies with the established story as well as a limit to its expansion. I believe that either Aonuma or Miyamoto explained this in an interview (not specifically with OoT, but just retelling backstories in general) and expressed that he'd rather go forward with completely new stories with less limitations. I think they've learned from OoT to just leave the FS origin as is. Of course the fact that they're making SS seems to go against this principle.
For your last question I repeat the same response. If they had used the Master Sword, they would be limited in how they could use it, and they'd have to come up with some explanation of how they can be the same. It was better to invent a new sword whose story wasn't as developed in order to minimize limitations.

 

[ottobot]

I doubt that the master sword and the Picori blade/four sword are the same. If that were true, then it would be called the master sword,:mastersword: not the Picori blade. Also, the origin of the Picori blade dosn't seem to fit the master sword, as that means there has to be Minish/Picori in SS and that dosn't seem likely to me

 

[99% ZeldaExpert]

If they had used the Master Sword, they would be limited in how they could use it, and they'd have to come up with some explanation of how they can be the same. It was better to invent a new sword whose story wasn't as developed in order to minimize limitations.

True, I guess creating a new sword would be the logical thing to do. Now that I rethink my thread it is more of a complaint as to there being no back story to follow up with the Picori Blade than it being an argument over the placement of the games.

 

[T Edoc]

Actualy, I think this thread is really interresting. I don't know what's with Minish Cap backstory, but...you know...it weirdly looks like SS, somehow :

A long long time ago...
When the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...
The tiny Picori appeared from the sky, bringing the hero of men a sword [Oh, look, it has a...blue-purple hilt...] and a golden light [Looks like some sort of lone - or complete - triforce, no?].
With wisdom and courage, the hero drove out the darkness.
When peace has been restored, the people enshrined that blade with care.

This is the text of the prologue in the english version of The Minish Cap (available here)

And if someone can give me the link to some stating that the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword in Legend of Zelda : Skyward Sword, I'd appreciate. :-)
What I've read yet only says it 'eventualy becomes the Master Sword' and doesn't say when...

 

[Locke]

And if someone can give me the link to some stating that the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword in Legend of Zelda : Skyward Sword, I'd appreciate. :-)
What I've read yet only says it 'eventualy becomes the Master Sword' and doesn't say when...

an impossible task. We haven't been told when the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword. It could be during the game, right after it, a while after it, or one could even try to argue that it goes through PB->FS before finally becoming the MS.

 

[Mastersworddude]

Actualy, I think this thread is really interresting. I don't know what's with Minish Cap backstory, but...you know...it weirdly looks like SS, somehow :

A long long time ago...
When the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...
The tiny Picori appeared from the sky, bringing the hero of men a sword [Oh, look, it has a...blue-purple hilt...] and a golden light [Looks like some sort of lone - or complete - triforce, no?].
With wisdom and courage, the hero drove out the darkness.
When peace has been restored, the people enshrined that blade with care.

This is the text of the prologue in the english version of The Minish Cap (available here)

And if someone can give me the link to some stating that the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword in Legend of Zelda : Skyward Sword, I'd appreciate. :-)
What I've read yet only says it 'eventualy becomes the Master Sword' and doesn't say when...

Wouldn't that mean the Skyward sword is the Picori blade? Which would mean Picori Blade=Master Sword, which is impossible.
Link stating Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword: http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/0...sword-orchestrated-music-will-be-present.html
At 6:45 in the quote.

 

[T Edoc]

@Last two posters : Yes, it doesn't state when the Skyward Sword becomes the Master Sword. Of course it may sound a bit incoherent that the sword would be the Picori Blade / White Sword / Four Sword in the progress, and I don't say it does so. I just want to point out some details from the Minish Cap's legend. We shouldn't flush Minish Cap from the before-Ocarina age under pretext the Master Sword isn't the Picori Blade. (I just try to stay open-minded when I have reasons to do so, even if I put Minish Cap far later in my own timeline - see my signature)

EDIT : I think I should thank you Mastersworddude for giving me the link I'm looking for for a little while. :-)