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Linear Timeline Theory

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Somewhere small
Locke:
The Hyrule we haven't explored yet is the ST Hyrule -- New Hyrule. The one that at that point is the only Hyrule that exists. If the water recedes, that wouldn't mean much of anything until a great catastrophe hits this new Hyrule, forcing everyone off again. That hasn't happened yet, since the potential of exploration and games in this new Kingdom hasn't happened.

It also sits at odds with the theory this thread presented which put FS/FSA after ST, thus re-establishing legends from Old Hyrule, and old villains as well. The FourSword and Vaati from Minish Cap... and Ganon. And the legend of the Triforce which at this point we have no reason to believe has followed into New Hyrule yet (unless some new Triforce 'rules' were established during SS).

I get the idea for potential, but while we already have a land mass filled with potential then the sea receding, the wasteland that was Old Hyrule, or any new landmasses that the monarchy can claim, are all ungrounded speculation. It is, amusingly, putting too much thought into it. :P

But I'll stop cluttering the thread with this. ;) The Great Sea's importance dwindles after PH/ST, and FS/FSA contain direct connections to MC so should not be assumed to happen after the flood. FSA also contains a Ganon (who is sealed at the end), and a connection to
the Triforce. There's a neat little sequence after you beat the game in Hyrule Castle where Zelda watches certain proceedings before passing under an arch with the Triforce on which glows, suggesting it has importance to the next game/game in that line.

That's enough outta me for now, and I'm glad to see good discussion going on. :)
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
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Location
Redmond, Washington
It seems to me like you're stuck on the people of New Hyrule moving back to the location of old Hyrule. That's not what I (or the OP, I think) am suggesting at all. Both locations would progress independently, potentially completely unaware of each other. Seeing knowledge/legends appear in the old location by no means requires that knowledge to have been passed to New Hyrule. I think the the OP is claiming is that ST might as well not exist, as far as FS/FSA is concerned.
 

Subzerostupid

Subzerostupid
Joined
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Location
In the closet, with the cookie monster
Locke:
If you use the cap origin as evidence, then MC must come before SS.
i don't know what hapenned here. I have never used the cap origin as evidence and i don't even really think it matters all that much. I always figured that Ezlo just happened to be the cap in that game. It's just that everyone else seems to think it is the origin of the cap, yet still place it after SS. it's always confused me, but i figured someone had an explanation, or no-one would do that. I probably should never have mentioned it. I don't actually believe the cap origin stuff and SS is definitely first.
LoZ does have a backstory that you're overlooking: LttP. (The Japanese translation also says something to the effect of LttP taking place long before Link [from LoZ] embarks on his adventure.)
I know it has A backstory, but i didn't know there was that strong a link between LttP then LoZ. I'll try to think of something.
This makes no sense after AoL. Ganon's dead, and the Triforce is in the hands of the Kingdom. (After reading the Triforce section of your post, I see you believe it was sent to the SR after the with in AoL. I'll retract my statement, for now.)
I swear i've read that the triforce goes back to the sacred realm after each use of its wish. I'll try to find it again and show it here.
Not as a "gift". I posted my theory in another thread, about Link coming back in time with the ToC and the other pieces distributing themselves accordingly (this was actually confirmed in the Hyrule Historia, I think).
I thought this could happen, but i can't remember what i thought next to rule it out. It does make perfect sense, but TheGermanLegend's idea about TP ganon being a bunshin, given the ToP by OoT ganon from the sacred realm after being sealed there by OoT link+sages both fits the 'divine prank' and the state of the triforce criteria better, so i'll keep the 'triforce glitch', as i like to call it, on the side for now.
1. How does Ganon being defeated twice by Link not contradict that he went unchallenged until being sealed by the Gods?
correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think the intro to WW specifically says what happened to ganon, just that the people prayed to the gods. I don't think it says that they flooded Hyrule. It could just as easily have been that the gods made it so that LttP link was born then to defeat ganon, answering the people's prayers.
2. Why is there no mention of a flood in OoX/LA? Just because there's water in LA doesn't mean there was a flood. The manual simply states that he was on a journey across the sea, home to Hyrule (which is supposedly still there, not underwater).
I haven't played OoX (LA's sequel), so i don't know, but i've been told that OoX led to a flood in the games' conclusion, which is why LA is in water. I haven't heard until now that he was just sailing home.
In addition to the issues with the flood, we have Ganon and the Triforce again. Ganon's dead in OoX, while WW starts off with him escaping the Gods' flood seal.
Is LttP/OoX ganon specified as the same one? If not, the OoX ganon could be an attempted revival of TP ganon.
He's also supposedly had the ToP since being defeated by the HoT (in OoT),
I believe that the ToP, or whatever bit of it was in TP ganon went back to OoT ganon (still trapped in the sacred realm) after TP bunshin ganon died, as its actual holder.
and the ToC is still scattered in eight pieces across old Hyrule, which happened when the HoT left on his adventure.
:O oh! Having not played WW, i didn't know this. Is it specified that the ToC is as from OoT?
It's never placed in the castle, but it is placed in the ToT a lot, which the chamber in WW greatly resembles. (There's another active thread that deals with this discussion.)
Oh, someone said the MS was in hyrule castle at the beginnning of WW, can't remember who. If it's in the ToT, then it fits fine.
Small detail, it's in Hyrule Castle in OoX.
Oh. I read somewhere it was at the top of the pyramid in the sacred realm from LttP. Not sure how to explain this. :(
"Never theorize before you have data. Invariably, you end up twisting facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
— Sherlock Holmes
If the facts don't line up, maybe it's the theory that's wrong...
I know. I practically live by this quote, it's just hard for me to get OoX, FSA, WW anywhere, so i can't get the facts, which is why this thread has been immensely helpful. I'm probably going to scrap the timeline and start anew, given that so much is being pulled apart.
ToP: Remains with Ganon after he was sealed in the SR, and later in the flood seal.
ToW: Split in two. One passed down through Zelda's descendants (to Tetra), one stayed with Daphnes.
ToC: Split in eight and scattered across Hyrule when the Hero of Time left the AT. The Hero of Winds must retrieve the pieces from the bottom of the ocean.
Yeah, the triforce thing gets really screwed up in my timeline. I'll scrap it and make a new one.:mad: After so much too, but everything i've learnt should help a lot with a new one.

Satsy:
FS/FSA contain direct connections to MC so should not be assumed to happen after the flood.
Why, just because they have the same sword and Vaati. There's no way to tell how long passed between MC and FS (or is there someting i've missed?)
FSA also contains a Ganon (who is sealed at the end), and a connection to the Triforce. There's a neat little sequence after you beat the game in Hyrule Castle where Zelda watches certain proceedings before passing under an arch with the Triforce on which glows, suggesting it has importance to the next game/game in that line.
Trifore in FSA? :mad: I'm going to get everything written out for each game before piecing them together.
I'm glad to see good discussion going on. :)
Me too :D:clap:

Locke 2:
It seems to me like you're stuck on the people of New Hyrule moving back to the location of old Hyrule. That's not what I (or the OP, I think) am suggesting at all. Both locations would progress independently, potentially completely unaware of each other. Seeing knowledge/legends appear in the old location by no means requires that knowledge to have been passed to New Hyrule. I think the the OP is claiming is that ST might as well not exist, as far as FS/FSA is concerned.
Yes, thank you for clearing that up.

General:
I'll get some stuff together and post it over the weekend. I won't put all the games in, so we can work together to see where each game goes, to avoid several games' placings being picked at all at once.
Thank you everyone so far for everything you've told me; it's been a great help for the games i haven't played. I couldn't do this without you guys.;)
:thinking:
 
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I haven't played OoX (LA's sequel), so i don't know, but i've been told that OoX led to a flood in the games' conclusion, which is why LA is in water. I haven't heard until now that he was just sailing home.
Well, In OoX Hyrule is just a normal country. Labrynna and Holodrum are it's neighborhoodcountrys. (Or as I belive provinces of Hyrule just like Ordon in TP, because Labrynna had a own royal family in the past which isn't presented anywere in the present. So i think it became part of Hyrules Provincess.) the Triforce teleports Link to the countrys at the beginning of each game, so he has to go back by boat at the end. There is no flood at all mentioned.

:O oh! Having not played WW, i didn't know this. Is it specified that the ToC is as from OoT?
I don't have the actual quote but the King said somethink about the ToC splitting when the HoT goes back to the past at the end of OoT. I never considert this quote important, because the King wasn't even present at the end of OoT, he was probably born centuries after OoT. And the pieces were also hidden in chests, so I don't belive it simply splitted. I belive it went back to the SR, (where it was found by Ganon) and hidden later.
 
N

noother84

Guest
I don't have the actual quote but the King said somethink about the ToC splitting when the HoT goes back to the past at the end of OoT. I never considert this quote important, because the King wasn't even present at the end of OoT, he was probably born centuries after OoT. And the pieces were also hidden in chests, so I don't belive it simply splitted. I belive it went back to the SR, (where it was found by Ganon) and hidden later.
Here you go:

"Once, long ago, he defeated Ganon and brought peace to the Kingdom of Hyrule... A piece of the Triforce was given to the Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as Zelda kept hers. That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land." — King of Red Lions

I swear i've read that the triforce goes back to the sacred realm after each use of its wish. I'll try to find it again and show it here.
Since LTTP/OoX/LA are all the same Link, and the Triforce is in Hyrule Castle in the beginning of OoX, the Triforce does not go back to the Sacred Realm (at least not in this scenario).

In SS, Impa hid the Triforce after it's use

"Zelda, I shall watch over the Triforce. Its power is too great to leave in the grasp of man. Dependence on its might is an invitation to disaster.When it has served its purpose, it must be secreted away to lay dormant once again...the knowledge of its existence hidden from mortal history. These are the words the goddess spoke to me long ago. I remember them well. As do you, I'm sure." — Impa
 
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Subzerostupid

Subzerostupid
Joined
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Location
In the closet, with the cookie monster
Well, In OoX Hyrule is just a normal country. Labrynna and Holodrum are it's neighborhoodcountrys. (Or as I belive provinces of Hyrule just like Ordon in TP, because Labrynna had a own royal family in the past which isn't presented anywere in the present. So i think it became part of Hyrules Provincess.) the Triforce teleports Link to the countrys at the beginning of each game, so he has to go back by boat at the end. There is no flood at all mentioned.
Huh. I guess I just mis-read something. Is there a game that leads TO a flood? I know WW is after one, but is there one that sets it up?
Since LTTP/OoX/LA are all the same Link,
Some people dont think this, as OoX zelda doesnt know link.
and the Triforce is in Hyrule Castle in the beginning of OoX, the Triforce does not go back to the Sacred Realm (at least not in this scenario).
In SS, Impa hid the Triforce after it's use
yes, I remember the impa quote. The thing about OoX triforce is that it was used in the sacred realm (in LttP). When I heard it was in hyrule castle, I instantly thought the hyruleans had then gone into the sacred realm and taken the triforce from it. It doesn't matter anyway, everyone knows it goes LttP(- or /)OoX/LA.
 
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noother84

Guest
correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think the intro to WW specifically says what happened to ganon, just that the people prayed to the gods. I don't think it says that they flooded Hyrule. It could just as easily have been that the gods made it so that LttP link was born then to defeat ganon, answering the people's prayers.

I haven't played OoX (LA's sequel), so i don't know, but i've been told that OoX led to a flood in the games' conclusion, which is why LA is in water. I haven't heard until now that he was just sailing home.

Is LttP/OoX ganon specified as the same one? If not, the OoX ganon could be an attempted revival of TP ganon.

I believe that the ToP, or whatever bit of it was in TP ganon went back to OoT ganon (still trapped in the sacred realm) after TP bunshin ganon died, as its actual holder.
Going to answer these all at once:

1.) A combination of the intro and what the King of Hyrule states say that the gods flooded Hyrule since the HoT did not appear.

Intro

The people believed that the Hero of Time
would again come to save them.

...But the hero did not appear.

Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people
could do nothing but appeal to the gods.


King Daphnes
Once, long ago, this land of Hyrule was
turned into a world of shadows by Ganon,
who sought to obtain the power of the
gods for his own evil ends.

My power alone could not stop the fiend,
and our only choice was to leave the fate
of the kingdom in the hands of the gods...

When the gods heard our pleas, they chose
to seal away not only Ganon, but Hyrule
itself...and so, with a torrential downpour
of rains from the heavens...

Our fair kingdom was soon buried beneath
the waves, forgotten at the bottom of
the ocean.
2.) The linked OoX games make no mention of any flooding, but show Link riding off into the sea/ocean.

3.)LTTP and OoX Ganon are one and the same. Developers confirmed this.

4.) TP Ganon and OoT Ganon are the same.

"His name is...Ganondorf. He was the leader of a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule in the hopes of establishing dominion over the Sacred Realm. He was known as a demon thief, an evil-magic wielder renowned for his ruthlessness...But he was blind...In all of his fury and might, he was blind to any danger, and thus was he exposed, subdued, and brought to justice." — Sages
Says nothing about him being locked in the Sacred/Evil Realm. If he was a clone, then they would have known that he was locked away at the end of OoT.
 

Subzerostupid

Subzerostupid
Joined
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1.) A combination of the intro and what the King of Hyrule states say that the gods flooded Hyrule since the HoT did not appear.
Okay. I have only seen the intro. Thanks for clearing this up.
2.) The linked OoX games make no mention of any flooding, but show Link riding off into the sea/ocean.
I must have heard/read wrong.
3.)LTTP and OoX Ganon are one and the same. Developers confirmed this.
Okay. I am going against some developer quotes, but I'll try to conform to this one in the new timeline that I'll post this weekend.
4.) TP Ganon and OoT Ganon are the same.
Says nothing about him being locked in the Sacred/Evil Realm. If he was a clone, then they would have known that he was locked away at the end of OoT.
I suppose so. Just saying, but I don't think the quote specifies that it is OoT ganon. It could be, but he would attack hyrule for the ToT and the triforce anyway, even if he was a different one.
Not really. In FSA Hyrule is surrounded by water (that's why I placed it befor WW in my timeline) but some people don't think this matters that much
That's not a bad idea, I might try it out.

Thanks for posting:)
 

Subzerostupid

Subzerostupid
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Location
In the closet, with the cookie monster
Ok, I've got a collection of factors on some paper in front of me.
We're going to start with the basic timeline shell that everyone follows:
SS-MC-OoT/MM-WW/PH-ST

Now we can start adding in the more obscure games. I'll start with TP:
Ganon dies
Triforce is split the whole way through
Master sword starts and ends in PoT, so it's before WW as the MS is left embedded in ganons head.
Its also post OoT because of the fisherman photo in the TP fishing game.

There is a way around the WW though. I checked Daphnes' triforce wish, and I'm pretty sure theres nothing that implies hyrule cannot come back (ie flood recedes). He asked to wash away this ancient land of hyrule, but that could mean just to remove civilisation from the sunken land. Hence why TP ToT was so derelict and if a surviving colony moved back into hyrule after the flood receded that would also explain why TP hyrule was so far from the ToT. If someone later, once the flood had gone down, moved the MS back the the PoT, everything would be in place for TP.

So the way I see it, TP can either go between OoT-WW or after PH. Let me know what you think is best. I prefer after PH because between OoT and WW would make triforce state problems.

Once we've done TP, we'll move on to a different game (I won't say yet, to avoid anyone talking about that before placing TP. Thanks in advance. :)
 
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Now we can start adding in the more obscure games. I'll start with TP:
Ganon dies
Triforce is split the whole way through
Master sword starts and ends in PoT, so it's before WW as the MS is left embedded in ganons head.
Its also post OoT because of the fisherman photo in the TP fishing game.

There is a way around the WW though. I checked Daphnes' triforce wish, and I'm pretty sure theres nothing that implies hyrule cannot come back (ie flood recedes). He asked to wash away this ancient land of hyrule, but that could mean just to remove civilisation from the sunken land. Hence why TP ToT was so derelict and if a surviving colony moved back into hyrule after the flood receded that would also explain why TP hyrule was so far from the ToT. If someone later, once the flood had gone down, moved the MS back the the PoT, everything would be in place for TP.

So the way I see it, TP can either go between OoT-WW or after PH. Let me know what you think is best. I prefer after PH because between OoT and WW would make triforce state problems.

Once we've done TP, we'll move on to a different game (I won't say yet, to avoid anyone talking about that before placing TP. Thanks in advance. :)
Well, we need an explanation how the MS was removed from Ganons forhead, why the Rito evolved back into the Zora, how Ganon got the ToC and why did the Hyrule Royal family moved back from ST-Hyrule to old Hyrule.
 

Subzerostupid

Subzerostupid
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Sorry i haven't posted recently; i've had a lot on my plate. Anyway,
Well, we need an explanation how the MS was removed from Ganons forhead, why the Rito evolved back into the Zora, how Ganon got the ToC and why did the Hyrule Royal family moved back from ST-Hyrule to old Hyrule.
I explained the MS thing, but i may not have been clear. I was thinking that someone could have moved it from ganon's forehead to the pedestal of time for safer keeping once the flood receded.
I completely forgot about the Rito, so yes, TP can't go after WW.
The ganon/ToP/'divine prank' thing isn't much of a timeline fault, because i haven't actually come across anything explaining that. I was hoping i could fill that in a bit later. Does anyone know how he got it in the Hyrule Historia timeline, just so i have something to compare it to?
Is it absolutely definite that all the Zeldas are descended from one another, or link for that matter? I know that most zeldas are descended from each other, but in this intance it could be how i always imagined link: appearing when needed. After the flood receded, a new royal family would be installed.
Anyway, the Rito and zora evolution is the real killer here. TP cant go after WW. Thanks. :)
All the stuff TheGermanLegend said, plus Daphnes's quote, in Japanese, specifies that he wants old Hyrule "erased".
I did not know that. Now i know its definite that there are no games in old hyrule after WW. thanks :)

The only place this leaves for TP is between OoT and WW, but because there are a lot of problems with that directly, i'm going to ignore it for now and place it later, when we have a fuller timeline.
For now, i'll stick to a basic.
FS/FSA:
only connected to MC
no MS
Shows an origin for ganon, so no need for a previous game with him in
I've read there was something about the triforce in FSA, but no more than that. Could someone let me know about this, thanks.

FS/FSA takes place in old hyrule, so it can't go after WW. As TheGermanLegend said, it is surrounded by water, but not much is read into that, so it could go either FS/FSA-OoT/MM-WW or OoT/MM-FS/FSA-WW
For the sake of simplicity between OoT and WW, i'm going to place it before OoT, after MC. remember there's no way to tell how long there is between many of the first (in the timeline) games, so the hyrulean king in OoT wouldn't know not to trust ganon, as long as they were different ganons and long enough had passed.
If there are problems with my FS/FSA placement let me know, and please tell me what happens with the triforce in FSA. thanks. :)
 
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noother84

Guest
The ganon/ToP/'divine prank' thing isn't much of a timeline fault, because i haven't actually come across anything explaining that. I was hoping i could fill that in a bit later. Does anyone know how he got it in the Hyrule Historia timeline, just so i have something to compare it to?

According to HH, when Link came back from the future with the ToC, something caused the Triforce to split and have the ToP go to Ganon.

Demon Thief Ganondorf

Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis’s Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

http://www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-113/
 
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Okay, all I have to say is that it would make sense if Link's Awakening came after both of the Oracle games. Think about it. After both Oracle games end, you see Link leaving off in a boat, which is where Link's Awakening starts off at. Link's Awakening really has no effect on the timeline at all. All that happens is: The Wind Fish is "captured" by the Nightmare and through his mystical powers, summons Link and by summons I mean causes a thunderstorm to occur and then causes Link to fall into a deep slumber atop the ruins of his ship. Link is sent into the Wind Fish's nightmare and has to rescue the Wind Fish to get out of the dream. Link vanquishes the Wind Fish's nightmare and frees the Wind Fish which then causes Link to wake up from his dream and seeing Marin was just an illusion. It sorta makes sense if you think about it hard enough.
 

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