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Many atheists are too optimistic

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Aug 18, 2012
I am an atheist and I don't think atheism is all that it is made out to be. I think atheists who find meaning and value in this life of mortality and suffering through their atheism are being way too optimistic. They tell you that your life can still have full meaning despite it being the one and only life we have which unfortunately happens to consist of much suffering. I just think that is way too optimistic and unrealistic.

There are many people in this world who go through suffering to such a great degree that it is beyond your comprehension. A severely crippled treatment resistant depressed person will struggle with severe crippling depression and be on the brink of suicide throughout his/her life and here you are telling him/her that he/she can still have love, joy, happiness, inspiration, and good meaning in his/her life. That his/her life can be so wonderful even while struggling with that crippling depression.

Another example. A person will go through severe suffering, find no good meaning in his/her life, never got the chance to inspire the world or do anything great in their lives, and then just die shortly afterwards with no eternal blissful afterlife as a reward for his/her misery and meaningless life. You atheists are just blindly and ignorantly leaving out the suffering and meaningless lives of other people. It is no different than how many religious people are also too optimistic as well. They also blindly and ignorantly leave out the suffering of others.

The greatest and most innocent caring people in this world will be born into this world only to have so much suffering, depression, and lack of meaning in their lives and to just die in the end. And all of this because they were simply "unfortunate." We deserve better than that. We deserve an eternal blissful life of no more suffering created here on Earth through science in the future and for science to resurrect people such as me who have missed out on all the meaning of this life so we can live this eternal blissful life in the future.

It is like they say. It is often pessimists who see the truth while optimists tend to be blind. So I can clearly see the truth here. That being, there is nothing good at all about this being the one and only life we have. It might be for some people. But for many others, it consists virtually of suffering and the absence of good meaning. Both atheism and religious belief have their upsides and downsides. But the way I see it, atheism has the far greater downside when it comes to those types of unfortunate people I mentioned.

In conclusion, many people would say to me that it is impossible to create an eternal blissful life through science in the future and to resurrect people who have died and rotted away. But science has been achieving many things that we once thought were impossible in the past. Therefore, we shouldn't give up on trying to create an eternal blissful life and to resurrect those who have missed out. Even if it is somehow impossible to achieve this, then at least it was the greatest intellectual challenge for scientists to try and achieve it.
 
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Jirohnagi

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I think you look too deep into this type of thing. It's the Human condition Atheist or otherwise, if we don't look to closely at the suffering then we are happy. It's is exactly like a slaughter pen we look at one another and see only another human like us, we don't see the individual hurts or pains they may suffer, we are literally like cows in that regard we look at nothing and see nothing that is Optimism. To most pessimists yes there may be a greater downside especially to the atheistic pessimist but again that is Life in a Nut shell it has its ups and its downs and then we die.

Humans are born to die it is our nature, we cause suffering and die suffering, any beauty most see they see it only to destroy it, anything we consider good is only something we do to boost our own egos or self-esteems. There is no bliss for humanity because to live is to suffer, yes we shouldn't give up on trying to create something approximately blissful because if we did give up then we'd just die and that's a truth for you.

Humanity wages war because of religion and wages a different type war because of belief. The two aren't mutually exclusive though, and the reason why? Because we seek a better life for ourselves or our children or hell if you believe in it the next life we lead but ultimately humans will wipe themselves out through various means be it war or some idiot creating something that shouldn't be like a super virus.

I'd rather the scientists look into Resurrection and holding on to the past than look too far forward and start playing with far more dangerous stuff already we have biological warfare being worked on and likely in the next 100 years perfected. They say humanity is a virus. A stain on the face of the world and to be quite frank i think it's true what we can't use or corrupt to our own ends we destroy.
 

Dio

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One could argue that death itself is the ultimate pleasure in the end as there is no suffering in death. Unless you are religious and going to hell for breaking one of Gods laws. I'd say religious people are too optimistic, thinking they will get into heaven when they live such sinful existences. Mixing cloth, eating pork and all that.
 

Locke

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This is a matter of Truth vs Ideals. I think it's silly to base one's beliefs on what is more ideal; to reject one possible truth simply because it is undesirable. Truth is truth and you just have to accept it, even if it's painful.

That said, I believe atheism is not truth for other reasons.

Unless you are religious and going to hell for breaking one of Gods laws.
Hell is not restricted to the religious.
 

Dio

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This is a matter of Truth vs Ideals. I think it's silly to base one's beliefs on what is more ideal; to reject one possible truth simply because it is undesirable. Truth is truth and you just have to accept it, even if it's painful.

That said, I believe atheism is not truth for other reasons.

Hell is not restricted to the religious.
If it's real then it's not restricted to the religious. However since there is no evidence for it existing we have to assume it doesn't and therefore only the religious will have that kind of worry throughout their lives that they will end up in hell.
Which means in the unlikely case it is true the religious who end up there not only live a life of fear but live an afterlife of suffering. The non religious live a life without the fear and still end up suffering, but they lived without fear and were better off.
 

Jirohnagi

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What the actual **** are you trying to say.
Humanity is a stain on this planet that deserves to be wiped out? That People don't look at the suffering they daily cause and instead revel in selfishness? That Humanity can't seem to form a cohesive whole but instead prefers to beat itself to death with bluntest object it can find?
 

Jimmu

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The way I see its is that we can either sit around and feel bad about how bad we think our lives are or other people's lives are and never get anywhere, or we can get up and be the change that we want to see. Being optimistic isn't necessarily a bad thing either, if people can achieve happiness and self-actualisation partly through optimism then I can not see that as a bad thing. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here though, is it that all people shouldn't be happy because there are other people suffering?
 

Vanessa28

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No, absolutely not. I disagree fully. To be an atheist is not being too optimistic. You seriously don't believe in a God or higher being. This has nothing to do with people suffering around the world. If I choose not to do a specific job, should I keep the people in mind who don't have a job or who never got hired for this job I declined to do? If I like certain food should I not eat it because other people might not be able to eat that food? Atheism is a choice you made. You simply believe in a god or you don't. This has nothing to do with being too optimistic or forgetting those who suffer.
 
I think a problem with a lot of your threads is that you fail to include a comparison group for your arguments. If people fail to lead meaningful lives, what is defined as meaningful and what is defined as meaningless?

Two people can lead very similar lives; one person may feel very satisfied with their life's accomplishments and believe they left a mark on the world, while another may be dismayed at their lack of achievement and tangible artifacts to pass down to future generations.

There needs to be a scale of measurement for people to express their feelings in a way that can generate relevant data. Unfortunately, emotions are often difficult to gauge. Even in hospitals where the pain test is administered to give patients an opportunity to identify their relative degree of pain indicated by various faces, a score of 4 may mean something different to a individual who lives a relatively stress free life versus one who is chronically depressed.

Of course, such a measure would need to be administered across a large representative sample to get a better idea of the distribution of the population. Only mere conjectures can be drawn from personal opinion and casual observation.
 
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This is a matter of Truth vs Ideals. I think it's silly to base one's beliefs on what is more ideal; to reject one possible truth simply because it is undesirable. Truth is truth and you just have to accept it, even if it's painful.
Ideals is exactly what religion is. It is a twisted idealized version of reality through the perspective of those in power. Even 2,000 years ago before modern technology and science, it was obvious to many people that it was nothing more than this. Faith is by definition believing what you know isn't true. Or it wouldn't be faith. Also the bit about truth being truth and having to accept is interesting to me considering you deny Evolution. How do you rationalize that?
 

Jamie

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Atheism is almost entirely about certainty in the end. There's a lot of comfort in that.
Not for me. For me, atheism is about an uncertainty. It's about the pursuit of knowledge and acknowledging that there's a lot we don't know. There's no evidence for a God, and so I don't believe it, but I don't claim to actually know what's behind what's out there. Whatever it is, I think that it's much more amazing than any God we can think up.
 

Jirohnagi

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Not for me. For me, atheism is about an uncertainty. It's about the pursuit of knowledge and acknowledging that there's a lot we don't know. There's no evidence for a God, and so I don't believe it, but I don't claim to actually know what's behind what's out there. Whatever it is, I think that it's much more amazing than any God we can think up.
Not sure how accurate world wide that statement is but around my area, which is mainly atheist with the odd groupings of religion, that statement is true, course we do end up in arguments with the religionists.
 

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