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Loftwings and Other Mounts: An Idea Thread

Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
Alright. So earlier today I listened to one of the latest little podcast bits from Gooey and Mases. They discussed the various mounts in Zelda games, and it just really got me thinking of how you could implement mounts from here on out. For the sake of my own side in this discussion, I'm imagining this in terms of Breath of the Wild, but I'm putting it in the General Zelda subforum because anything you come up with doesn't specifically have to be constrained to this one game, it can be in any future titles you can think of, especially if you'd want those games to focus more heavily on mounts. Furthermore, I'll likely frame any of the things I come up with as a sort of "I wish they'd do this for the DLC" even though I know full well that none of what I suggest is likely to end up in said DLC. It's really just.... a wish list or something. Anyway, on with it.

I would really like to see the inclusion of Loftwings in Breath of the Wild. It's funny because I'm not really.... heh.... not really an ardent fan of Skyward Sword, but honestly I don't want to hold that game against the Loftwings because really they are quite spectacular mounts. It's not their fault they were miserably misused. So, try to divorce any negative feelings you have about that game from the idea of them as mounts from here on out if you can.

I really like their design, they look like beautiful, broad-winged and majestic animals that show compassion and intelligence. That makes for a really cool mount. The BotW game engine would allow for some really enjoyable uses too. You could take to the skies to explore and scout the region, especially if they add any sort of new map sections in this DLC or later packs. Of course, you wouldn't want the Loftwings to do all the heavy lifting in terms of exploration, so I think it would also be a great time to make genuine caves a thing again. You may not have even noticed, but there aren't really any good caves in Breath of the Wild, and since exploring a cave was literally the inception of the series, I think they should make a comeback. But I digress.

Using the Loftwing should feel very grand and free. You should be able to call them from a great distance, much greater than that of your horse. You could create a new type of stable to house them, maybe even some nifty Rito-operated flying building similar to Beedl's shop in Skyward Sword. That way it would make sense that they can get to you from almost anywhere. While riding, you can have Link pull off all sorts of cool moves. You can fly inverted, pull loop-the-loops or other aerial maneuvers, or initiate steep dives or climbs. While doing this, you can have Link's stamina gauge slowly start to deplete. However, unlike when climbing or swimming, you don't have to actually make this into any real sort of challenge that could actually unseat Link. Just having the gauge sapped by these maneuvers would lend a sense of credibility and emotional investment into flight. It should be merely a smokescreen to create the illusion of strenuous control of the animal. Of course, should you actually manage to lose your grip, your Loftwing could wheel around and snag you out of midair. Besides just being visually impressive, I think that would make players feel a measure of attachment to their animal because it's showing that it cares for you.

While you're airborne there should be things actually worth doing. You could use this as an excuse to create new airborne enemies. They already have the little octo-platforms, and you could make versions of those that have fortifications on them. You could make some of them be made of metal as well. That offers a lot of chances for interesting counterplay options: perhaps you fire shock arrows to electrify the platform, or graze it with a thunderspear as you fly past. Or maybe you snag the whole thing with your Magnesis rune, dragging it through the air, pulling it free of the octoroks holding it, and then drop it to send the enemies plummeting to their demise. Or there could be larger ones, great flying aeries full of enemies mounted on giant Keese-like creatures that you must battle in the skies over Hyrule. Just imagine being spotted by a lookout, their warning horns splitting the air, and the flying tower suddenly disgorging a squadron of skybound enemies. You could have a midair joust with a Moblin, or climb high into the clouds to avoid volleys of arrows, then dive with deathly speed on your opponents.

Of course, hidden within the possibilities of these animals is the ability to deal with another great bugbear of this game, the weather. How many times have you seen people lament the onset of rain or thunderstorms just when they wanted to do something that involved climbing? Well, perhaps you could call your Loftwing over, and prompt it to lend some shelter with its great wing, allowing you to build a campfire and wait out the storm. Once it passes, your feathered companion shakes off the water and you're both on your way!

But then there's the matter of how you even manage to catch them in the first place. After all, they spend a great deal of time in the air. You can't rightly sneak up on them like you would a horse. I think the method should be fundamentally different. Let's say you see them in the sky, or maybe you find a nest or some other evidence that they're around. Maybe you set out some food. The food could be color coded for the one you want to get. For instance, maybe you want a red one so you could set out some apples or perhaps a nice juicy Staminoka Bass. Or putting out Rushrooms, Mighty Bananas, or Hearty Bass could net you a Purple, Yellow, or Blue Loftwing. Once they come to the ground to accept your presented meal, you cautiously approach them and offer a hand for them to nuzzle against. After all, flying would be something that requires great trust between both mount and rider, so somehow it just feels right that a more mutually accepted relationship be struck. Perhaps, if you want to get some more depth out of the game element, the food you use as bait could influence the stats of the Loftwing you might attract. Maybe putting out a Staminoka Bass as suggested above has a greater chance to get you a Loftwing with whose highest stat is Stamina. After all, it stands to reason that a bird which favors that as its meal of choice would have build up quite a bit of stamina.

Anyway, apparently people don't like long OPs, so I'll tie this one off for now. I'm very interested to know what people think of my rough ideas, or what ideas you may have of your own. (maybe next time I'll talk about my idea for Lynels as mounts...)
 
If people dont like long OPs that cleary illustrate your points and better put forward your thoughts, ideas and feelings on a topic then they're misunderstanding the use of a forum in the first place so if you have more to say i'd like to hear it because i'm on board with pretty much everything you had to say.

I don't like SS either but the best thing about it were the Loftwings. Their design was great but they weren't used well at all and had way more potential in my opinion that was just never tapped into.

It boggles my mind that they arent included in an 'open air' adventure and really, to me, the only reason horses exist in BotW is because of OoT. For all BotW tried to change things up, the horses seemed to be included just to evoke OoT style feelings of travelling a large world on horseback like we did on Epona all those years ago which blew our minds. Its just a shame that the horses in BotW cant handle anything other than a flat path. Loftwings would have been a much better idea, especially with the verticality of the world.

I like your idea of how food could influence the Loftwing's colour and stats. I like the idea of holding the food and having it take it from you as a sign of trust before youre able to mount it. That's a good idea and adds another layer to the food system of BotW. Finding Loftwing nests is something else I like, grown Loftwings are fairly huge, so like the giant horse in BotW perhaps you could find younger Loftwings in the nest with different stats too. Perhaps different sizes could have different vertical limits when riding them tied to either Link's or their own stamina.

I've heard it argued that Loftwings would somewhat break the game and defeat the point of the climbing mechanic. Well, as i just said, i think a vertical limit would go a long way to balancing the freedom a Loftwing could give. Loftwings you find grazing the ground could have short vertical limits as opposed to those you'd find roosting on higher land. Or perhaps the food you feed them dictates the altitude they can achieve and special meals could have you get higher as you progress through the game. Or you could tie it to the affection meter that the horses have in BotW. If you pet it and fill its handling stats it'll then fly higher the more it is used. I think its completely doable to have Loftwings in the game and not have them make the climbing mechanic obsolete.

Combat on a Loftwing would be awesome. I was gutted in SS that we couldnt fly at night, shoot arrows while flying or have aerial jousting matches or any form of weapon combat at all. It was a massively missed opportunity. Having that in BotW would be stellar. We could have new aerial enemies, we could have the bird have its own moveset like barrel rolls and essentially have our own little living Arwing from Star Fox in Zelda.

I like the idea of finding/crafting armour for the Loftwing too. Riding a Loftwing would be dangerous in a lightning storm, even without metallic weapons you'll probably still get hit if youre high enough so i think having armour and protective clothing for your Loftwing would be nice; leather to help against lightning and electric atracks (especially if you try fly alongside Farosh, which would be incredible by the way), heat proof armour to fly around Death Mountain etc, otherwise you'd be in danger of killing your Loftwing with the climate.


Like i said, not having Loftwings in an open air adventure boggles my damn mind. The horses arent used very well and it makes BotW feel clunky when compared to the other 3D Zelda games. Loftwings should have been the way they went. One can only hope they appear in DLC but i think its asking for far too much far too late.

If open air is the way Zelda is gonna go then Loftwings need to comeback to fill the 'air' part of that promise.
 

Ninja

Well well well
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
I think the sky would have to be a whole newer region, because if we have Loftwings, it would completely offset the aspect of climbing in the game.

Why waste a half hour climbing up a tough, snowy mountain if I could just call my Loftwing and fly up there? I don't think that's something Nintedo would go for, no matter how cool it would be. As much as a pain in the ass thunderstorms are, that's exactly what the game intends as, "roughing the wild".

Don't get me wrong, the concept of having additional aerial enemies and having the ability to fly around Hyrule sounds great, I think it would need some restrictions and boundaries to avoid making climbing useless. Perhaps once you reach a certain altitude, the screen fades into a new area where climbing is irrelevant and it's just the sky you are dealing with, with a few sky "landmarks" like a Skyloft type village.
 
Yes, yes, lynels as mounts. Also lynels as friends. More than mounts because they are friends. Imagine like the attack inputs while on their back is having them respond and attack while you just chill. Yes. And their high HP makes them a reliable companion unlike those wimpy horses. Maybe they could even fight alongside you if they like you enough. Also since there's a surplus of armor, give them one of your extra tunics so they can be stylish. :goron: Lynels don't get bridles, they get armor because they are cool and fashionable creatures. Yes, Mr. Stable Owner, I'd like to give my good friend Kitty a flower crown for his fluffy blue pink mane, and a snowquill tunic, please and thank.

I'm a huge fan of Rune Factory, and that game lets you befriend monsters, some of which you can ride and all of which will fight alongside you so maybe I'm just being a spoiled potato.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
It boggles my mind that they arent included in an 'open air' adventure and really, to me, the only reason horses exist in BotW is because of OoT. For all BotW tried to change things up, the horses seemed to be included just to evoke OoT style feelings of travelling a large world on horseback like we did on Epona all those years ago which blew our minds. Its just a shame that the horses in BotW cant handle anything other than a flat path. Loftwings would have been a much better idea, especially with the verticality of the world.

I think this is precisely why they weren't implemented in this game. Yes, it is as you say, there is an emphasis on verticality but that emphasis is on forcing the player to explore how they intend to... well... explore it. Do you grind shrines and level up your stamina bar? Use gear that speeds up your climb? Use food buffs to push past your limitations and get to the top? Exploit some physics tricks to boost yourself? Ride a stasis boulder to your destination? Climb some other taller, yet easier to scale surface and paraglide over? If you could simply fly to the top of everything, that would likely have shortchanged all the other design aspects they worked so hard to achieve. Sorta like when you go to a shrine and instead of doing the clever puzzle solution you just burn everything with fire arrows, but on a much grander scale. However, I feel that now the game has been out for a while, and the DLC seems to be tied to the player beating Ganon, that makes for a perfect gating mechanism. Just because their emphasis was on nonlinearity doesn't mean they have to shy away from every single gating mechanism.

I've heard it argued that Loftwings would somewhat break the game and defeat the point of the climbing mechanic. Well, as i just said, i think a vertical limit would go a long way to balancing the freedom a Loftwing could give. Loftwings you find grazing the ground could have short vertical limits as opposed to those you'd find roosting on higher land. Or perhaps the food you feed them dictates the altitude they can achieve and special meals could have you get higher as you progress through the game. Or you could tie it to the affection meter that the horses have in BotW. If you pet it and fill its handling stats it'll then fly higher the more it is used. I think its completely doable to have Loftwings in the game and not have them make the climbing mechanic obsolete.

This is why I suggest making caves a thing again. In fact, you would not even need to make a new map area, you could just make some deus ex machina event that goes "boop now there's caves everywhere". I mean, that's what the Towers did in the first place anyway. The reason being this: Loftwings aren't broken if they don't allow you to "go everywhere". You can't really explore a cave on birdback. So there's still plenty of places where you can funnel the player into various traversal challenges that the Loftwing can't break. But you could, for instance, use your Loftwing to scout the side of a mountain or some rugged foothills and when you spy a cave you can either land to explore it or mark it on your map for later delving. You could even make the caves get really dark if they happen to be deep, giving players who likely by now have full or nearly full inventory screens a reason to carry around a torch or two.

As for combat, I was thinking that you should be limited in what you can use. For starters, it might be cool if there was a sort of bow that was great for mounted combat. Some cultures became famous for their horsebows, which had to be designed and constructed with a compact nature in mind. So I think it would be cool if special mounted bows and Spear-class weapons were the only things you could use while flying. After all, because of the wings, you can't really swing a sword from birdback like you can from horseback, because much of mounted swordsmanship relies on swooping, cleaving swings down the flank of the animal.... and you can't really do them without cutting off your Loftwing's wings. Because without wings, Loftwings are just Lofts. And they won't be that way for very long without wings!

I had also meant to mention the weather. I think flying in a thunderstorm should essentially counts as one tier of attraction for lighting (so it's like having a single piece of metal equipment), so you should land the moment a bad storm starts lest you risk being struck. Thinking about that is what made me get the idea for having your loftwing allow you to build a fire even in the rain.

Also, this just popped into my head randomly, think of how cool it would be to fight something like a Stone Talus while airborne!

But aside from all that, it sorta makes sense from a thematic perspective why you are sorta ground-bound in this game. The world is essentially one without hope, so long as Calamity Ganon looms over Hyrule Castle. But if you do what I said and make them part of the DLC, then they actually fit really well. A world where Ganon has been purged and banished is a world where hope flies free, and what better way to symbolize such an uplifted state than with the inclusion of Loftwings?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
Yes, yes, lynels as mounts. Also lynels as friends. More than mounts because they are friends. Imagine like the attack inputs while on their back is having them respond and attack while you just chill. Yes. And their high HP makes them a reliable companion unlike those wimpy horses. Maybe they could even fight alongside you if they like you enough. Also since there's a surplus of armor, give them one of your extra tunics so they can be stylish. :goron: Lynels don't get bridles, they get armor because they are cool and fashionable creatures. Yes, Mr. Stable Owner, I'd like to give my good friend Kitty a flower crown for his fluffy blue pink mane, and a snowquill tunic, please and thank.

I'm a huge fan of Rune Factory, and that game lets you befriend monsters, some of which you can ride and all of which will fight alongside you so maybe I'm just being a spoiled potato.
I think there should be a sort of "Kilton Stable", where you can board monstrous mounts. Then maybe there can be some sort of quest associated with it, and the culmination of that quest is the ability to ride lynel. Once you get one, you can ride around and attack with them and stuff. However, since they like challenges, if you go too long without attacking something then they will try to buck you off (much like deer do). Each time they try to get rid of you, it gets much harder to stay on until eventually you can't anymore. This would allow them to gate their use somewhat, as eventually you'll hit a stretch without significant enemies and be forced off. I can also see their being a sort of metagame where people try to figure out optimal paths that allow you to keep your Lynel as long as possible.
 

Libk

Spaceballs: The Mafia Player
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Location
Spaceball 1
I think there is room for a lot of other mounts to be added to future Zelda games, but as long as they matter. I don't want loftwings with nothing to do in the air. I don't want boats with nothing at sea. You know? The modes of transport need meaning
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
I think there is room for a lot of other mounts to be added to future Zelda games, but as long as they matter. I don't want loftwings with nothing to do in the air. I don't want boats with nothing at sea. You know? The modes of transport need meaning
Yeah I agree. I think it is absolutely in their power to add some really awesome stuff, especially if they add it to the sky because then they don't have to change the ground in any way, or create any new continents. Though I could see them just as easily doing something like the Dragonborn DLC from Skyrim, where you got a whole new island. It wasn't nearly as big as all of Skyrim, but to add another 20ish hours of gameplay? Yeah, it certainly did that.
 

Shroom

The Artist Formally Known as Deku Shroom™
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Gender
Fun Guy
I was always really fond of the mounts you get in the oracle games. I think Ricky is the only one that would maybe be awkward to transition to 3D, but Moosh and Dimitri could likely be transferred over to THIRD DIMENSION™ without too many issues. I always loved their art style and design and it felt like they were more than just some animal you rode; they were characters within the games.

If Zelda does keep up the sort of world and exploration of BOTW, then I think it'd be neat to have a mount that could help you swim and climb. Climbing especially would be useful if they could manage to do it in a much more efficient way that Link can't do on his own because climbing is one of the primary forms of movement within the game. Make my life easier other than making me wear an outfit and cook a bunch, gimmie some cool/weird climbing creature, like a larger Mogma or something, I don't know, Zelda has shown us some weird stuff before, get creative.

As far as a flying mount goes, I feel like it's somewhat hard to do without making it seem like it breaks the game? I think something along the lines of what Spirit said, where it's a reward for completing something like all the shrines in the game, or something similar would make it seem balanced and also a genuine reward. Another way I think we could make this work is if you took a mount and gave it the ability to glide, but at a faster pace than Link's paraglider, and with the ability to move upward a limited number of times before tiring out. OR, maybe we get a "mount" that isn't quite an animal, but we take some inspiration from our dear friend Tingle and get the use of a balloon that could fly us up and move us around semi-indefinitely, but maybe at a slower rate, and also with the risk of said balloon popping, but not like an octorok balloon that pops after a short amount of time, but with a more avoidable threat, like enemy arrows or maybe some natural obstacles like icicles or thorns.

The thing that is nice with a series like Zelda is that you can introduce seemingly silly or bizarre things into the world, and they just sort of work. My favorite mount from BOTW wasn't any of the special horses or Satori (sp, I don't remember), but actually the sand seals. Those things were so weird to me, but I love them. I love shield surfing, I love that a creature exists that makes traversing a seemingly boring desert into a quicker and more bearable ride, and also pretty fun if you want to get creative. I'd really like to see more of these types of mounts show up where they're native to an environment that they can traverse very easily, but they aren't forced down your throat. Yeah, I could get a seal to take me across the desert, but I don't have to. The options of mounts like this would be pretty nice in my opinion, and you'd never really have to worry about going to a stable to pick one up, you'd just find it out while you were exploring, tame it for a bit, and then part ways when your job is done. This could also give an extra layer to cooking and materials because certain foods could attract certain mounts and make them easier to sneak up like some members suggested above.

There's a lot of options, and I'm pretty hopeful for the future games. As a kid, I always thought it'd be neat if Link had some futuristic beam sword and rode a motorcycle, and ya know what:


400px-BreathoftheWildWeaponListGuardianSword.jpg
tumblr_nelakqoHZi1sntotwo1_500.png


Don't let anyone tell you it's impossible, because dreams do come true! (Unless your idea is stupid, then you should feel bad).
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
As far as a flying mount goes, I feel like it's somewhat hard to do without making it seem like it breaks the game? I think something along the lines of what Spirit said, where it's a reward for completing something like all the shrines in the game, or something similar would make it seem balanced and also a genuine reward. Another way I think we could make this work is if you took a mount and gave it the ability to glide, but at a faster pace than Link's paraglider, and with the ability to move upward a limited number of times before tiring out. OR, maybe we get a "mount" that isn't quite an animal, but we take some inspiration from our dear friend Tingle and get the use of a balloon that could fly us up and move us around semi-indefinitely, but maybe at a slower rate, and also with the risk of said balloon popping, but not like an octorok balloon that pops after a short amount of time, but with a more avoidable threat, like enemy arrows or maybe some natural obstacles like icicles or thorns.
Right. Obviously as I mentioned before, I don't want them to be just given to you, you should really do something to earn them. But I don't want them to be restricted, either. It seems Spirit and I are of a mind about this, but this game is about capital 'F' Freedom. And giving you a flying mount only to impose a bunch of dumb rules would just really chafe. I don't want something that just jumps or glides or floats, because those don't significantly alter your traversal or gameplay when compared to abilities you already have access to, such as Revali's Gale.

There are other ways that you could control how powerful they are. Spirit suggested special barding to allow them access to higher altitudes, or extreme climates. That's one way. Or maybe, you just say that they can't operate in those conditions. I don't think it's unfair to bar certain areas for flying mounts. Two areas that rely heavily on their verticality are Death Mountain and Mount Lanyru, both of which can be shielded by their extreme weather. The Hebra region also has a lot of climbing to do, and not only is it cold but visibility is so poor that flying isn't very useful there anyway, save for hitting a few very obvious points like the Tower, Labyrinth, and Stables. In fact, that makes me thing that you could use the Towers as a great way to restrict Loftwings, just make it something you have to have all of them completed to gain access to (along with other stipulations). And on the subject of exclusive biomes, the Gerudo Desert has both hot and cold, and while there isn't a ton of climbing to do, it has the aforementioned Sand Seals, so it's not unreasonable to restrict Loftwings there either. They already give you an alternate mount for the area.

By the way, I agree that Sand Seals are fun. I love riding them into battle and getting head shots with my bow, all the while surfing circles around my opponents. Good times.
 

Hyrulian Hero

Zelda Informer Codger
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Location
SoDak
I was always really fond of the mounts you get in the oracle games. I think Ricky is the only one that would maybe be awkward to transition to 3D, but Moosh and Dimitri could likely be transferred over to THIRD DIMENSION™ without too many issues. I always loved their art style and design and it felt like they were more than just some animal you rode; they were characters within the games.

If Zelda does keep up the sort of world and exploration of BOTW, then I think it'd be neat to have a mount that could help you swim and climb. Climbing especially would be useful if they could manage to do it in a much more efficient way that Link can't do on his own because climbing is one of the primary forms of movement within the game. Make my life easier other than making me wear an outfit and cook a bunch, gimmie some cool/weird climbing creature, like a larger Mogma or something, I don't know, Zelda has shown us some weird stuff before, get creative.

As far as a flying mount goes, I feel like it's somewhat hard to do without making it seem like it breaks the game? I think something along the lines of what Spirit said, where it's a reward for completing something like all the shrines in the game, or something similar would make it seem balanced and also a genuine reward. Another way I think we could make this work is if you took a mount and gave it the ability to glide, but at a faster pace than Link's paraglider, and with the ability to move upward a limited number of times before tiring out. OR, maybe we get a "mount" that isn't quite an animal, but we take some inspiration from our dear friend Tingle and get the use of a balloon that could fly us up and move us around semi-indefinitely, but maybe at a slower rate, and also with the risk of said balloon popping, but not like an octorok balloon that pops after a short amount of time, but with a more avoidable threat, like enemy arrows or maybe some natural obstacles like icicles or thorns.

The thing that is nice with a series like Zelda is that you can introduce seemingly silly or bizarre things into the world, and they just sort of work. My favorite mount from BOTW wasn't any of the special horses or Satori (sp, I don't remember), but actually the sand seals. Those things were so weird to me, but I love them. I love shield surfing, I love that a creature exists that makes traversing a seemingly boring desert into a quicker and more bearable ride, and also pretty fun if you want to get creative. I'd really like to see more of these types of mounts show up where they're native to an environment that they can traverse very easily, but they aren't forced down your throat. Yeah, I could get a seal to take me across the desert, but I don't have to. The options of mounts like this would be pretty nice in my opinion, and you'd never really have to worry about going to a stable to pick one up, you'd just find it out while you were exploring, tame it for a bit, and then part ways when your job is done. This could also give an extra layer to cooking and materials because certain foods could attract certain mounts and make them easier to sneak up like some members suggested above.

There's a lot of options, and I'm pretty hopeful for the future games. As a kid, I always thought it'd be neat if Link had some futuristic beam sword and rode a motorcycle, and ya know what:


400px-BreathoftheWildWeaponListGuardianSword.jpg
tumblr_nelakqoHZi1sntotwo1_500.png


Don't let anyone tell you it's impossible, because dreams do come true! (Unless your idea is stupid, then you should feel bad).

MOOOOOOOOOSH!!! I love that big lug, he's my favorite mount EVAR! Bring him back. Now.

Unfortunately, although I think it could be done right and BotW Hyrule could contain loftwings perfectly, if they weren't severely handicapped, I think they would hurt the exploration in certain ways. It would, I believe, do damage to the climbing aspect of the game, as well a making the carefully crafted landscape less entertaining and implicative. I think I would give them a thumbs-up if they were tied to a certain area so you'd sneak up on them in a field and once you mounted them, you had a small area in which you could fly. The way Zelda is crafted, that would probably mean there would be a flock in several strategic places around Hyrule where they would only be useful for one or two things ibn their respective areas. Or they could last only the length of your stamina bar. Perhaps if they sucked stamina, a single ring could last for maybe twenty seconds. Then, of course, it would be easy to abuse that by eating dishes. Maybe every ring used, the stamina would drop faster until it would only last a quarter of a second between each "dish eat". Meh, whatever. Good thought.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
MOOOOOOOOOSH!!! I love that big lug, he's my favorite mount EVAR! Bring him back. Now.

Unfortunately, although I think it could be done right and BotW Hyrule could contain loftwings perfectly, if they weren't severely handicapped, I think they would hurt the exploration in certain ways. It would, I believe, do damage to the climbing aspect of the game, as well a making the carefully crafted landscape less entertaining and implicative. I think I would give them a thumbs-up if they were tied to a certain area so you'd sneak up on them in a field and once you mounted them, you had a small area in which you could fly. The way Zelda is crafted, that would probably mean there would be a flock in several strategic places around Hyrule where they would only be useful for one or two things ibn their respective areas. Or they could last only the length of your stamina bar. Perhaps if they sucked stamina, a single ring could last for maybe twenty seconds. Then, of course, it would be easy to abuse that by eating dishes. Maybe every ring used, the stamina would drop faster until it would only last a quarter of a second between each "dish eat". Meh, whatever. Good thought.
You forget that people could simply... not use them. Because of the way the game is designed, climbing isn't actually a gating mechanic like it would be in most games. There is virtually nowhere that you can't get to by climbing if you try hard enough. Gather more wheels, spam food, fly on rocks, climb somewhere higher but more easily and glide over... there is literally no reason to say "well if you have this then people won't climb" because climbing doesn't actually restrict you from doing anything, it just forces you to come up with your own fun way to get there. And if people like the Loftwings, then they should be able to use them. If they'd rather have the challenge, then they'll do that. And people WILL do things to preserve the challenge and fun, as the community of players have already demonstrated: speed runs, low or no gear runs, naked runs, Mop runs, turning off Champion powers, no climbing runs, no food runs, not upgrading armor or maintaining an Armor Rating cap are just a few. This game is all about having fun the way you want to in this world.
 

Hyrulian Hero

Zelda Informer Codger
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Location
SoDak
You forget that people could simply... not use them. Because of the way the game is designed, climbing isn't actually a gating mechanic like it would be in most games. There is virtually nowhere that you can't get to by climbing if you try hard enough. Gather more wheels, spam food, fly on rocks, climb somewhere higher but more easily and glide over... there is literally no reason to say "well if you have this then people won't climb" because climbing doesn't actually restrict you from doing anything, it just forces you to come up with your own fun way to get there. And if people like the Loftwings, then they should be able to use them. If they'd rather have the challenge, then they'll do that. And people WILL do things to preserve the challenge and fun, as the community of players have already demonstrated: speed runs, low or no gear runs, naked runs, Mop runs, turning off Champion powers, no climbing runs, no food runs, not upgrading armor or maintaining an Armor Rating cap are just a few. This game is all about having fun the way you want to in this world.

Simmer now, I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that there's a reason there isn't a weapon that does 10,000 damage or a horse that direct warps you anywhere you want in the game in an instant or armor that makes you 100% impervious to all damage. Do you honestly believe these things wouldn't damage the integrity of the game? I don't believe you do, I believe you simply want Loftwings in the game. If this is the case, let's be honest and admit that there are actually pros AND cons.

Loftwings would absolutely take away from the mystique of the land. The fast travel already did that to some degree, just as it does in many games. It's the same reason why cheat codes killed games back in the day: a well crafted game maintains a balance in difficulty. When a character becomes more powerful (i.e., gains the ability to fly), the game must change to accommodate this to maintain a challenge. When the challenge lessens, progress becomes less rewarding to the player. Because of this, it stands to reason that because BotW was built on exploration NOT including flight, the ability to fly would mitigate the challenge of traversing the world: fighting monsters, solving puzzels, discovering the world the way it was built to be discovered.

If the world had been built to be explored from the sky, that area would need fierce enemies, puzzels, limitations, and unique solutions to make sky travel less advantageous as it has clear advantages over land travel. I can't think of a way to make it work because in most games, when you come upon a new mode of travel, the old one becomes obsolete (fast travel over horse travel). If anyone could think of a way to actually make air travel work without murdering the exploration aspect of BotW, it would be Nintendo, but they obviously choose not to and I approve of the decision.

My thought is that, if they had simply added Loftwings to the game as it is, the first several minutes of breathtaking freedom would be stunning and wonderful and the entire game following that, we would all take it for granted. I believe the fact that we don't have Loftwings forces us to see the forest for the trees. Nintendo knows its audience and understands people will strive to upgrade and win in a game so if they gave us the option to ride a Loftwing, 99% of us (including myself) would ride the Loftwing. And that would simply have made BotW less fulfilling. The fact that "nobody is forcing you" to fully experience a game isn't a reason to give people the option to make a game less fulfilling for themselves (Nintendo likes their games to be enjoyed because they like money). Had Nintendo dropped Loftwings into BotW, you can be sure that plenty of people (including myself) would have walked away from the game saying, "the game got a little too easy when I could call my Loftwings like a horse."

Of course, there would also be plenty of people who raved about how cool it was to see Hyrule from above. I suppose it's a difference of opinion but I just really appreciated how the game was tailored to catch your eye at every turn as you are running from place to place over, through, and around the terrain you would never encounter from the sky. No matter what, mad props to Nintendo for making a game that's just what it should have been the way it is and here's to the next game being built specifically to accommodate Loftwings because if anyone can do it right, it's Nintendo.
 

Jirohnagi

Braava Braava
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Soul Sanctum
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Geosexual
I'd kill for aerial and nautical travel. Just to fly and be able to shoot enemies from high. Hell we got enemies with floating bases now so why not?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
Simmer now, I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that there's a reason there isn't a weapon that does 10,000 damage or a horse that direct warps you anywhere you want in the game in an instant or armor that makes you 100% impervious to all damage. Do you honestly believe these things wouldn't damage the integrity of the game? I don't believe you do, I believe you simply want Loftwings in the game. If this is the case, let's be honest and admit that there are actually pros AND cons.

Loftwings would absolutely take away from the mystique of the land. The fast travel already did that to some degree, just as it does in many games. It's the same reason why cheat codes killed games back in the day: a well crafted game maintains a balance in difficulty. When a character becomes more powerful (i.e., gains the ability to fly), the game must change to accommodate this to maintain a challenge. When the challenge lessens, progress becomes less rewarding to the player. Because of this, it stands to reason that because BotW was built on exploration NOT including flight, the ability to fly would mitigate the challenge of traversing the world: fighting monsters, solving puzzels, discovering the world the way it was built to be discovered.

If the world had been built to be explored from the sky, that area would need fierce enemies, puzzels, limitations, and unique solutions to make sky travel less advantageous as it has clear advantages over land travel. I can't think of a way to make it work because in most games, when you come upon a new mode of travel, the old one becomes obsolete (fast travel over horse travel). If anyone could think of a way to actually make air travel work without murdering the exploration aspect of BotW, it would be Nintendo, but they obviously choose not to and I approve of the decision.

My thought is that, if they had simply added Loftwings to the game as it is, the first several minutes of breathtaking freedom would be stunning and wonderful and the entire game following that, we would all take it for granted. I believe the fact that we don't have Loftwings forces us to see the forest for the trees. Nintendo knows its audience and understands people will strive to upgrade and win in a game so if they gave us the option to ride a Loftwing, 99% of us (including myself) would ride the Loftwing. And that would simply have made BotW less fulfilling. The fact that "nobody is forcing you" to fully experience a game isn't a reason to give people the option to make a game less fulfilling for themselves (Nintendo likes their games to be enjoyed because they like money). Had Nintendo dropped Loftwings into BotW, you can be sure that plenty of people (including myself) would have walked away from the game saying, "the game got a little too easy when I could call my Loftwings like a horse."

Of course, there would also be plenty of people who raved about how cool it was to see Hyrule from above. I suppose it's a difference of opinion but I just really appreciated how the game was tailored to catch your eye at every turn as you are running from place to place over, through, and around the terrain you would never encounter from the sky. No matter what, mad props to Nintendo for making a game that's just what it should have been the way it is and here's to the next game being built specifically to accommodate Loftwings because if anyone can do it right, it's Nintendo.
I think you're missing my point. I don't want them as a feature of the base game, I want them as the Breath of the Wild equivalent of end-game content. I've already spent 400+ hours enjoying the world as they intended me to. I absolutely love the game the way it was designed, and I love all the time I had schlepping around on foot.

Now, I want my gorram bird. ^_^
 

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