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Leaving A Dungeon

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
Whenever you beat a dungeon, you get warped out of it. I think there should be a change to this in Skyward Sword.

What I mean is that after you beat a dungeon's boss, you get the heart container. Standard. The "assistant" character(i.e. Midna) tells you whatever needs to be told. Standard. Then you go through Part Two. Not so standard.

Part Two would consist of a new set of puzzles and tricks for the player to solve, in order to get out of the dungeon. I think that would be an intresting turn from "the norm". The only problem I could forsee happening with this, is if the dungeon is a huge pain in the a$$. Then, a second playthrough in the dungeon would seem like a second playthrough in hell. But I still think Nintendo should give it a shot anyway. What do you guys think?
 
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PhantomTriforce

I am a Person of Interest
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Location
Ganon's Tower
This could possibly work. Do you have any ideas how they could bring about these puzzles? This is Zelda, so puzzles can't just pop out of nowhere. Something has to trigger them. We've seen this a little bit in OoT's Ganon's Tower, how you had to get out. However, my opinion is that warping to get out of a dungeon is fine, and that for some dungeons, you could get out a special way like how you described.

And about the second playthrough of the dungeon, I do not think that idea would work because a lot of Zelda fans need a reason for doing it. Now the boss is already killed from the first playthrough, so there is no boss. What would the goal be? Instead of this, I would very much prefer it that they made one or two optional dungeons that are extremely hard. That would give a new feel to the dungeon, not a repetitive one, and they could do many things with it to make it more interesting.
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
This could possibly work. Do you have any ideas how they could bring about these puzzles? This is Zelda, so puzzles can't just pop out of nowhere. Something has to trigger them. We've seen this a little bit in OoT's Ganon's Tower, how you had to get out. However, my opinion is that warping to get out of a dungeon is fine, and that for some dungeons, you could get out a special way like how you described.

And about the second playthrough of the dungeon, I do not think that idea would work because a lot of Zelda fans need a reason for doing it. Now the boss is already killed from the first playthrough, so there is no boss. What would the goal be? Instead of this, I would very much prefer it that they made one or two optional dungeons that are extremely hard. That would give a new feel to the dungeon, not a repetitive one, and they could do many things with it to make it more interesting.

You make some pretty good points. Maybe at the end of Part Two, you get a piece of heart or maybe a bunch of rupees or something. And you, the player, knows about this because the partner character says something like,"I heard there's something intresting at the end of the other part of the dungeon...". Maybe. That might work.

And as for how to bring about the puzzles... I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Do explain:)
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
This could actually very well be in the game already. Among the changes that will be made to the formula is a change in the functions of dungeons.
As Aonuma said, there will be dungeons where you don't just go to get something, but a dungeon connecting two area's of the overworld. This idea of yours could very well be part of a dungeon like that. Imagine beating the boss and then going through another part of the dungeon to finally exit in another part of Hyrule. It seems very possible.

EDIT: nice Allen Walker :P
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
This could actually very well be in the game already. Among the changes that will be made to the formula is a change in the functions of dungeons.
As Aonuma said, there will be dungeons where you don't just go to get something, but a dungeon connecting two area's of the overworld. This idea of yours could very well be part of a dungeon like that. Imagine beating the boss and then going through another part of the dungeon to finally exit in another part of Hyrule. It seems very possible.

EDIT: nice Allen Walker :P

Really? That's good to know. And going through the other part of the dungeon to exit in another part of Hyrule is one of the main points I was trying to make.

It's also good to know I've found a fellow D.Gray-man fan:)
 

PhantomTriforce

I am a Person of Interest
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Location
Ganon's Tower
You make some pretty good points. Maybe at the end of Part Two, you get a piece of heart or maybe a bunch of rupees or something. And you, the player, knows about this because the partner character says something like,"I heard there's something intresting at the end of the other part of the dungeon...". Maybe. That might work.

And as for how to bring about the puzzles... I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Do explain:)

So here's the thing. How will these puzzles to escape the dungeon come? Zelda has a reasonable amount of logic to it, so something must happen in order for the puzzles to come in your path, as they cannot just appear when you leave the boss room. For example, maybe the boss crashes into the ground when it dies, so it causes an earthquake which sets more traps for you. Something like this has to happen, and different things would need to happen in order for them to keep it lively and not too repetitive.
 

MikauIncarnate

Hero of the Zora
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Location
U.S.
I think what they meant is this: You go through dungeon part A to receive the boss key and enter the boss room. After the boss dies, the door leading back out never unlocks. There is another door on the other side of the boss room leading to dungeon part B, which, at the end of, you return to the overworld through a different way than you came in.
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
So here's the thing. How will these puzzles to escape the dungeon come? Zelda has a reasonable amount of logic to it, so something must happen in order for the puzzles to come in your path, as they cannot just appear when you leave the boss room. For example, maybe the boss crashes into the ground when it dies, so it causes an earthquake which sets more traps for you. Something like this has to happen, and different things would need to happen in order for them to keep it lively and not too repetitive.

Oh, I know what you mean now. I was actually thinking like, for example, Morpha in Twilight Princess. It's head crashes into the wall of the boss room that causes the water to drain. I was thinking something like that, except the hole opens up, creating a passageway to Part Two. Or, maybe a seperate door opens after the boss is defeated that leads to Part Two, or a path of some kind that then leads to Part Two. Maybe things like that could happen to get you to Part Two.

I think what they meant is this: You go through dungeon part A to receive the boss key and enter the boss room. After the boss dies, the door leading back out never unlocks. There is another door on the other side of the boss room leading to dungeon part B, which, at the end of, you return to the overworld through a different way than you came in.

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. That, and what I mentioned up above, the thing about Morpha.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Location
Upstate New York
I could definitely see this working. Maybe like a "stealth mission" type thing? Or maybe, say, the item/boss/etc is in the middle of a large building, or on the top floor, and you have to get back out/down. Would be much more realistic, I think.
 

Nicole

luke is my wife
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Location
NJ
Erm.... You guys do remember that if you save while in a dungeon, and quit the game, when you re-open your safe file, you will be back at the beginning of the dungeon?

So if this is implemented, this is what happens: You're in the Boss Room, you save, then quit. You re-open the file, and voila! You appear back at the beginning of the dungeon, skipping all the puzzles.

It's not a bad idea, I just don't think Nintendo would go for it. They would have to change the way you save in dungeons.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Erm.... You guys do remember that if you save while in a dungeon, and quit the game, when you re-open your safe file, you will be back at the beginning of the dungeon?

So if this is implemented, this is what happens: You're in the Boss Room, you save, then quit. You re-open the file, and voila! You appear back at the beginning of the dungeon, skipping all the puzzles.

It's not a bad idea, I just don't think Nintendo would go for it. They would have to change the way you save in dungeons.

That wouldn't be hard at all. It's just like a normal dungeon up to the boss battle, and when you beat the boss and quit the game, next time you start it up you'll start in the boss chamber after the battle.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
I don't think this idea should be done for every single dungeon, actually, but I do like the basic premise. I think the dungeons in general should experiment with different formats and ideas, instead of the basic dungeon formula we've seen in every single game since A Link to the Past. The idea of having a dungeon where escaping from it either quickly (like a timer) or gradually and carefully (like a tomb) is a brilliant idea, and one of many possible ways they could mix things up. Yes it could be done incredibly poorly, but I really doubt that it actually will. Nintendo is a very established company and they rarely get things that horribly wrong, especially within the Zelda series.

It would require a different way of doing warping. In most Zelda games you're able to instantly warp to the beginning of a dungeon, and obviously that's a problem in this context. You could simply disable it when this happens, or perhaps you can only warp from certain portals like in The Minish Cap. There's other ideas I'm sure. 'course, I don't think this is the only innovation in dungeons that should be applied to Skyward Sword (or future Zelda in general). I think they should bring back the idea of dungeons with multiple entrances, and try many other concepts. But not apply them to every single dungeon. Spread them out so all the dungeons have unique designs, feels, and natures.

Now them actually doing this in Skyward Sword is what I question. I hope they do. But I'm skeptical that Skyward Sword will actually be something completely new. It may very well have some innovations, but I doubt it's going to be some brand new experience. This could factor into "some innovations" though, and either way this is something I badly want to see.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
I have a question.

How long will these puzzles be? In my min it's like:

Boss>Puzzle>More Dungeon>Puzzle>Finish
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
I have a question.

How long will these puzzles be? In my min it's like:

Boss>Puzzle>More Dungeon>Puzzle>Finish

Basically, I was thinking something like that, but more like this:

Dungeon/puzzles>boss>dungeon/puzzles again>finish

But also incorporating some of what Axel said, like multiple entrances and varity of this aspect across the dungeons, so that not all dungeons do this. Everyone has had some brilliant ideas I definatly wouldn't have thought of, and they all generally fit into this discussion one way or another.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
I once read an interview with Aonuma at E3 in a dutch Nintendo magazine, and this is what it said:
"Dungeons and fields will be mixed up, with certain elements carrying over, such as field-areas with puzzles or a boss, and dungeon areas which are much larger than normal dungeons and will actually make exploration possible inside a dungeon". Combine this with a Gamespot interview saying there will be dungeons where you have to flee, stealth-like swordless dungeons, dungeons that connect parts of the overworld, dungeons without bosses or items etc, and I think there'll be enough variation to please everyone.
 

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