Midna and Zant's Relationship

[PapilioTempesta]

From what we see in Twilight Princess, it is clear that Zant and Midna had a long story together, and there's plenty to talk and speculate about.

That's what I think about it:

I always assumed that Zant loved Midna since long before his rebellion, feelings that she didn't notice or share. When Zant whispers "I need you" in her ears, he was thinking about something more than just a political alliance.

Whatever his feelings for Midna were, I believe Zant thought that he was good enough to be the king but his "radical" ideas about their light neighbors made the Twilight Royal Council (or whoever chooses their rulers) think Midna was a better option. Zant felt wronged and got even with the help of Ganondorf, taking over the throne by force. When he invaded the twili palace, full of pride, he probably propositioned to Midna; but she rejected him, and he threw a curse that changed completely her appearance, taking away her beauty.

But once he claimed the throne, probably all the twilis opposed to it, since they'd only accept the chosen ruler Midna. He could only get them to obey him by turning the twilis into mindless monsters, which makes them quiet and obedient, but doesn't feel like really ruling them. From his week and moody behaviour, I'd think Zant needs to feel accepted, and that's why he needs Midna for and only realizes after banishing her; he is powerfull enough to conquer, but not popular enough to rule his people.

(Sidenote: changing the twili's minds for some reason also changed their bodies, which was completely unnecessary. So, either Zant didn't fully control his new powers at the beginning, or he has some issues concerning his appearance -this would explain his mask isn't a shield, but a folly covering helmet).


This said, I recently found something in Hyrule Historia that can give my theory another twist:

From Hyrule Historia, about the Twili:

"Members of the powerful royal family choose one from among themselves to inherit the position of leader. (...) Despite Zant's ambitions, he was not chosen to be king, and Princes Midna instead became leader of their people."

From this I understand that Zant wasn't just a member of the Twilight court, but he's a member of the Royal Family itself. This could mean that he and Midna are actually relatives, which (weird as it can sound) gives credit to Zant's love for Midna: it was common among royalty that siblings and cousins wed to keep the bloodline "pure", so maybe he even expected that they would end up some day as King and Queen of the Twili -just what he offers her at the spring of Lanayru, in one of the most (creepily) romantic scenes of the whole game. Take that, Link-Epona-Ilia farewell scene by Ordon spring.

 

[Dragoncat]

It's quite possible, I actually knew someone on Deviant Art whose head canon involved Zant fathering Midna's son shortly before the events of TP. Poor kid, right? Imagine having both parents not there when you're that young. And one of them a psycho who should NEVER be introduced to energy drinks or caffeine.

 

[Doc]

I don't think that his "love" was romantic if they had been family. Sure, it had been common for families to wed within, but in a Zelda game doesn't seem like it belongs. And I also think that the twili's change had to do with more of the stolen sols than it did with Zant's (Ganon's) magic.

 

[DarkLink7]

I don't think that his "love" was romantic if they had been family. Sure, it had been common for families to wed within, but in a Zelda game doesn't seem like it belongs. And I also think that the twili's change had to do with more of the stolen sols than it did with Zant's (Ganon's) magic.

I disagree. It goes back to what Papilio said. Royal family siblings would marry so that "impure" blood wouldn't be mixed in. And since Zant's sort of crazy and Midna's true form is very pretty, it makes sense that Zant loved Midna romantically. So it all makes sense to that cutscene... and why he's so desperate to get Midna back

 

[Sydney]

"Members of the powerful royal family choose one from among themselves to inherit the position of leader. (...) Despite Zant's ambitions, he was not chosen to be king, and Princes Midna instead became leader of their people."

Please tell me where, anywhere, in this quote implies Zant and Midna have a romantic relationship. The "royal family" portion? That could imply a plethora of things. For all we know, Zant could be Midna's cousin, half-brother, step-brother, brother-in-law, etc. In my opinion, I think Zant and Midna are siblings versus lovers. Why? Because of the key word "inherit". When your parents pass away, who inherits most of their possessions? Their children, of course (most of the time, anyway). When royalty decides to promote a new leader, they look towards the prince and princess, both of whom are typically brother and sister (imo, at least).

So unless there's concrete evidence that Zant and Midna were lovers, I'm going to assume they're siblings. :yes:

 

[PapilioTempesta]

Please tell me where, anywhere, in this quote implies Zant and Midna have a romantic relationship.

Nowhere at all. As I said before, what suggests that Zant may have a crush on Midna is some scenes of the game itself (Lanayru Spring, mainly), while it is made quite clear that Midna doesn't feel the same at all towards him.

The Hyrule Historia quote suggests that Midna and Zant could be relatives, close or not, which is not contradictory to Zant being in love (or sickly obsessed, it's difficult to tell) with Midna. Marriage and incest within royalty was never a problem here, why should it be so in Hyrule or the Twilight Realm?

 

[Salem]

Incest in a kids game? Seriously?

 

[Dragoncat]

Yeah in the olden days, royalty would marry cousins/siblings. It's disgusting by today's standards and it must have sucked horribly, but that's the way it was.

If you need proof, research the disease hemophilia. It's a genetic condition that makes blood not clot, so people who have it can bleed to death from a small cut if they're not careful. It has to do with what we're talking about because there was a country, I think either France or Britain, that had it running rampant in their royal family. Because they never married anyone who wasn't related to them in some way and the hemophilia gene has to be passed down by both parents for the kid to have it, pretty much all of them had it. So historians could tell there was a lot of incest going on.

EDIT - Sroa, it's rated T for teen.

 

[Sydney]

Incest in a kids game? Seriously?

I agree, but also disagree.

A.) I agree that concepts such as incest would not be implemented into a Zelda game.

B.) I disagree that Zelda is a "kids" game, but that's for another topic.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Ok so I'd don't know where this theory came from seems like a whole lot of speculation. To be honest I feel this is very unlikely, I'll explain below...

Why? Because of the key word "inherit". When your parents pass away, who*inherits*most of their possessions? Their children, of course (most of the time, anyway). When royalty decides to promote a new leader, they look towards the prince and princess, both of whom are typically brother and sister (imo, at least).

Incest in a kids game? Seriously?

Ok where have you guys got the idea that Zant was apart of the Twili Royal Family? In fact it's heavily implied otherwise - look at this quote:

[ilquote=Zant] And all of it was the fault of a useless, do-nothing royal family that had resigned itself to this miserable half-existence! I had served and endured in that depraved household for far too long, my impudent princess. And why, you ask? Because I believed I would be the next to rule our people!*[/ilquote]

Look at how Zant's wording here, he refers to the Royal Family from an "outside" perspective, he even criticises them. Then the most important part would be the part where he states that he served the Royal Family, why would a member of the Royal Family serve the Royal Family? My guess is that Zant was a loyal servant, he had stone connections with the leaders and was probably widely respected, thus why he though he would earn the right to the throne.

However, how could he rule the Twili without being a member if the Royal Family? Look at this quote:

[ilquote=Hyrule Historia] Their leader is granted particularly strong powers, and it’s possible for someone "outside" of the royal family to be recognized as a royal heir.[/ilquote]

So it is possible for someone outside the Royal Family to ascend the throne, the fact that HH pointed this out seems to imply that Zant was outside the Royal Family.

---

To be honest the two could have had a relationship of sorts, we simply don't have enough information to formulate a reasonable response. The only thing we can do is analyse the interaction between the two, Midna seems to hate Zant for what he has done while Zant shows slight jealousy towards her. My guess would be that Zant served Midna and the Royal Family but was always jealous of their powers, thus why he wanted to ascend the throne and when he was denied he lost all hope -- fast forward when he gains his powers and he takes out his vengeance on all of the Twili and Midna. I truly doubt that he would do such a thing to person he once "loved" but we simply don't know and I'm probably over analysing things here.

 

[BlitzPlum]

No. Ew. 'Twili willy'...

 

[Dragoncat]

Nice find, c00l. I had completely missed that little piece of info...it's certainly believable, and supports my theory I came up with some time ago. Zant was a kind of an underdog, his magic wasnt as powerful as everyone else's. We know the twilis are magically inclined creatures, moreso than hylians. So maybe Zant had some developmental disability sort of thing that made him kinda suck at magic. If he was a commoner, he would be nowhere near the royal family, which leads me to believe he was the son of a noble or general or something like that. But even then, he wouldve been picked on horribly as a kid. As an adult he was still limited by his magic problems, couldn't follow in his parents' footsteps, doomed to be a servant. Then Ganondorf offers him a better life, makes his magic strong enough to turn other twilis into mindless monsters, and all hell breaks loose.

Blitz, lol. Twilis are pretty much just magic hylians...they would have the same...anatomy. They could probably even crossbreed with hylians if they wanted to. But that's a whole other topic xD

 

[BlitzPlum]

Blitz, lol. Twilis are pretty much just magic hylians...they would have the same...anatomy. They could probably even crossbreed with hylians if they wanted to. But that's a whole other topic xD

But that's just a theory... A GAME THEORY.

Awkward if you don't get the reference, but I felt it necessary...

 

[Dragoncat]

Yeah, it is a theory, but you can admit that a twili/hylian hybrid is more likely than a zora/hylian one. No matter how big of a crush Ruto appears to have on Link...zoras lay eggs for crying out loud. Impossible.

I might get the reference, I might not. If it's about the word "willy" being slang for...you know, then I get it. If it's anything else, then I don't get it.

 

[BlitzPlum]

I might get the reference, I might not. If it's about the word "willy" being slang for...you know, then I get it. If it's anything else, then I don't get it.

I meant the reference to 'Game Theory', so obviously not

It's a shame though, because Zora/Hylian cross-breeds would be pretty damn cool xD