Linear Timeline (rip into it)

[YoungGanon23]

If you want a linear timeline just follow the downfall timeline SS>OOT>ALTP >ORACLES>ZELDA 1 >ZELDA 2
In my headcanon the downfall timeline is more canon than the Child or Adult timelines

 

[Mangrove]

The way items work in the game is already weird. I'm gonna use the Kokiri Sword first. Where does your Kokiri Sword go when you're in the future? I'd say the Sacred Realm. I think after the seven-year slumber, and when time travel becomes instantaneous, items are given to Rauru or something so that you can't use the Kokiri Sword in the future. Then, when Adult Link is sent to the past, he picks up the Kokiri Sword from the Sacred Realm and is placed at the Temple of Time. Same with the Goron Bracelet, except this gets left in the Sacred Realm.

In the Future, I just imagined it's still in Link's inventory, like his Bombs and Deku Nuts. It was just impractical for him to be using the Kokiri breadknife on enemies, so it was just kept in his inventory. Why not the Boomerang? I don't really know (besides gameplay purposes), but maybe as an adult, he would've thrown it too hard?

Whenever you last visit Zelda is when Future Child Link lands in the Temple of Time because that's what already happened in the past. He has no free will when he returns; everything has already happened. There are no "ifs," there is just what was. If Link comes back before having gotten the second stone, there is no Triforce from the future yet because there wasn't when it happened the first time. If Link comes back before Zora's Domain and Jabu-Jabu, there is no Triforce proof because there wasn't when it happened the first time. It's destiny. Link is locked and him going back in time can't change anything because he was already back in time when everything happened the first time. That would match what happened in TP if it was possible for it to happen, but because it wasn't what happened, it isn't what happened. I hope that makes some sense?

I think I'm having trouble understanding the time travel talk here. Can you list the order of events with numbers? This are issues I see the two-Link theories where the future portion is inevitable {where Link goes on his adventure in OoT, and at the end, he goes to the past as Future Link (F-Link) but there is already another Link in this world, so that is Past Link (P-Link).}:

1. Zelda says "I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes...", but if it all repeats, why send Link back in time, and not just have him stay? What mistakes are she making up for if it was supposed to loop?
2. F-Link shows Zelda his Triforce of Courage (but if he shows his Triforce of Courage here while P-Link is still in Hyrule, that means there are two Triforce of Courages, since there is still an unsplit Triforce in the Sacred Realm).
3. F-Link gets an Ocarina from Zelda before leaving to Termina (but if he is getting his Ocarina from Zelda, that means there are two Ocarina of Times since P-Link got one before pulling the Master Sword). Not to mention, this is months later after Link travelled back, enough time for his voice to slightly alter, for him to get good at flipping around and holding a bigger shield, for the Hylian Shield to change design, and for his Kokiri Sword to undergo some smithing/refining
4. F-Link goes to Termina (but if he takes Epona to Termina, that means there are two Eponas since P-Link will find one when he ends up as an adult as well)

I think you answered 2. here:

I see it as the Triforce of Courage on Future Child Link shattering because of the events of Majora's Mask. Whatever happened there, the Hero of Time disconnects from the Hyrule and the Triforce with it. There are two Triforces because there are two Links. But one is in the Sacred Realm with Link and one is broken apart after Link enters Termina. But the one in the Sacred Realm with Link becomes the one in Termina with Link because it's the same Link with the same Triforce so it's really only one Triforce and really only one Link.

F-Link's Triforce of Courage split when he entered Termina, but he went to Zelda's Courtyard right after P-Link visited her according to your account, so that still leaves 2 Triforce of Courages. I can see one Triforce becoming the other, but I can't see two different Triforce of Courages existing at the same time in Hyrule. The Hyrule Triforce wising to restore Lorule's Triforce? Sure, but not the Hyrule Triforce making a clone of a third.

I think your answers to 1. and 3. are this:

The Ocarina is the far-fetchediest part of my timeline I think. The rest I think is somewhat reasonable. Hear me out. Zelda, after sending Link back in time with the Ocarina, also sends the Ocarina back in time to Past Zelda, but to when Link needs to leave for Termina, not to when Link appears in the Temple of Time (with the Door of Time open somehow, what?) Zelda is in on the future and the past because Future Zelda told Past Zelda what was going to happen. This was her prophetic dream. The whole game, Sheik/Zelda is talking about destiny and fate and "this is what has to happen," but then she's also like, "I screwed up, I couldn't have predicted this, oh me oh my I am so stupid." SHE'S NOT STUPID! She knew what was up. She knew that it had to happen exactly as it happened because she's Goddess ****ing Hylia and she's incredible. So Future Zelda knew she got sent the Ocarina by herself, so she sends it to herself because she knew the first time...it's very loopy and paradoxical but it works better than "There are three universes and they all splursh cuz the Gods."

I don't see much indication of Zelda sending back a second Ocarina to her past self, especially after telling Link to "close the Door of Time". Zelda tells Link to lay down the Master Sword and close the Door of Time. For Link to lay down the Master Sword, Zelda would have had to teleport Link to the Temple of Time. Her playing the Ocarina would influence Link's time travel (maybe like a Nayru's Love crystal type of spell where it stays with him), so that when he did lay down the Master Sword, he would go further back in time. Zelda probably could send him through space and time simultaneously, but then the Master Sword wouldn't be at the pedestal. As a kid, he isn't holding on to the Master Sword, so I can't see child Link as laying the Master Sword to rest. Usually, as a kid, Link would hop on the Master Sword's stone and travel to the future, pulling up the Master Sword while standing. As an Adult, he would crouch and insert the sword, returning to the kid who was on the stone, hopping back off. Since he's going further back in a different timeline, he wasn't on that stone as a kid, and he wasn't holding the Master Sword.

If Link came back in time and told Zelda what happened, and the story did a loop, she would know that Ganon would be the one to control the Sacred Realm, and not her. I can't see a scenario where Zelda repeats her mistake but on purpose, especially when, after beating Ganon, she says, "I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes...". She didn't see the full future as a child. As an Adult, her goal would probably be to prevent the disastrous outcome of Ganon entering the Sacred Realm, so she would probably want a different outcome to occur (even if it's on a different timeline), which is why she sends Link back (and also to relive his childhood). This would be to right her wrongs of causing her timeline's Hyrule to fall by instructing Link to open the Door of Time. If Adult Zelda wanted things to happen the same way, she wouldn't have sent Link back because he would have knowledge of the future so she would be risking a change anyways. If Link wanted things to stay the same, he wouldn't have told Zelda anything upon coming back, because he wouldn't have known that talking to Zelda would lead to Ganon's takeover anyways. Also, he has no reason for wanting Ganon to take over Hyrule again.

I agree that three timelines (where one comes from a downfall) is a bit much for me since the games don't point to a downfall occurring in OoT, but the two-timeline split made sense to me.

The Hero's Shade is so regretful because it's been so long. The Hero of Winds and Spirits were above the ocean and he was stuck in flooded Hyrule. Then the Four Sword people couldn't use his training cuz they had a dumb sword, the ALBW dude got Gramps (ALTTP Link) and so his first opportunity to train anybody was the Hero of Twilight. It makes an already tragic story even more tragic. He's been waiting for this moment for, like, 3000 years, not just 100 years. Every hero's only wish is to pass down their skills, and he didn't get to cuz Termina and losing the Triforce and stuff.

Since he was a spirit, couldn't he just go anywhere he wants? His wolf form was found all over Hyrule. Also, I'd say that any hero can benefit from the sword training to me without the Master Sword, as long as it helps the next Hero.

 

[GZ Zelda]

In the Future, I just imagined it's still in Link's inventory, like his Bombs and Deku Nuts. It was just impractical for him to be using the Kokiri breadknife on enemies, so it was just kept in his inventory. Why not the Boomerang? I don't really know (besides gameplay purposes), but maybe as an adult, he would've thrown it too hard?

I think, by the same logic, maybe he just took the bracelet off when he went back? Like, he still had it. It just wasn't physically on his wrist.

I think I'm having trouble understanding the time travel talk here. Can you list the order of events with numbers? This are issues I see the two-Link theories where the future portion is inevitable {where Link goes on his adventure in OoT, and at the end, he goes to the past as Future Link (F-Link) but there is already another Link in this world, so that is Past Link (P-Link).}:

1. Link is born
2. Link gets the Kokiri Emerald
3. Link meets with Zelda
4. Link gets the Goron Ruby
5. Link gets the Zora Sapphire
6. Link sees Zelda and Impa leaving the castle.
7. Link opens the Door of Time and gets sealed, Ganon enters
8. 7 Years: Link is in the Sacred Realm
9. Link awakens Saria, Darunia, and Ruto.
10. Link travels back 7 years and gets the Lens of Truth from the Bottom of the Well
11. Link travels forward and awakens Impa.
12. Link travels back and completes the first part of the Spirit Temple.
13. Link travels forward and awakens Nabooru.
14. Sheik is revealed as Zelda and taken by Ganon.
15. Link and the Sages seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm
16. Link travels back in time due to Zelda playing the Ocarina.
17. While Past Link is collecting the Goron Ruby or Zora Sapphire (4 or 5), Future Link meets with Zelda and explains what happened to him.
18. While Past Link is collecting the Zora Sapphire (5), Future Link and Zelda tell the king what Ganondorf's plan is. Except Ganondorf is there. Ganondorf immediately takes his sword and kills the king. He single-handedly takes on the unexpecting guards while Zelda and Impa run. Future Link tries to fight Ganondorf, but Ganondorf gets away on his horse. (In the same way we don't know how the Split Timeline conversation happened, we don't know how exactly this happened)
19. While Past Link sees Zelda running out of the castle (6), Future Link realizes that he has to find Zelda.
20. While Past Link goes through the Door of Time (7), Future Link, Zelda, and Impa reunite and Link realizes he could never have changed the past.
21. While Past Link rests in the Sacred Realm (8), or while Link has traveled back to complete the Bottom of the Well and the Spirit Temple part 1 (10 and 12), Future Link and Zelda bond. (At this point, there are technically three Links: one in the Sacred Realm, one completing the dungeons that Link completes in the past, and one who is the Future Link, in hiding with Zelda and Impa.
22. While Past Link rests in the Sacred Realm (8), Future Link goes to find Navi.
23. While Past Link rests in the Sacred Realm (8), Future Link somehow ends up in Termina and his Triforce piece shatters and shoots across Hyrule.
24. The events of Majora's Mask.
I hope that helps.

F-Link's Triforce of Courage split when he entered Termina, but he went to Zelda's Courtyard right after P-Link visited her according to your account, so that still leaves 2 Triforce of Courages. I can see one Triforce becoming the other, but I can't see two different Triforce of Courages existing at the same time in Hyrule. The Hyrule Triforce wising to restore Lorule's Triforce? Sure, but not the Hyrule Triforce making a clone of a third.

I don't know, I think I am more OK with two Triforce of Courage's existing for seven years than having the events of Ocarina of Time never happen in Twilight Princess. That might just be me. A time-traveling Triforce of Courage isn't a clone, it's the Triforce of Courage in the future. The Triforce on Future Link's hand is what is going to happen to the Triforce in the Sacred Realm. So it doesn't grant you double the power, because no one uses it to grant someone double the power. Hyruleans don't have free will, essentially, because the "what if" scenario of the two Triforces being used or overlapping in any way is just that, a "what if", and we know that "what if" scenario didn't happen because we played through the game and it didn't happen.

I don't see much indication of Zelda sending back a second Ocarina to her past self, especially after telling Link to "close the Door of Time". Zelda tells Link to lay down the Master Sword and close the Door of Time. For Link to lay down the Master Sword, Zelda would have had to teleport Link to the Temple of Time. Her playing the Ocarina would influence Link's time travel (maybe like a Nayru's Love crystal type of spell where it stays with him), so that when he did lay down the Master Sword, he would go further back in time. Zelda probably could send him through space and time simultaneously, but then the Master Sword wouldn't be at the pedestal. As a kid, he isn't holding on to the Master Sword, so I can't see child Link as laying the Master Sword to rest. Usually, as a kid, Link would hop on the Master Sword's stone and travel to the future, pulling up the Master Sword while standing. As an Adult, he would crouch and insert the sword, returning to the kid who was on the stone, hopping back off. Since he's going further back in a different timeline, he wasn't on that stone as a kid, and he wasn't holding the Master Sword.

I think it's totally possible that, in order to close the door of time, she knows that she has to send the Ocarina back because she already got the Ocarina in the past. Also, when Zelda sends Link back, this is before he's ever pulled the Master Sword so it's not him laying the sword to rest, the sword that Future Link is sent back in front of has not been moved since Rauru sealed the Sacred Realm. This also explains how there is a Master Sword in Wind Waker, it's just the same one from Ocarina of Time.

If Link came back in time and told Zelda what happened, and the story did a loop, she would know that Ganon would be the one to control the Sacred Realm, and not her. I can't see a scenario where Zelda repeats her mistake but on purpose, especially when, after beating Ganon, she says, "I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes...". She didn't see the full future as a child. As an Adult, her goal would probably be to prevent the disastrous outcome of Ganon entering the Sacred Realm, so she would probably want a different outcome to occur (even if it's on a different timeline), which is why she sends Link back (and also to relive his childhood). This would be to right her wrongs of causing her timeline's Hyrule to fall by instructing Link to open the Door of Time. If Adult Zelda wanted things to happen the same way, she wouldn't have sent Link back because he would have knowledge of the future so she would be risking a change anyways. If Link wanted things to stay the same, he wouldn't have told Zelda anything upon coming back, because he wouldn't have known that talking to Zelda would lead to Ganon's takeover anyways. Also, he has no reason for wanting Ganon to take over Hyrule again.

This is my favorite part of my timeline. It makes Ocarina of Zelda, instead of ridiculously stupid and unwise, like, an actual genius. Because, as is, how the hell does she get the Triforce of Wisdom? She's a 9-year-old idiot. She's DUPING Link. "OHHH I was so YOUNG and NAIVE I could NEVER have seen this coming." plEASE! She's the Goddess of Wisdom, visions don't lie. Her dream was prophetic because that is what happened. Exactly what Link and Zelda dreamed is exactly what happened, which means it was destined to happen. You can't reverse that. You can't change that, you are stuck with that. She wasn't trying to prevent it. It was necessary in order to defeat him. It had to happen this way. It was destiny. She knows that she has to send Link back because she knows that he was there when it originally happened.

Link needed to be an adult to be the Hero of Time, according to the game. Link needed to spend at least 7 years in the Sacred Realm to become the true hero. That means that, no matter what, in order to defeat Ganondorf, Link had to get the Master Sword and open the Sacred Realm. He had to. Or he wouldn't have awoken the sages and they wouldn't have been able to seal Ganon. Link needed to let himself open the Sacred Realm or he never would have been able to be the Hero of Time. I've been trying to include the "convincing the king" part, but maybe Link was just like, "Bro, your dad is gonna die and you need to, like, run away right now." That's what makes Link courageous. He recognized that the only way to succeed was to fail. The only way for Ganondorf to be stopped is for him to have seven years of tyrannical rule. And that's probably a pretty big burden. Some would say an even bigger burden than "never being a hero," like that's so ego-driven and bad. Link and Zelda needed to doom the kingdom in order to save it. And we know they needed to do that because it's what happened.

I agree that three timelines (where one comes from a downfall) is a bit much for me since the games don't point to a downfall occurring in OoT, but the two-timeline split made sense to me.

The two timeline split makes sense, I just don't think it's the best version of the lore. And I also don't think it's how time works. But that's a different story.

Since he was a spirit, couldn't he just go anywhere he wants? His wolf form was found all over Hyrule. Also, I'd say that any hero can benefit from the sword training to me without the Master Sword, as long as it helps the next Hero.

I'm pretty sure he was stuck in the Twilight Realm or something. Cuz why is he a wolf? Like, how did that happen? Was he cursed? Where did that come from? And where do you battle him? The Sacred Realm? How does he get there? He's also not even a hero in TP according to the Child split, he's never touched the Master Sword.

 

[MapelSerup]

This makes sense conceptually. So does the other split. I just think it's stupid and bad and dumb and wrong. What happens after Hyrule is destroyed in all of the other timelines? Something. Something is after all those other timelines. So to single out this one is to ignore all of the other "somethings." TFH could be if you lose Four Swords, cuz why not. TMC is if you die in Oracle of Ages. It's just so arbitrary to have this specific downfall timeline, and if we are making a timeline, let's actually do it. Let's make a timeline that is a timeline, not two what-if scenarios based on one game.

I answered this question in my original reply.

I have always believed the reason we explore this scenario of Link's defeat and ignore all the other ones is because in this scenario, Ganondorf was ultimately "defeated" (sealed) regardless of whether Link won or lost, meaning Hyrule persisted anyways, just in a different way.