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Jump Button?

Do you want a jump button in Zelda Wii

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Z

Zangetsu

Guest
I would like to see a Roc's feather of some sort, just to see what is would be like to have Link jump in a 3D environment and to see what kind of puzzles they could do with it.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Yeah, all these moves you mentioned are impossible to perform in real life. But when you execute these commands in the game, none of then feel unrealistic.
It's like in the movies: somethings don't feel like impossible, despite a more rational analisys confirming it's "impossibility".

Well, I agree the the jumps you make in the game don't feel unrealistic when you're playing, the fit in the game. What does feel unrealistic is that I can only jump when I Z-target an enemy. I can (IRL!) jump up a three foot high ledge--so somebody please tell me how it is going to be unrealistic if Link (who can do backflips with a sword in his hand!) can jump a few feet in the air. It would feel just fine--and he does not need a stupid Roc's Feather to do it!!

If there is a wasted button in Zelda games it's the moronic roll button.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
thats what bugs me, young gamers have to realize we are entering a new phase of gaming. one without controllers. for some time now we have been trying to get rid of the controller completely! and suddenly we are beginning to do just that. but some people want to throw progress... all that progress away by keeping that one simple button. isen't anybody else tired of pressing A??? I would rather jump in real life to make Link jump then press a single button. WE HAVE MOTION PLUS!!!

Young gamers have to realize we're entering a new phase of gaming without controllers? lol. That's ridiculous. First of all, I'm older than you, so this is not about age. If it even is about age, it would be the younger Wii generation gamers that would be on your side in all this. I've been pressing A for nearly two decades and I'm not tired of it. Why should I be? It works. It's not even about tradition; It's about practicality and reason.
"Getting rid of the controller" and replacing it with semi-functional motion controls is not progress. Buttons work. They're reliable. If you would rather jump in real life to make Link jump, you are not a gamer. Games are about pressing buttons and moving control sticks. Sports are about jumping and moving around irl. We'll see how some of these Wii MotionPlus games turn out, but so far, the Wii's motion controls have mostly been gimmicky and unreliable.

And for the record, I don't really care whether or not they add a jump button. If they don't, it'll be fine. If they do, and do it right, it could add depth to the gameplay. What it comes down to is how well they do whatever it is they end up doing.


As for the 'moronic roll button'.. i do feel i must defend my beloved rolling off a ledge to jump slightly farther than normal.. lol
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Location
Brasil
Well, I agree the the jumps you make in the game don't feel unrealistic when you're playing, the fit in the game. What does feel unrealistic is that I can only jump when I Z-target an enemy. I can (IRL!) jump up a three foot high ledge--so somebody please tell me how it is going to be unrealistic if Link (who can do backflips with a sword in his hand!) can jump a few feet in the air. It would feel just fine--and he does not need a stupid Roc's Feather to do it!!

If there is a wasted button in Zelda games it's the moronic roll button.

Oh, you had a good point with Link being able to jump in Z-Target and not outside of it! It does make no sense!

The roll button was really useful for me in the last battle agains Ganon in OoT! xD
 

Raven

Former Hylian Knight
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Halifax
Young gamers have to realize we're entering a new phase of gaming without controllers? lol. That's ridiculous. First of all, I'm older than you, so this is not about age. If it even is about age, it would be the younger Wii generation gamers that would be on your side in all this. I've been pressing A for nearly two decades and I'm not tired of it. Why should I be? It works. It's not even about tradition; It's about practicality and reason.
"Getting rid of the controller" and replacing it with semi-functional motion controls is not progress. Buttons work. They're reliable. If you would rather jump in real life to make Link jump, you are not a gamer. Games are about pressing buttons and moving control sticks. Sports are about jumping and moving around irl. We'll see how some of these Wii MotionPlus games turn out, but so far, the Wii's motion controls have mostly been gimmicky and unreliable.

1. yes that is what i said, young gamers aren't fully aware of the direction video games are headed in. soon motion sensing will be incorporated into virtual reality so that games will be truly interactive. We have Wii Motion Plus, PS3 is getting a motion sensor, and XBOX has project Natal. look it up.

2. you said "I'm older than you" and then you say this isn't about age. that's a contradiction if i ever heard one.

3. That's what I was trying to say.

4. you've been pressing A for 20 years and your still not tired of it? :clap: no offense but i feel bad for you.

5. you think there is practicality and reason behind pressing the A button?! It seems like the most senseless thing ever (Pokemon is a good example).

6. if that's not progress i don't know what is. spending billions to develop new technologies and incorporate that into the gaming industry? naw that couldn't be progress.

7. am i supposed to take offense to that last statement? not a real gamer? ok bud, nice try.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
"Getting rid of the controller" and replacing it with semi-functional motion controls is not progress. Buttons work. They're reliable. If you would rather jump in real life to make Link jump, you are not a gamer. Games are about pressing buttons and moving control sticks. Sports are about jumping and moving around irl. We'll see how some of these Wii MotionPlus games turn out, but so far, the Wii's motion controls have mostly been gimmicky and unreliable.

"Buttons work", you say. And I agree, but that does not mean motion controls are somehow not gaming. That's silly. Do you really think that the motion controls detract from, say, SMG or NSMB Wii? I think they really added a nice touch to those games. And the aiming mechanism in games like Twilight Princess or the Wii version of Metroid Prime...brilliant. I never want to go back. If you're too self conscious or lazy to waggle, well, I am glad Nintendo is going to ignore you and not spoil it for the rest of us.
 

TVTMaster

Guy What's Angry Now
Joined
May 15, 2009
Location
It's a secret to everybody.
When it comes to motion controls in traditional games, I really only expect two things- a pointer for the screen (for projectile weapons and tippi/navi functionality), and waggle on remote and nunchuck that basically serve the purpose of extra button inputs.

In reference to whether or not a jump button would hurt Zelda, I suggest you all take a look at Okami- you get a rather high jump right from the start, and the game's a jewel of Zelda gameplay applied to new ideas. It's totally a Zelda in another skin, battle system aside. The jump button can work easily for Zelda- it'll at least silence the "why can't Link get up on this little ledge" things when levels are designed with jump capability in mind.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
2. you said "I'm older than you" and then you say this isn't about age. that's a contradiction if i ever heard one.
The point was that I disagree with you, even though I'm not younger than you like you seemed to think would be the explanation of my disagreement.

4. you've been pressing A for 20 years and your still not tired of it? :clap: no offense but i feel bad for you.
5. you think there is practicality and reason behind pressing the A button?! It seems like the most senseless thing ever (Pokemon is a good example).
Why feel bad for me? You're the one who's not getting what he wants. Of course there's reason behind buttons. The reason? They work. The point of a controller is efficiently translating a decision on the gamer's part to an action within the game, and the simplest and most effective means is through a button. Twilight Princess's replacing the B button with shaking the Wii remote worked, but with a tiny amount of lag and was just gimmicky. The wii remote has too few buttons, and just barely makes up for that fact by having motion controls.


And Jupiter, I'm on your side, bud. I think you may have misunderstood me. I didn't say motion controls aren't gaming. I said if someone wants to actually jump instead of pressing a button or at the very least doing something with their hands/fingers, then maybe gaming isn't for that person. I love the aiming in Twilight Princess (which, for the record, has nothing to do with the accelerometer). And of course I enjoy the motion controls in games that use them well, like SMG (haven't played NSMB Wii yet, looking forward to it).
I may have overstated the sort of anti-motion control statement a bit; You have to understand I was responding to someone who was talking about such a ridiculous concept as getting rid of the controller.


One random other example vaguely having to do with my stance on the motion controls thing: Mario Kart Wii. Nunchuk or GCN controller > Wii Wheel. By a long shot. The motion controls have their place, but not everywhere.
 
S

Seanileus

Guest
If Nintendo makes another Zelda game with a jump button, they'll make it work.
 

CZG

Joined
Dec 16, 2009
New things are not always better. Advance technology is not always improvement. Fact.

Everybody that is truely happy with wii remote controls are incredibly easyly satisfied.
It's a first generation motion thing, and it's not as cood as the commercials would like you to think.
Maybe they can convince me on the wii-3 or wii-2020 or something, but not yet.

Of course these new Nintendo things like the wii-remote and the DS stylus controls are entertaining, but inferior by far to the joysticks and d-buttons we had before. And because they changed their games to fit the new styles, it seems to work fairly good. Like Spirit Trcks is a fun game, I like it. But if it would be as hard as the early games, most of the people would not beat the game, simply because the controls don't allow it. I could never finish LoZ with a stylus, or beat AoL with motion controls. They are simply not accurate and advance enough to capture all the details of your movements.

I'd love to play Super Mario Kart (the first on on the SNES) with a motion control, just to showthe world how bad it is.
I don't even want to see Mario Kart after MK64 and MK-DD, those were the most dissapointing games I've seen in my life. I'd rather play the CD-i games, ...

I don't consider myself to be a real gamer. I don't chew on everthing. In fact I play almost nothing.
I like Zelda and a bunch of other titles, not even full series. As a occasional gamer, which I have been for over 20 years now, I know failure when I see it. Simply because I'm no 'hardcore' gamer, I can tell if the controls are accepable. Good gamers who play a lot of everthing have no trouble getting used to everything, even crappy controls. Well, not me. I am very picky. In fact, I'm very picky with everything.
I would have seen about 300 movies in my life, which is just a guess, but you'll get the picture...
Of course, watching a movie seemed to be a good thing to do at that moment, it's usually raining and playing board games like monopoly get old too. So watching a movie can be entertaining.
But, if you would ask me to name 10 movies that I thought were good, I'll fail on that. I hope to hit 5 of them..

While I admire their brave attempt to make videogaming a bit more active, they are not yet at that point where it can truly compete with button controls. I don't like Pokemon much, the whole game is way too slow, you have to confirm everthing that happens about three times.

Character A does poison attack, Character A hits Character B, Character B takes damage, Character A's attack also did poison, Character B suffers from poison effect. Character B's hit points are decreased, Now its Character B's turn...

How would motion controls improve this? Is there any better way to skip this as fast as possible, that just bashing the 'A' button? Would you rather like to swing your arm around for each message? Oh man....
Of course, throwing in your pokemon ball into the battlefield with a nice swing of the right arm sounds promising, but what happens next? I doubt I actually want to have that question awnsered.

Buttons are good for these reason. First they work, that has been proven over the last decades. But more importantly, you can do things you can't do in real life. That what makes games so cool, I think at least.

Motion controls can't combine realism with imagination. When I'd fire an arrow from a bow in real life, there is a certain moment where I release the arrow. Doing this will result in dropping the remote on the ground. What you do in Zelda for example, is just holding your arms in unlogical positions, in terms of entertainment, that is.

Moving your wii-remote around your wrist and shake it for a bit does not give me a feeling of holding a sword.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks it does should go outside for once and try to stay in touch with real life a bit more.
Get an extra hobby, go out and play a real life sport for once.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
And Jupiter, I'm on your side, bud. I think you may have misunderstood me. I didn't say motion controls aren't gaming. I said if someone wants to actually jump instead of pressing a button or at the very least doing something with their hands/fingers, then maybe gaming isn't for that person. I love the aiming in Twilight Princess (which, for the record, has nothing to do with the accelerometer). And of course I enjoy the motion controls in games that use them well, like SMG (haven't played NSMB Wii yet, looking forward to it).
I may have overstated the sort of anti-motion control statement a bit; You have to understand I was responding to someone who was talking about such a ridiculous concept as getting rid of the controller.


One random other example vaguely having to do with my stance on the motion controls thing: Mario Kart Wii. Nunchuk or GCN controller > Wii Wheel. By a long shot. The motion controls have their place, but not everywhere.

Ok, fair enough, looks like I misunderstood you. I agree emphatically that the Wiimote needs more buttons. I think their philosophy when they designed it was familiarity + simplicity = accessibility. And I think they were right. Just look at the Wiimote, it hardly has the style of a video game controller. It does not have the red, yellow, green, blue buttons or the sleek form fitting grip or futuristic shape that controllers have had for a long time now. They wanted it to be comfortable and non-threatening to people who never played games before. So they also put very few buttons on it. In fact, notice how much it looks like an Apple product? It's got the clean white case and a single big "A" button on the top of it. They made it look like a super simple remote control designed by Apple.

I'm not critisizing Nintendo, I am praising them. It worked. They made something newbie gamers were not afraid of and that anybody could pick up and figure out. It's been a huge success.

But the result for gamers is that there is a little bit of awkwardness. Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Wiimote+ Nunchuk control scheme--it is my favorite control scheme to date, not only for the motion controls, but because of the comfort and function that comes from splitting the control in two and holding the two parts in separate hands. But it's not perfect: It's a little awkward when a game that requires more buttons than just the "A" button has to map something to the D-pad. It's a little awkward when you have to stretch your thumb backward to reach down to the "1" or "2" button. It's a little awkward when you have to use the tiny little "+" or "-" buttons for some function. My guess is that now that they have attracted an expanded market, they design the controller in a way that is more ergonomic for traditional gaming when the next system comes out.

@CZG

"Moving your wii-remote around your wrist and shake it for a bit does not give me a feeling of holding a sword.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks it does should go outside for once and try to stay in touch with real life a bit more."


I think this mocking statement of yours is off base. Swinging the Wiimote does give me the sensation of swinging a sword. Just like pointing the Wiimote to shoot in Metroid Prime gives me the sensation of shooting an arm cannon. It's not as if I were doing these things for real, but that's not the point. The point is to immerse you in the gaming experience. Just like having the "Rumble Pack" on the N64 immersed you in games by making you feel a bit of danger when it began to shake. Just like realistic graphics or game play immerses you in games. I am really excited for Zelda Wii and how it will use Motion+. I agree with you that if they watter down games to fit in motion controls then that is a loss, but look at TP. It was not watered down in terms of combat, it had the most combat of any 3D Zelda to date (yes the bosses were way too ease, but that had nothing to do with motion controls). Look at NSMB Wii, it's a pretty hard game (and in some parts the motion controls add an extra layer of dificulty--in a good way!).

I don't play games to "stay in touch with real life" I play for fun and for fantasy. I think well executed motion controls help immerse me in the fantasy, and, in terms of gameplay, add to the fun. It's a matter of getting the right mix of accurate, sensitive, and useful motion controls and button play. And I have no doubt that motion controls are here to stay (PS3 wand, Natal...) and that as the next consoles start rolling out the Wii is going to feel increasingly old fashioned.
 

Tom

Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Location
São Paulo
When it comes to motion controls in traditional games, I really only expect two things- a pointer for the screen (for projectile weapons and tippi/navi functionality), and waggle on remote and nunchuck that basically serve the purpose of extra button inputs.

I don't expect much either, and no, I don't think a "jump" button would turn out to be anyhow useful (plus the addition of this new feature would only delay the areas creation, since the jumping button can bring many problems and possible glitches to many spaces).
Unnecessary, I'd say.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Maybe Rocs cape but thats it.

Bah! Haxon you make no sense. Why would you have a jump with a Roc's Cape or a Roc's Feather or a Roc's anything but not have it otherwise???? Why? Why? Why in the dear Lord's name would you need an item to jump.

I am going to put down my laptop and jump up and down--without an item!--just to prove to you all how crazy the idea of needing a Roc's Feather is to jump! Off I go...

Boing-boing-boing!
 

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