Spoiler l

[JuicieJ]

I don't think "an incarnation" limits himself to just one. It's clear that he means what Ganondorf said at the end of TP - whenever a Link and Zelda appear, "an incarnation" will also appear. I thought we'd already established that he didn't create the curse right then and there, so he wouldn't know about how it affects the future. It's also established that he's appeared several times before, and he even says "It is born anew in a cycle with no end!"

"You never know, though. Some other form could manifest itself on the AT after Spirit Tracks, especially since he appears in different forms in each epoch."

 

[JuicieJ]

Well then, let me run with that. People say that the reason Ganondorf continually returns is because of this newfound curse. Yet if we are to believe the curse applies to various different beings then why would Ganon have any special treatment? There would be no reason for the curse to revive him as another incarnation could easily just wander along and take his place. Ganon's constant returns are not the product of Demise' silly little rant they are the product of Ganon's power and lust for the Triforce (and occasionally a little elbow grease from his cronies).

I just fail to see why you think the Triforce is the influence when it's so clearly not. I've seriously seen no legit evidence to support your claims, whereas there's nothing but hardcore evidence for Demise being the influence. It's Demise, man. It just is.

 

[JuicieJ]

I've provided quite a bit of evidence in the OP. If you wish to deny it please do so with evidence of your own.

I also provided evidence to counter your "evidence" in the OP. I outlined why it didn't make sense quite clearly. :/

 

[Naga]

It certainly seems like a curse. In the timeline, SS takes place beforeall o the other Zelda games. (hey sorry, but the only Zelda games I've played are TP, SS, PH, and ALTTP, and in ALTTP, I only beat the first dungeon. )

I'm adding to this now. Demise does, if you think about it, look quite a bit like Gannondorf, and this makes sense if gannondorf is the reincarnation of Demise. And his spirit or whatever you wanna call it maybe became so obsessed with power that it figured worshipping Din or something would make him more likely to succeed, and he only pretends to not hate the other gods and goddesses. or at times like when he acts annoyed at Midna for "defying the gods with petty magic" he probably only means Din and not all of the deities in general.

 

[felipe970421]

I also provided evidence to counter your "evidence" in the OP. I outlined why it didn't make sense quite clearly. :/

What he meant was that the lust for the triforce was what caused the power struggles, not the triforce itself

 

[Zelda-Fanatic]

Ganondorf might be the incarnation of Demise's hatred for Link and Zelda. Ever think about that?

 

[Terminus]

Ganondorf might be the incarnation of Demise's hatred for Link and Zelda. Ever think about that?

A lot of people have said that. But you're still new here. Welcome to the Dungeon!

 

[Heros Temporis]

What I'm thinking is that Demise, in the cutscene in which he "curses" Link, is, like you have said, not really cursing him. Though, I doubt that they are just "hollow words". It's unlikely that Demise was initiating completely new at that time. It seems to me that Demise, or rather, his hate, reincarnates without cease. Period. He doesn't curse Link with this incarnation here, if what I'm saying is correct, then it would be more him informing him and less of him cursing him. This, I think, comes out best when he begins the quote by saying

My hate... never perishes.

The way he forms this opening sentence here sounds as though he is simply stating an unalterable fact. Like I've already said, he doesn't seem to be initiating a literal curse at this point.


And excuse me for not completely understanding the point you're trying to make, but I'm not sure if you are denying that Ganon(dorf) is not the/an incarnation of Demise's hate or not. Because, really, that's almost fact; it's been basically confirmed by a developer (see the quote by Aonuma) and is just one of "those things" that are technically theories but basically proven correct.
Really, the whole "Dragon Roost Island = Death Mountain" theory is still just a theory as it's never been confirmed by any developers or outright stated in any canonical text, but using common sense and basic reasoning can tell anyone that this is true.

 

[JuicieJ]

Yes, I am denying the Ganondorf = Demise hatred thing. However that is one point of two, the first being that the curse isn't even a curse. As you said. The curse is merely an understanding of the nature of life and how the Triforce plays it's role in it all. i.e. Evil appears because of the Triforce and the Hero appears because of the evil.

The quote by Aonuma was something that puzzled me at first as it seemed to contradict what was actually being presented by the Zelda universe. However, as I believe I have said elsewhere, the quote merely states that "Ganondorf's origins will be touched on". If we assume my theory to be correct for just a minute and analyse Demise words again you'll see that even with the curse taken out of the picture they still touch on Ganondorf's origins. They still explain why and how Ganondorf rises, because of the Triforce. Believe me, had the quote of directly said "Demise lays a curse that re-incarnates him as Ganondorf", I would not have even bothered with this thread.

I just can't comprehend how you can say that Demise saying his hate never perishes along with Fi stating that he appears differently in each epoch isn't touching on how Ganondorf showed up and the fact that the Triforce's only role in the story was to vanquish Demise is. It's just not logical.

 

[JuicieJ]

Very well, let me try to clarify myself. My interpretation of the statement "My hate never perishes" is that he is not saying his personal hate, but rather the hate is a symbol of evil. An evil which he has [also] embraced. In that sense it never does perish because there always has been and always will be evil. The Fi thing, as I said earlier, simply cannot be taken as a look into the future. Fi is not a being of time and so cannot have possibly seen how this curse will have panned out. Her statement was only saying Demise HAS appeared in every epoch. To say her scan is a look into the future too is just assumption.

Another point regarding the Aounuma quote. He says SS will "touch on Ganondorf's origins". The "touch on" being the key part of this phrase. If this curse is to be taken literally then SS doesn't just touch on his origins, it outright exposes them. Ganondorf apparently is spawned from the hate of Demise as part of an everlasting curse. There's not much more else we can explore from there, hence saying his origins will be "touched on" simply doesn't add up. Whereas if I am correct and the curse is a lot deeper than first glances would imply then there is still a lot left to be desired regarding Ganondorfs origins. And the words "touch on" now make a lot more sense.

Regarding the Triforces role in the story, it didn't just serve as the means to vanquish Demise. It also served as the entire motivation behind Demise' actions. He attacked Hylia to get the Triforce, Skyloft was sent sky loft (no pun intended) to hide the Triforce and Link spent his entire adventure purifying both himself and his sword in order to gain the Triforce. It all hinges around the Triforce, as does pretty much any Zelda game featuring Ganondorf. And that is the point I have been trying to make with this theory. It is not a silly curse that causes Ganondorf to rise again and again, it is his lust for the Power of the Gods.

Yes, he wants the Triforce, but that's not exactly uncommon, now, is it? There have been two civil wars in Hyrule over the Triforce, both of them extremely bloody. It's about selfish ambition, not because the Triforce produces some external power that draws evil and good together in battle. Demise acted on his own accord. His hate has nothing to do with it. The fact that his hate is eternal and is basically hatred in general (in my opinion) proves that Ganondorf is motivated by it, as it's inside of him. By Demise "cursing" Link, I'd say he was focusing his eternal hatred on Link and Zelda so that, no matter where they go, they will always be confronted by it, rather than his hate being reincarnated somewhere they're not.

 

[JuicieJ]

I'm not implying the Triforce intentionally causes evil to erupt. Rather evil erupts because of the Triforce. I'mm very glad you said it was because of selfish ambition, as that's the exact point I'm trying to make. There's no curse involved in Ganondorf's quest for the Triforce. Just his lust for power.

His lust for power comes from Demise's hate is what I'm saying.

 

[Doc]

Your argument makes much sense. I never paid much attention to quotes and was one of the fans who found the "curse" incredibly genius. You have me questioning it all now. However, the goddess must have some way of new life, and if the triforce of wisdom is reincarnated to the same person, the triforce of courage must be able to as well. However, you know have me thinking. Demise and Ganondorf are very different. The fact they both wanted the triforce makes sense, as they both work to something. But the fact that Demise hadn't had the triforce of power and Ganondorf had helps lead me to believe they are different, unlike Link and Zelda.

 

[PAPezoneJr]

I don't believe that you discredit the curse by disproving the link between Demise and Ganondorf. The problem with this, is that we are getting into specifics, I believe the curse is much more general. He curses the those with the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero, this has nothing to do with the ambition for power, the triforce, or anything of the like. It's just that the hero and the reincarnation of the goddess will have to live a blood soaked life. Not a life of peace, but a life of war, and he succeeds at this curse. The key here is reincarnation. Zelda, and there are many different Zelda's all with different personalities and motives and are in general, just different people, all share the fact that they are all reincarnations of the goddess Hylia. It's just by tradition that the princess of Hyrule is called Zelda, though the name of this incarnation could be anything, i.e. Tetra. Just like the different incarnations, the different people that embody Hylia, the same can be said for Demise. You could argue that Vaati is an incarnation of Demise's hatred as well. He does not seek the triforce, he has different motives, different ambitions, however, succeeds in causing a life of war and battle for the Link and Zelda, thus fulfilling the curse. Ganondorf, though he is revived multiple times due to possessing the ToP, is only a incarnation, he's only PART of the curse, he is not, in and of himself, the curse. The curse isn't even specific to the goddesses or the land of Hyrule, it's only towards the reincarnations of the hero and the goddess Hylia, and game after game, they are the ones who face the struggle, no matter who the villian is. The curse itself, sets up the numerous adventures that Link and Zelda go on, and it explains why it is always these two that have to face it and not the other numerous Hylians, Gorons, and other races in Hyrule.

 

[DarkestLink]

Don't think this makes sense? Well here's the truth: Zelda--heck Nintendo in general--isn't very consistent. Look at Wind Waker Ganondorf. He suddenly cares for Hyrule when OoT Ganondorf was hellbent on destroying it. He relished in killing off the species, destroying lands, and was willing to revive Volvagia to finish the job. At first I thought maybe tWW Ganondorf was OK as a stand alone villain, but thinking back, the Hyrule King stated that the Gods acknowledge his goal to destroy Hyrule and they sealed it instead so he wouldn't win. So not only does his sudden love for Hyrule contradict previous games, it contradicts the same game he's in.

As for his hatred for the Gods...while Ganondorf never makes that apparent himself, the fact that the Gods showed biased and flooded Hyrule to stop him from winning shows they are clearly not on his side or neutral for that matter.

 

[OcarinistOfTime]

Demise is the Hylian version of Satan. He is the physical representation of evil and all things evil (including hatred, and monsters ALL monsters). Although Demise himself has been locked away forever in the master sword, he still exists as all evil in the world in a spiritual sense. He isn't laying a curse, he is telling Link what he is and that he's going to be after him (again in a spiritual sense) until the never-ending cycle ends. Whether he be Ganon, Ganondorf, Vaati, Malladus, Zant or Dark Link. He is the evil curse he's speaking of. All evil that exists stems from the hatred he WAS. At least that's how I've always interpreted Demise.