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Just a Dream?

Joined
Dec 12, 2010
I have only started/played through five Zelda games, so I don't know if my idea applies to all of them, but still...

In four of the Zelda games I've played (OoT, WW, ALttP, and OoS), the game starts with Link asleep. Near the very beginning of the fifth, TP, Link is briefly knocked out by bad guys when Illia and the kids are captured. Is it possible that after Link "wakes up" in these five games (possibly other games, I don't know) he is not awake at all but dreaming? All Zelda games feature, to some extent, kooky characters that do not behave rationally that Link has to go along with (pirates that shoot poor Link out of cannons, zoras and funny hooded girls with bows that want anything from marriage to just a date, creepy ooccoos, strange mailmen, crazy mad scientists that eat eyeball frogs, annoying little faries... the list goes on and on). While characters like these are highly lovable and make the series what it is, the fact that the world is so heavily populated with such characters, leaving Link one of the only sane people there, is somewhat dreamlike (think Alice in Wonderland). In dreams, the person dreaming does not feel at all in control of events. Also, obviously, the imagination can conjure up a fanciful world that does not follow the same rules that real life follows, which would explain things like why Link can roll up staircases, why gorons, as is discussed in another thread, seem to be only males but have kids, why Link can walk around without any kind of backpack or anything yet have access to a load of items that probably weighs more than he does, why everyone can understand Link without him actually saying anything to them, etc. etc. etc. Is the Kingdom of Hyrule similar to the Land of Oz or Wonderland?

I certainly wouldn't want LoZ games to "officially" be dreams, but I found the idea that they could be dreams very interesting. What do you think?
 

Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
I had written a long and elaborate theory about this a couple of weeks ago, with the King of Hyrule as the central figure, comparable to the Red King of Through the Looking Glass. I can't find the thread now, suggesting it was either merged or deleted. But yeah, there is the possibility that all of the games are dreams.
 

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Somewhere small
When it comes to Wind Waker I'm not so convinced it works on the same scale unless you count Phantom Hourglass and Wind Waker as the same dream. However this does not work with the Spirit Tracks sequel thrown in as well, since that's a different Link built up in that same World, a century on.

It'd also make OoT-MM an odd-ball case. Where does the dream end, or is the sequel a dream within a dream? To be fair, though, recursive dreaming has happened in the Zelda Universe before. Or does it go further, and is Majora's Mask where Link truly wakes up, and Termina is the reality?

Personally I think 'its all a dream' just opens up for more questions than answers.
 

insanity76

I don't suffer from it ..
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Texas
Though you haven't played it, you could also list Majora's Mask in there to support your theory, being as he gets KO'd in the intro when Epona bucks him off of her after being startled. MM also fits the mold of your Alice in Wonderland suggestion as far as "falling down a rabbit hole" and finding oneself in a strange world, because something very similar happens to Link in the prologue. When I think about elements in the game and how the ending and ending credits go, MM being a dream seems very plausible. (I'm being somewhat vague so as not to spoil anything in case you plan on playing it .. and you should if you get the chance ;) )

And I haven't played it, but I've read a few times on the forum that Link's Awakening is either confirmed or widely considered to be a dream. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)
 
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Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
There are different ways to interpret the ending of Link's Awakening.

Spoiler alert (highlight to reveal):
During the game, several characters mention that the whole island of Koholint is just the dream of the Wind Fish, a flying whale similar to the final form of the Ocean King from Phantom Hourglass. A Kaepora Gaebora analogue tells Link that he needs to wake the Wind Fish in order to leave the island. At the end, he does just that by defeating the nightmare that had kept the Wind Fish asleep. In the end, we can see Link on a wooden plank, regaining his consciousness, with the Wind Fish flying over him. Now either Koholing was real, and Link just thinks that it was a dream (his own dream or the dream of the Wind Fish), or it really was a dream (his own or that of the Wind Fish). I've even read a theory that claimed that it was a shared dream by Link and the Wind Fish. In the thread that has disappeared, I had the theory that Link and the Wind Fish were one and the same, and that the Wind Fish we see in the credits is just a memory of that dream. Or all of it is someone else's dream. Which would mean that a character dreams that a different character dreams of Koholint (where, curiously enough, Link falls asleep at one point to get the ocarina). And I had that theory before I saw Inception.
:)
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
You use sound reasoning. I think that rather than Link being the dreamer, we the players are the dreamers. We 'fall asleep' when we boot up the game, and that's what results in all those anomalies you mentioned.

And I haven't played it, but I've read a few times on the forum that Link's Awakening is either confirmed or widely considered to be a dream. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)
I also haven't played it, but I'm fairly certain this is confirmed. (Who's dream it was appears to be a matter of some debate.)

Michael, I don't remember seeing that. Was it a thread or a reply post? Are you sure you posted it?
 

Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
I posted a thread called "Link is the Windfish... and a dream within a dream" or something very close to that. It got a few replies, but I think this might have fed into the Spoiler Alert controversy a while back, that could be why it's gone now. I do remember that I didn't get an infraction for that particular thread, though.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Wow, sweet ideas, everyone! Locke, your idea about the player being the dreamer is one I hadn't thought about before, but it makes a lot of sense. When people play games, they are sort of "dreaming" in a way that they are in a strange land made of creativity and HOORAY that they have no control over... LoZ games just capitalize on the dream aspect of gaming (is that why they are so awesome?:D). That also ties in to Satsy's point about how the dream theory wouldn't support another Link showing up in the WW universe a century later (though perhaps Link could still be the dreamer if the WW universe is a real place in the game's "reality" and the two different Links have different dreams about dreamworld versions of that place at different times).
 

Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
Did you ever have similar dreams several days in a row, or sometimes months or years apart? A certain Leitmotif that creeps back into your dreams again and again, perhaps based on a situation in your real life, or just based on someone you know? That could be an explanation for the similarities between some games: It's the same dreamer, and variations of the same dream.

A huge thanks to February Eve for finding the post I was talking about. Seems like my thread indeed got merged, with this one. Once again, Spoiler Warning for Link's Awakening.
 
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Xixor

Warrior of the Past
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Location
Texas
Dude. That's awesome.

I never noticed that, but most Zelda titles begin with Link asleep! That doesn't explain away the things that happen before though... I've also found that I love the story lines that start with Link waking up in a completely unknown place. I consider that to be true Zelda gamestyle (OoA, OoS, PH, LA...) I just wish there were more like them.
 

DuckNoises

Gone (Wind) Fishin'
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
Montreal, QC, Canada
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Originally Posted by insanity76
And I haven't played it, but I've read a few times on the forum that Link's Awakening is either confirmed or widely considered to be a dream. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)

I also haven't played it, but I'm fairly certain this is confirmed. (Who's dream it was appears to be a matter of some debate.)

As one who's played Link's Awakening many times, I'd say that conclusion is a bit of a simplification. The ending's much more complicated than many give it credit for (particularly the secret ending). You should play it, Locke; I'd imagine it would be one you'd really appreciate.
 

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