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Merged Timeline Theory

Mases

Lord of the Flies
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I'd first like to quickly mention that I'm not overly knowledgeable with these types of theories, chains of events, which games come first, etc... However, this has just been something that's been on my mind for quite some time.

While it isn't a universal belief, based on statements from Nintendo and based on simple in game scenes, it appears there was a split timeline, as it is commonly referred to as.

Minish Cap perhaps being the first game, then Ocarina of Time, and then a split. With one direction headed towards Majora's Mask, and the other direction headed towards various games. The Oracle series have always seemed to be thrown in somewhere in different peoples timelines, but usually happening at the same time, within the same timeline.

The 'merged' timeline that I've just thought up in the past has Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons happening simultaneously but in DIFFERENT Timelines. Perhaps the events from Ocarina of Time and future games in each respective side of the timeline have triggered these events to be different, but similar.

Link then battles through both games and at the end of each game, Link has the ability to use passwords to link each game together. The games at this point then become one. Since there is already time travel involved in the Oracle of Ages, can this password system be some sort of merging timeline process? Something along the lines of...

__TMC
___l__
___l__
__OOT
__/_ \
_/ ___\
MM __???
_l_____l
_l_____l
???___???
_l_____l
_l_____l
???___???
_l_____l
_l_____l
OOA_ OOS
_\___ /
__\ _/
Oracle Ending
___l
___l
__???

(The poor formating made me include _'s to space it out properly)

The question marks will differ depending on which theorist or theory we go by, but this is the general idea of a possible model. Is this logical at all? Or is it just my own mind overthinking the Timeline? I like it, and think it would be a cool solution.
 

TheManInTheMoon

I've Done Been Ganked!
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Arizona
While I've seen this sort of theory gain some popularity over at ZU (see humulation timeline) I've never been a fan myself (nor am I a fan of the GT timeline). To have timelines merge... it just seems so unnecessary.
Anyways, the OoX story wouldn't make much sense if it was 2 stories happening simultaneously and somehow leading to Ganon, as it requires that one story follow the other in order to reach the conclusion (due to references to the past game and appearances of past characters). If it were to merge (with each timeline starting the story with a different oracle game) it would then have to happen at the one point that either playing order leads to, the Ganon fight, which is the same in each order
So rather then this

OoA-------OoS
..........|.........
.......Ganon......
..........|..........
Rest of the Timeline

Which would be impossible

it would have to be

OoA..........OoS
..|..............|..
OoS-------OoA
..........|..........
.......Ganon......

This would then take Farore (who through the password system was able to manipulate time ["Do you know the secret to moving through time?"- Farore]) out of the equation altogether (as she plays no part in the final battle), and there would be nothing forcing a timeline merger.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
LOL how did I know you were gonna make a thread about this. Well, first off, TMC is NOT before OoT. If it were then ALttP would be before OoT as well....remember the whole Vaati and Four Sword crap and how Nintendo tied them both in ALttP...so yeah. But I see where you're getting at witht he whole merged thing. But about about this...Oracle of Ages also uses time travel, so would that mean that it splits again? It would have to if you believe in the whole OoT split.

But some think the Oracles happened after AoL since they were trying to revive Ganon...Ganon was killed and turned to ash in LoZ, same with ALttP tho.
 
D

Deku Lord

Guest
While I've seen this sort of theory gain some popularity over at ZU (see humulation timeline) I've never been a fan myself (nor am I a fan of the GT timeline). To have timelines merge... it just seems so unnecessary.
Anyways, the OoX story wouldn't make much sense if it was 2 stories happening simultaneously and somehow leading to Ganon, as it requires that one story follow the other in order to reach the conclusion (due to references to the past game and appearances of past characters). If it were to merge (with each timeline starting the story with a different oracle game) it would then have to happen at the one point that either playing order leads to, the Ganon fight, which is the same in each order
So rather then this

OoA-------OoS
..........|.........
.......Ganon......
..........|..........
Rest of the Timeline

Which would be impossible

it would have to be

OoA..........OoS
..|..............|..
OoS-------OoA
..........|..........
.......Ganon......

This would then take Farore (who through the password system was able to manipulate time ["Do you know the secret to moving through time?"- Farore]) out of the equation altogether (as she plays no part in the final battle), and there would be nothing forcing a timeline merger.
It's not really Nintendo's fault if Capcom screwed up, and the various characters from the opposing games are not really even necessary to be met, they were implemented as sidequests. The bare minimum was grab the "Master Sword and go to Ganon."

As for the need to say that OoA creates another split, (moving momentarily to the second quote), well, no, it really doesn't, seeing as Link simply alters the landscape, and there are no significant figures in the past to spark another time line (no Zelda, Link, etc.).

And Farore, when she speaks of moving through time, yeah, "moving through time" is what merges the time lines together. It's linking the time periods back into one.



LOL how did I know you were gonna make a thread about this. Well, first off, TMC is NOT before OoT. If it were then ALttP would be before OoT as well....remember the whole Vaati and Four Sword crap and how Nintendo tied them both in ALttP...so yeah. But I see where you're getting at witht he whole merged thing. But about about this...Oracle of Ages also uses time travel, so would that mean that it splits again? It would have to if you believe in the whole OoT split.

But some think the Oracles happened after AoL since they were trying to revive Ganon...Ganon was killed and turned to ash in LoZ, same with ALttP tho.

What Vaati and Four Sword crap? Last I heard, Vaati was sealed inside of the Four Sword, again, and again, and again. I suppose I'm just not seeing why TMC being before OoT creates the need for ALttP to be moved there as well.
 

TheManInTheMoon

I've Done Been Ganked!
Joined
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Location
Arizona
It's not really Nintendo's fault if Capcom screwed up, and the various characters from the opposing games are not really even necessary to be met, they were implemented as sidequests. The bare minimum was grab the "Master Sword and go to Ganon."
So we should assume that Nintendo intended the merger with these games, but Capcom screwed it up? What we do know is that 3 games were intended, which in itself should dismiss any thoughts of intention of a timeline merger.

As for the need to say that OoA creates another split, (moving momentarily to the second quote), well, no, it really doesn't, seeing as Link simply alters the landscape, and there are no significant figures in the past to spark another time line (no Zelda, Link, etc.).
lolwut, I never claimed that OoA split the timeline.

And Farore, when she speaks of moving through time, yeah, "moving through time" is what merges the time lines together. It's linking the time periods back into one.
Actually, it is only referencing that see can send the items that you gathered in your current quest to your previous quest. To assume it meant she was going to join timelines is ridiculous. I threw it out as a possibility but to just assume that's what it means is a completely groundless claim.
 
D

Deku Lord

Guest
So we should assume that Nintendo intended the merger with these games, but Capcom screwed it up? What we do know is that 3 games were intended, which in itself should dismiss any thoughts of intention of a timeline merger.
Who's to say that Nintendo didn't intervene in the making of the third game? OR, who's to say the third game was not going to BE the merger, and not have a linked game at all?


lolwut, I never claimed that OoA split the timeline.
That was just me being lazy and not CPing it.


Actually, it is only referencing that see can send the items that you gathered in your current quest to your previous quest. To assume it meant she was going to join timelines is ridiculous. I threw it out as a possibility but to just assume that's what it means is a completely groundless claim.
Not really groundless, if you're looking into the probable merge cause by these games her words make a lot of sense. Maybe Capcom was instructed to put it there. And no, Farore wasn't going to join the time lines, Twinrova (They're in both time parts of the split. Just as a precaution, don't throw Termina in my face, it is fact that that was a seperate dimension.) did. And you defeat (not destroy) Ganon, thus continuing the general "Ganon gets a Linkwhopin'" trend.

When Farore asks you that question, it is by no means groundless to assume that she wanted to know if you knew how to merge the time lines once again.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
I didnt say you did. But since Link goes to past and present as well in OoA then wouldnt there have to be another split in the timeline, if not then its pretty hypocritical to say only OoT makes a split. And I say Four Sword and Vaati crap since those elements were only introduced in side quests like FSA and FS, TMC is the exception. And dont tell me you think TMC has to be first since thats when Link first got a green hat, its not the same Link people!
 
D

Deku Lord

Guest
I didnt say you did. But since Link goes to past and present as well in OoA then wouldnt there have to be another split in the timeline, if not then its pretty hypocritical to say only OoT makes a split. And I say Four Sword and Vaati crap since those elements were only introduced in side quests like FSA and FS, TMC is the exception. And dont tell me you think TMC has to be first since thats when Link first got a green hat, its not the same Link people!
What I was trying to point out was not that OoA did not create a split, because it definitely did, I am trying to state that the split it creates becomes irrelevant by the end of the game. Also, the side quest comment was talking about the people from the opposing game when playing the linked Oracle game.

I brought up the Vaati/Four Sword stuff, as an inquiry as to what you were talking about. I (currently) do think TMC is first, but not because of the hat garbage. That is nearly groundless.

I've said my piece for now. My apologies for the posting in close succession.


Quote from Collectors Edition instruction booklet:
Having waged his battlles across time to defeat the evil Ganon and restore peace to Hyrule, Link departed from the land that made him a legend. On a personal journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend, Link was waylaid while traveling through the Lost Woods, and his horse and precious Ocarina were stolen from him. His pursuit of the villain led him into the strange, parallel world of Termina, where he found his fate tied to its impending doom...
 
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TheManInTheMoon

I've Done Been Ganked!
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Arizona
Who's to say that Nintendo didn't intervene in the making of the third game? OR, who's to say the third game was not going to BE the merger, and not have a linked game at all?
http://gameboy.ign.com/objects/873/873036.html
They were all meant to be linked, but it proved too difficult.
And no, Farore wasn't going to join the time lines, Twinrova (They're in both time parts of the split. Just as a precaution, don't throw Termina in my face, it is fact that that was a seperate dimension.) did.
You know this how?
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
I think if the third Oracle game actually got released then there would be less debate since im sure it could have explained more details. It was meant to be the Triforce saga (remember the intro to each game, Link acquired the Triforce,dunno if it ties in with how it was meant to be, but still interesting).
 

TheManInTheMoon

I've Done Been Ganked!
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Location
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They were also meant to be remakes of LoZ and AoL (with the third being a completley new title). This is probaly why Holodrum is very much like LoZ's hyrule.
 
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Deku Lord

Guest
If Nintendo was willing to remake a word trading system to make it work with the time line, they would do it for the storyline as well. Maybe the password system not working in three games was an excuse for them realizing that three games didn't fit into a 2 part time line split.

And as for the similar maps, I suppose they are somewhat similar, except that... My Lord, I think you've given me the answer I've been looking for.

*Edit* Rather, confirmation I've been looking for.
 
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Joined
Apr 28, 2008
What Vaati and Four Sword crap? Last I heard, Vaati was sealed inside of the Four Sword, again, and again, and again. I suppose I'm just not seeing why TMC being before OoT creates the need for ALttP to be moved there as well.
me either, it just means Vaati sat in the sword for awhile which doesn't really create any problems in and of itself. I like MC being first as it shows the oracles first coming to hyrule and link first getting his hat which became a series staple.
 

Mases

Lord of the Flies
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I don't necessarily think there was a split in the Oracle of Ages. Link never aged and the storyline was continuous. (There could never be 2 Links in the same time period at the same time). However, the same could be said for Ocarina of Time. I have to replay Oracle of Ages once again to understand this better. Was there a constant like Zelda that could prevent the Black Tower from being created. Wasn't it being built in the past already?

I really just don't remember Oracle of Ages well enough. It was a great game and I'm going to play it once again sometime soon.

The discussion of the placement of the Minish Cap is a topic of its own. I personally think it comes first based on a bunch of things. However, I don't necessarily think it is the FIRST game. As in, there is plenty of room for a new Zelda title to release and come way before the Minish Cap.
 

Mehplep

Simply awesome
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Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I don't necessarily think there was a split in the Oracle of Ages. Link never aged and the storyline was continuous. (There could never be 2 Links in the same time period at the same time). However, the same could be said for Ocarina of Time. I have to replay Oracle of Ages once again to understand this better. Was there a constant like Zelda that could prevent the Black Tower from being created. Wasn't it being built in the past already?
I'm playing OoA atm, so I'm a bit updated. Black Tower is being built in past time, Veran have possessed Nayru's body and traveled back in time to mess up alot in present time and to be the ruler of the world. So I agree with Mases - it dosen't necessarily need to be a timespil here too. In Ocarina of time it was the future that was under siege of the evil, instead of the past as in Ages, because Ganondorf was unable to timetravel. In Ocarina, Link had to leave a timeline where Ganondorf had ruled in seven years and almost completly destroyed, while in Ages Link just fixed anything in the past that was created by Veran to prevent the present to go nuts. None if the events in the past had actually happened at all.
 

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